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Let's compare the other Japanese sports car sales numbers for contrast, you cant compare turbo foreign car sales in the early 90s to 25 years later. Found these on the american online. Who cares how many mkvs sell anyways? They have nothing to do with any form of a Toyota product whatsoever.
I'm not sure what your point is??? Is it that the MKIV was outsold by all those other cars as well? BTW, the MKIV Supra sales numbers include non-turbos (and likely the 300ZX and Mitsubishi 3000GT), which really were uncompetitive on a performance basis. As far as I'm concerned, the "Legacy" Supra, is a MKIV -TT, with 6 spd Getrag. The NA with only 220 hp was underpowered (also, weak 5-spd W58, 16" wheels/tires, small brakes, small diff) looks the part but is a bit like a V6 Mustang vs the GT350. It's my opinion only, but an automatic also doesn't belong in any sports car. This includes the Zupr4's 8-spd ZF and even Porsches PDK. This is a big negative for the new Corvette C8 as well. Row your own rules!!! It's a shame that three pedals are becoming rare. No doubt I'll receive tons of flames from owners of NA's and automatics. My apologies if you feel I insulted your car. As I said; "my opinion only". I also recognize that 6-spds are hard to find and an auto may have been what was available. To each his own.
 

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I was not proving a point my post was for some nuance. You cant compare a cars sales numbers in 2019 manufactured by bmw to a car made in 1993 made by toyota is all I'm saying. I dont know why people are hoping the mkv sales go badly. I dont care either way. It's not like the mkv doing poorly will make Toyota make a a better supra next time around. They never will make a real successor to the mkiv ever, they made that abundantly clear.
 

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iSPOOL
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I'm not sure what your point is??? Is it that the MKIV was outsold by all those other cars as well? BTW, the MKIV Supra sales numbers include non-turbos (and likely the 300ZX and Mitsubishi 3000GT), which really were uncompetitive on a performance basis. As far as I'm concerned, the "Legacy" Supra, is a MKIV -TT, with 6 spd Getrag. The NA with only 220 hp was underpowered (also, weak 5-spd W58, 16" wheels/tires, small brakes, small diff) looks the part but is a bit like a V6 Mustang vs the GT350. It's my opinion only, but an automatic also doesn't belong in any sports car. This includes the Zupr4's 8-spd ZF and even Porsches PDK. This is a big negative for the new Corvette C8 as well. Row your own rules!!! It's a shame that three pedals are becoming rare. No doubt I'll receive tons of flames from owners of NA's and automatics. My apologies if you feel I insulted your car. As I said; "my opinion only". I also recognize that 6-spds are hard to find and an auto may have been what was available. To each his own.

"The 220-hp, premium-fuel, DOHC inline-six and five-speed are shared with the Lexus SC300, yet that car and the Supra seem unrelated. The Lexus feels like a luxury car, albeit an exceptionally agile one. The Supra feels like an athlete.

It moves like one, too. Acceleration is just a notch below supercar times—0 to 60 takes 6.2 seconds, the quarter-mile comes up in 14.8 seconds at 95 mph. Top speed is 140 mph."

"A notch below supercars times." Once again for its time the MKIV Supra, even in NA form, was solid.
Its ok to have an opinion, even if its wrong 😁.

No flaming, just some facts.
Manuals have poor sales, even in sports cars people aren't buying them.
Manuals cannot shift faster than autos or DCTs. If you prefer a slower car then thats your right lol.

The faster and quickest cars in the drag world aren't manuals, but rather power glides and autos.

The fastest laps put down at the Nürburgring aren't manuals but electric, hybrid, DCT, and automatic cars.

Modern automatics are superior in nearly every way which is why most companies have ditched manuals.
Opinion: I feel no more connected with or have more fun in my manual car than my auto car.
 

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I was not proving a point my post was for some nuance. You cant compare a cars sales numbers in 2019 manufactured by bmw to a car made in 1993 made by toyota is all I'm saying. I dont know why people are hoping the mkv sales go badly. I dont care either way. It's not like the mkv doing poorly will make Toyota make a a better supra next time around. They never will make a real successor to the mkiv ever, they made that abundantly clear.
Finally we agree almost 100%. My point about MKIV sales was that despite the car being a technical success, it was a commercial failure. Proof that building a great car won't necessarily translate into great profit. I share your skepticism about Toyota doing a true MKIV successor.
 

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"The 220-hp, premium-fuel, DOHC inline-six and five-speed are shared with the Lexus SC300, yet that car and the Supra seem unrelated. The Lexus feels like a luxury car, albeit an exceptionally agile one. The Supra feels like an athlete.

It moves like one, too. Acceleration is just a notch below supercar times—0 to 60 takes 6.2 seconds, the quarter-mile comes up in 14.8 seconds at 95 mph. Top speed is 140 mph."

"A notch below supercars times." Once again for its time the MKIV Supra, even in NA form, was solid.
Its ok to have an opinion, even if its wrong 😁.

No flaming, just some facts.
Manuals have poor sales, even in sports cars people aren't buying them.
Manuals cannot shift faster than autos or DCTs. If you prefer a slower car then thats your right lol.

The faster and quickest cars in the drag world aren't manuals, but rather power glides and autos.

The fastest laps put down at the Nürburgring aren't manuals but electric, hybrid, DCT, and automatic cars.

Modern automatics are superior in nearly every way which is why most companies have ditched manuals.
Opinion: I feel no more connected with or have more fun in my manual car than my auto car.
Shady, if a full second to a second and a half on 0-60 mph translates to "A notch below supercars times." then I stand corrected. Car and Driver tested the Supra TT at 4.6 seconds as well so the NA was already down 1.6 sec vs the Turbo. That said, 6.2 seconds is the best number I've ever seen for the TA. Most tests are about 6.8-6.9 sec. Then again the 4.6 sec 1993.5 TT number is also the best I've seen. Most were 4.9-5.2 sec. Anyway, I test drove a NA back in '94 and it felt slow.
Don't get me started on the demise of manual transmissions!!! The upside of owning a car with a 6-spd these days is that most car thieves will avoid it since they don't know how to drive one. No doubt DCT's shift faster than a manual. Essentially you have a manual transmission with a computer operating the clutch. There are also some pretty good true automatics (ie. ZF 8 speed) and some very fast shifting purpose built drag automatics. However, I doubt anyone would classify the stock A340E from the 1993.5-1998 MKIV TT (and NA) as either. The low stall makes it slow off the line and max power through it is limited to 400-500 rwhp depending on how long you want it to last and/or who you ask. There's got to be a reason why so many Supra's built for the strip have swapped out the stock unit for a TH400 or at least a built tranny. The A340E torque converter also has much higher parasitic losses vs. the 6-spd, so lower power to the wheels. Just based on reading Supra forums over the years, it seems that the 6-spd is considered more desirable, 6-spd cars sell for more and you see a lot of guys swapping out their automatics for 6-spds but not many the reverse unless they're building a drag car.
None of the above is why I prefer the 6-spd vs an automatic. My Supra is a 6-spd and so is the R8 Spyder. I just prefer shifting the gears myself. I like the feel of the shifter in my hand and knowing I can drop the clutch and burn out if and when I so desire. My racing days are over, so if I'm slow(er) only I will know. Now it's just about the joy of driving and I find a manual to be just more fun. I have a ZF 8 speed in my Cayenne (actually wife's car) and in Sport+ mode the shifts are super fast, at least as fast as I can shift a manual. It has paddle shifters but I run it almost 100% in automatic mode because it shifts smarter and faster than I can. It's almost as quick (0-60 and ¼ mile) as a stock MKIV TT and will pull 0.96 on the skidpad. Crazy for a 2 ton+ vehicle. Real nice ride, but the only real fun thing is the Sport Response button ("go-baby-go").
 

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iSPOOL
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Oh I know the stock A340E trans is pretty weak! I can't push my car full throttle through gears or I'll blow the trans again (on trans #3). I'm sitting at around 490rwhp right now, this trans has been going strong since 2016 but I learned how to apply the power to make it last. Its the only thing holding me back from pumping up the boost to hit to 600rwhp+. The power through gears is great since it doesn't have boost drop off. Just constant pulling! But I plan to go with the Grannas T56 6 Speed kit, newer billet BB 6766 turbo, GSC S1 camshafts, quick spool valve, and Pro Efi in hopes to hit my 750rwhp goal. Since we have two 1998s, I want to have a built Auto and a 6 speed Supra.
But the ATF built auto kit is amazing from what I've seen. A quick look at Pedros Baltic Supra can tell us all that built autos are too be feared.
 

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Don't hate on the automatics - even the A340. Mine does just fine at the stated power in my sig (and above, when I raise the boost). I actually tracked this car on road courses for 14 years and did quite well, thank you. Got a lot of double takes when other drivers would come to look at the car and see (1) me with white hair and (2) the auto. We (me and the MKIV) "retired" from that a couple of years ago.
One thing the manual will never do is carry boost through a shift. That matters a lot on a road course. The new automatics are even better.
A built transmission is much better when you go higher HP, but the auto is still the way to be faster.
BTW - the MKIV sales numbers were mostly down due to the dramatic shift in the value of the dollar/yen between design and production. The MKIV was "designed" to market at about $30K (USD), but the value of the dollar jumped a lot and the resulting price was a big problem. Ahh, what could have been!
 

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One thing the manual will never do is carry boost through a shift. That matters a lot on a road course. The new automatics are even better.
Not so fast. There are rev limiters called no lift to shift for manual trans cars. It goes like this:

1. Is car moving above x mph?
2. Is clutch pressed in?
3. Is tps above x percentage?

If so, engage rev limit at whatever RPM the tuner set it to. This allows you to keep your foot planted without overrevving the engine. I will give the caveat that if you're not "good" with using this system you can cause massive amounts of heat to go through your clutch. It does hold boost between shifts just fine, and it's actually a pretty awesome feature to have. I don't know how common it is in the Supra community, however.
 

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Modded mk4 spoiler, hre wheels, a body kit, and HID projector retrofit headlights? Seems like a strong effort;)
You know, I think the spoiler should have been a bit taller, it appears that it would obscure vision behind you. The car it came off of, the top of the spoiler was about in line with the roof, roughly. The new car the roof line versus the spoiler base might be a taller proportion.

That said, I really do think they missed a fantastic opportunity to make those the default lights. Going back to 1979, the Supra had four row tail lights... (in before someone posts, "but it's not a..whah whah whah" again, as if I'm unaware of what this car is.) I'd be a bit surprised if we don't start seeing aftermarket tails to resemble these "heritage edition" ones.
 

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IMO, Supra MKV had one job, one goal. Beat an aging GT-R. Shouldn't have been hard considering it was introduced as a super-car killer with 480hp in 2006, it broke the internet and all the hearts as it slayed everything in it's path. Ferrari, Porsche, Z06, ZR1, the Lamborghini all were slayed and left scrambling by this mythical beast from the east. They all came fighting back from the KO that was a GT-R. The impending response of the GT-R brought us to the hyper-cars and super-cars we have today. Thanks Nissan. That's all because of you. Heck go back several years before that Lexus with the GS400 back in 1998 punched all the automakers right between the eyes. The best BMW back then was a 282hp 4 door called the 535i. The GS400 killed that thing. The immediate result was the start of a HP war on super-sedans that right now is sitting at 750hp. Lexus started that. But they got scared. They backed out immediately out of the war they started. They chickened out and started making dull ____ after punching everyone in the face with the GS400. Like that one guy in the bar that starts the brawl and sits and watches everyone else start duking it out like Marty Mcfly in Back to the Future. The E39 M5 was the immediate response to the GS400. The E55AMG came right after. We even got a RS6 in 02 from that fight. Thanks Lexus. The market kept going while Toyota communist power policies and non-competing spirit took hold of them like a exorcist demon spirit that wont come out.

We see the second wave of performance cars that resulted from the first, Nissan stayed the same with the GT-R as the competition caught up quickly, and Toyota was nowhere to be found other than a dismal ISF and a LFA that took so long to come out the competition beat it while it was still cooking. Other makers joined the fight, Cadillac CTS-V and others eventually Like Jaguar XFR and Maserati Quattroporte And RS7 jumped in the sedan war with stellar examples of 4 door sports cars, Mercedes AMG expands their offerings in this space almost exclusively and a slew of M models come out. Ferrari, Porsche and Lambo jump ahead in strides with more and more aggressive spectacular track focused models with each iteration even the Stingray makes an appearance and spikes the fervor of Ford to release the stellar Ford GT and mustang's with actual track prowess instead of implied in the Boss 302. The camaro springs on the scene with actual competency and we have a genuine slew of affordable giant killers spurring on the supers like Ferrari, Porsche and now Mclaren and Lambo eventually to become something fierce and actually commit to staying on top with a fighting spirit. Ferrari gets the Nurburgring record with a 599XX, and then a FXX on slicks. ISF is discontinued. RCF is the most sporting car from Toyota.

With the third generation coming on the scene being fierce is not good enough, the car needs to have it all, no compromise anywhere is tolerated at the top and the giant killers at the bottom start following suit. Nissan has fallen behind. There are no new GT-R's though they see that their once giant slayer is now middle of the pack, and not polished enough even with a Nismo tune to bring it's level as high as it will go with the current chassis it still falls behind. Toyota is MIA somewhere mumbling rocking back and forth in the corner about fast priuses and lexuses. Ferrari, Porsche, Mclaren bring the trinity, We get ZR1's, 1LE's, GT350's and the Hellcats, we get Chargers, we get Trackhawks, Third gen CTS-V's with now AWD M5 and E63S's and even see a R8 get faster, Lambo sets the world record at the Nurburgring twice, after the 918 Weissach, seemingly the record was ping ponging from one Super to another almost monthly. We get the Aston Martin Vulcan and Zagato among V12 Vantage GT4's and Vanquishes. We got third gen Panamera Turbo S hybrids, Even got a zinger of a Alfa Romeo Guila Quadrifolio. We get XFRS, Project 8 XE sets 4 door Nurb record, and a SVR F Type from Jaguar with new Gran Turismo and Levante GTS from Maserati, and new turbo V8 everything from everyone but Lexus. Why? Because turbo cars don't meet emissions Toyota said.

We are now in the current 4th generation with a new Ford GT comes back as a stunner, Supers like the 720S and Senna are hyper car level, GT-R is still around with incremental improvements, CTS-V is discontinued, Jaguar XFRS is discontinued, The RS6 Avant comes back, at the same level as before, Charger Hellcat is a widebody, Challenger Hellcat has a Red Eye widebody making 840hp, The C8 is mid engine as a 500hp base model, we are baited with a 1000hp Ferrari SF90, AMG Project one, Aston Martin Valkarie, Lotus Evija 2000hp and a Rimac V.2. Tesla Roadster and look who's back! TOYOTA? With a sports car? What is this sorcery? You decided after all of that to come out with a "pure sports car" (quoting you Toyota) and what does it compete with?! NOTHING. ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. It not only does NOT compete with nothing, it doesn't even compete with the cars that were in the running back when the Supra A80 went on sale in 1993 such as: Dodge Viper GTS-450hp, ZR1 (2nd gen) 385hp. Porsche 911 Turbo S (933) 424hp. Ferrari 512 TR- 422hp Lotus Esprit Turbo.

Which brings me to my helluva long winded point. You know those autistic haughty trolls that come up to you when you are in a A80 Turbo, that out of the blue sky come up to you unprovoked and tell you how their cousins uncle stepbrother sisters boyfriends dad has a civic that will smoke you? They don't even know what tune your car is in or how fast it is? Their retarded brains actually think you care or would even waste your time and gas proving it to them? Yes? Thats Toyota. In their bubble of their own slime, they are still in 1993 and no one has moved on. They are making this car as to compete with the A80 as if its 1993 and there was a dead response to the A80 and no one bested it. Except that not only has the world moved on so far past that, that Toyota delusional autistic emo passive aggressive foray into sports are met by deadpan stares and blank expressions of the world trying to figure out ___they are mentally doing right now. They benchmark this car against the only sports car out right now being completely held back because it will outshine other Porsche products for the price. Cayman. THAT is your target?!

Had it hit it's mark, (beat the GT-R) it would actually be right where it should be with the new C8. It would compare. It would have won. We (probably) would have received it BMW livery nonetheless. The other thing, although the FT-1 was a spectacular concept, when they mass produced the FT-1 body on a Z4 chassis, they should have seen it didn't have the right proportions and made the decision to keep the body with the existing design they had for the Supra that fit that body IMO. This conversion was worse than the LFA second concept to the production version. (horrendous conversion. That second silver coupe and red convertible concept was the most beautiful thing Toyota has ever penned BTW) But even the LFA showed the unwillingness to make that __ mid engined even though it was styled specifically for it. You can tell they knew it was supposed to be mid-engined. Chicken ___ decision makers killed the idea and killed the progress, didn't commit, had to start over because the competition was moving so fiercely in that day, It would have delivered a dead baby if it released it then. The Lamborghini Murcilago SV was the car to beat then. They knew it was nowhere near that. It was still a neat car, overpriced, but neat and special but 10 yrs behind.

More than anything Toyota needs to break the notion in their head that horsepower costs exponential money. the Hellcat has proven that wrong as wrong can possibly be coming in at the same price. The C8 proved you can make super-car performance on a cost for the same price. The ZL1- 1LE proved sophisticated track performance has little to do with price. The 600LT proved you don't have to necessarily beat your opponent to beat him. Just be better than them overall. and the biggest lie that Toyota has said, sports cars don't make money or profitable. Tell that to Porsche heck even Ford Mustang liars. Toyota you want to know why the Ford Mustang is better? Because it is 100% FORD, and they SHOW UP every year, year after year getting better each time while your thumbs are stuck up _. When the Sprinter Trueno, Century, Cressida, Trecel, Matrix, Solara, Celica, Celica GT-4, TC, Supra TT, MR2 T, SC, Chaser, Soarer, Aristo, and MRS are discontinued, when nothing else is for sale, you could always get a Mustang. I'm not a mustang guy. But there always there. You have been absent with no follow through for DECADES. When the market firmly responds to your measly first attempt at whatever, the proper response is to keep coming back better. (I.E. Porsche= most profitable car company btw) What is the Toyota way? Discontinue it; it no longer is relevant. Why should we buy your Supra? It won't be around longer than one version. Your track record shows you are the biggest quitters in the industry. Any sign of competing is met with indifference then quitting and giving up.

Sprinter Trueno - Gave up sports cars and quit due to competition. Cressida - gave up sports sedans and quit due to competition. Trecel - gave up sports coupes and quit due to competition. Matrix - gave up sports sedans and quit due to competition. Solara - gave up sports coupes and quit due to competition. Chaser - gave up sports sedans and quit due to competition. SC400/430- Gave up sports coupes and quit due to competition. GS400 - gave up sports sedans and quit due to competition. MR2 Turbo- Gave up sports cars and quit due to competition. Celica GT4 - Gave up rally cars and quit due to competition. A80Supra - Gave up GT cars and quit due to competition. MRS - Gave up sports cars and quit due to competition. ISF- Gave up and quit due to competition. Lemans 1998- gave up racing and quit due to competition. F1- gave up racing and quit due to competition. Lemans today- kept going due to no competition; Until competition returns you then will quit and give up on it. RCF, GSF, LCF- I guarantee you will quit and give up due to competition. SUPRA A90- Quit and gave up due to competition and probably blame it on the "market wont support sports cars" cliche as Porsche makes nothing but PROFITABLE sports cars, thrives in this economy, and the Mustang has sold more sports cars than all your sports vehicles combined. We have more sporty cars today than ever in history. The block is only in your mind Toyota (Akio Toyoda). The problem isn't the market. It's not your competition. It's not the buyers. Its not what the reviews or the internet says about your products. When you point at something else you have three fingers pointing back at you. Its YOU. I'm out.
 

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Blue Thunder
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DAYUM SUPRAT !!! You hit the nail on EVERY point !!! Toyoda needs to READ your post !!! (y)(y)(y)
 

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Hardcore Night Warrior
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^LRWRA: Long Read, Would Read Again. Interesting statement that you posited with Lexus bringing out the sedan wars. I never considered that. Play it safe, keep making money = Toyota.
Car related food for thought I've recently heard and will paraphrase "Car makers don't make sports cars when the market is down, but if it does the right things, then it can be sucesssful."- Carroll Shelby

" Car enthusiasts want what they don't have; and the only thing that they value more than what they can't have is having what they once had but lost,".
-YouTube RCR
 

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iSPOOL
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IMO, Supra MKV had one job, one goal. Beat an aging GT-R. Shouldn't have been hard considering it was introduced as a super-car killer with 480hp in 2006, it broke the internet and all the hearts as it slayed everything in it's path. Ferrari, Porsche, Z06, ZR1, the Lamborghini all were slayed and left scrambling by this mythical beast from the east. They all came fighting back from the KO that was a GT-R. The impending response of the GT-R brought us to the hyper-cars and super-cars we have today. Thanks Nissan. That's all because of you. Heck go back several years before that Lexus with the GS400 back in 1998 punched all the automakers right between the eyes. The best BMW back then was a 262hp 4 door called the 540i. The GS400 killed that thing. The immediate result was the start of a HP war on super-sedans that right now is sitting at 750hp. Lexus started that. But they got scared. They backed out immediately out of the war they started. They chickened out and started making dull ____ after punching everyone in the face with the GS400. Like that one guy in the bar that starts the brawl and sits and watches everyone else start duking it out like Marty Mcfly in Back to the Future. The E39 M5 was the immediate response to the GS400. The E55AMG came right after. We even got a RS6 in 02 from that fight. Thanks Lexus. The market kept going while Toyota communist power policies and non-competing spirit took hold of them like a exorcist demon spirit that wont come out.

We see the second wave of performance cars that resulted from the first, Nissan stayed the same with the GT-R as the competition caught up quickly, and Toyota was nowhere to be found other than a dismal ISF and a LFA that took so long to come out the competition beat it while it was still cooking. Other makers joined the fight, Cadillac CTS-V and others eventually Like Jaguar XFR and Maserati Quattroporte And RS7 jumped in the sedan war with stellar examples of 4 door sports cars, Mercedes AMG expands their offerings in this space almost exclusively and a slew of M models come out. Ferrari, Porsche and Lambo jump ahead in strides with more and more aggressive spectacular track focused models with each iteration even the Stingray makes an appearance and spikes the fervor of Ford to release the stellar Ford GT and mustang's with actual track prowess instead of implied in the Boss 302. The camaro springs on the scene with actual competency and we have a genuine slew of affordable giant killers spurring on the supers like Ferrari, Porsche and now Mclaren and Lambo eventually to become something fierce and actually commit to staying on top with a fighting spirit. Ferrari gets the Nurburgring record with a 599XX, and then a FXX on slicks. ISF is discontinued. RCF is the most sporting car from Toyota.

With the third generation coming on the scene being fierce is not good enough, the car needs to have it all, no compromise anywhere is tolerated at the top and the giant killers at the bottom start following suit. Nissan has fallen behind. There are no new GT-R's though they see that their once giant slayer is now middle of the pack, and not polished enough even with a Nismo tune to bring it's level as high as it will go with the current chassis it still falls behind. Toyota is MIA somewhere mumbling rocking back and forth in the corner about fast priuses and lexuses. Ferrari, Porsche, Mclaren bring the trinity, We get ZR1's, 1LE's, GT350's and the Hellcats, we get Chargers, we get Trackhawks, Third gen CTS-V's with now AWD M5 and E63S's and even see a R8 get faster, Lambo sets the world record at the Nurburgring twice, after the 918 Weissach, seemingly the record was ping ponging from one Super to another almost monthly. We get the Aston Martin Vulcan and Zagato among V12 Vantage GT4's and Vanquishes. We got third gen Panamera Turbo S hybrids, Even got a zinger of a Alfa Romeo Guila Quadrifolio. We get XFRS, Project 8 XE sets 4 door Nurb record, and a SVR F Type from Jaguar with new Gran Turismo and Levante GTS from Maserati, and new turbo V8 everything from everyone but Lexus. Why? Because turbo cars don't meet emissions Toyota said.

We are now in the current 4th generation with a new Ford GT comes back as a stunner, Supers like the 720S and Senna are hyper car level, GT-R is still around with incremental improvements, CTS-V is discontinued, Jaguar XFRS is discontinued, The RS6 Avant comes back, at the same level as before, Charger Hellcat is a widebody, Challenger Hellcat has a Red Eye widebody making 840hp, The C8 is mid engine as a 500hp base model, we are baited with a 1000hp Ferrari SF90, AMG Project one, Aston Martin Valkarie, Lotus Evija 2000hp and a Rimac V.2. Tesla Roadster and look who's back! TOYOTA? With a sports car? What is this sorcery? You decided after all of that to come out with a "pure sports car" (quoting you Toyota) and what does it compete with?! NOTHING. ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. It not only does NOT compete with nothing, it doesn't even compete with the cars that were in the running back when the Supra A80 went on sale in 1993 such as: Dodge Viper GTS-450hp, ZR1 (2nd gen) 385hp. Porsche 911 Turbo S (933) 424hp. Ferrari 512 TR- 422hp Lotus Esprit Turbo.

Which brings me to my helluva long winded point. You know those autistic haughty trolls that come up to you when you are in a A80 Turbo, that out of the blue sky come up to you unprovoked and tell you how their cousins uncle stepbrother sisters boyfriends dad has a civic that will smoke you? They don't even know what tune your car is in or how fast it is? Their retarded brains actually think you care or would even waste your time and gas proving it to them? Yes? Thats Toyota. In their bubble of their own slime, they are still in 1993 and no one has moved on. They are making this car as to compete with the A80 as if its 1993 and there was a dead response to the A80 and no one bested it. Except that not only has the world moved on so far past that, that Toyota delusional autistic emo passive aggressive foray into sports are met by deadpan stares and blank expressions of the world trying to figure out ___they are mentally doing right now. They benchmark this car against the only sports car out right now being completely held back because it will outshine other Porsche products for the price. Cayman. THAT is your target?!

Had it hit it's mark, (beat the GT-R) it would actually be right where it should be with the new C8. It would compare. It would have won. We (probably) would have received it BMW livery nonetheless. The other thing, although the FT-1 was a spectacular concept, when they mass produced the FT-1 body on a Z4 chassis, they should have seen it didn't have the right proportions and made the decision to keep the body with the existing design they had for the Supra that fit that body IMO. This conversion was worse than the LFA second concept to the production version. (horrendous conversion. That second silver coupe and red convertible concept was the most beautiful thing Toyota has ever penned BTW) But even the LFA showed the unwillingness to make that __ mid engined even though it was styled specifically for it. You can tell they knew it was supposed to be mid-engined. Chicken ___ decision makers killed the idea and killed the progress, didn't commit, had to start over because the competition was moving so fiercely in that day, It would have delivered a dead baby if it released it then. The Lamborghini Murcilago SV was the car to beat then. They knew it was nowhere near that. It was still a neat car, overpriced, but neat and special but 10 yrs behind.

More than anything Toyota needs to break the notion in their head that horsepower costs exponential money. the Hellcat has proven that wrong as wrong can possibly be coming in at the same price. The C8 proved you can make super-car performance on a cost for the same price. The ZL1- 1LE proved sophisticated track performance has little to do with price. The 600LT proved you don't have to necessarily beat your opponent to beat him. Just be better than them overall. and the biggest lie that Toyota has said, sports cars don't make money or profitable. Tell that to Porsche heck even Ford Mustang liars. Toyota you want to know why the Ford Mustang is better? Because it is 100% FORD, and they SHOW UP every year, year after year getting better each time while your thumbs are stuck up _. When the Sprinter Trueno, Century, Cressida, Trecel, Matrix, Solara, Celica, Celica GT-4, TC, Supra TT, MR2 T, SC, Chaser, Soarer, Aristo, and MRS are discontinued, when nothing else is for sale, you could always get a Mustang. I'm not a mustang guy. But there always there. You have been absent with no follow through for DECADES. When the market firmly responds to your measly first attempt at whatever, the proper response is to keep coming back better. (I.E. Porsche= most profitable car company btw) What is the Toyota way? Discontinue it; it no longer is relevant. Why should we buy your Supra? It won't be around longer than one version. Your track record shows you are the biggest quitters in the industry. Any sign of competing is met with indifference then quitting and giving up.

Sprinter Trueno - Gave up sports cars and quit due to competition. Cressida - gave up sports sedans and quit due to competition. Trecel - gave up sports coupes and quit due to competition. Matrix - gave up sports sedans and quit due to competition. Solara - gave up sports coupes and quit due to competition. Chaser - gave up sports sedans and quit due to competition. SC400/430- Gave up sports coupes and quit due to competition. GS400 - gave up sports sedans and quit due to competition. MR2 Turbo- Gave up sports cars and quit due to competition. Celica GT4 - Gave up rally cars and quit due to competition. A80Supra - Gave up GT cars and quit due to competition. MRS - Gave up sports cars and quit due to competition. ISF- Gave up and quit due to competition. Lemans 1998- gave up racing and quit due to competition. F1- gave up racing and quit due to competition. Lemans today- kept going due to no competition; Until competition returns you then will quit and give up on it. RCF, GSF, LCF- I guarantee you will quit and give up due to competition. SUPRA A90- Quit and gave up due to competition and probably blame it on the "market wont support sports cars" cliche as Porsche makes nothing but PROFITABLE sports cars, thrives in this economy, and the Mustang has sold more sports cars than all your sports vehicles combined. We have more sporty cars today than ever in history. The block is only in your mind Toyota (Akio Toyoda). The problem isn't the market. It's not your competition. It's not the buyers. Its not what the reviews or the internet says about your products. When you point at something else you have three fingers pointing back at you. Its YOU. I'm out.
Excellent. Read every word and conveyed some of the same points myself. Seeing how far the competition has come over the years makes me envious because Toyota should have sold out for the Supra revival. Rather they made a vehicle that's slightly better than its 27 year old predecessor...I feel no pride in the BMW they presented.

Take this Skyline GTR video. I haven't ever owned a Nissan let alone a GTR but I get a sense of heritage and pride they have for their champion car:
 

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I have been thinking a lot, you know what would make a fool out of Toyota right now? For Nissan to blindside the entire sports car market with a overdue Mike Tyson left hook GT-R replacement. It would KO everyone and make the 2007 scramble happen again ushering in Ultra Hyper Exotics that only exist because of it. It would be AWD, lighter, much smaller and 700HP+ with active aero. Nobody but me would see that coming. If they throw some gentle curves on it this time with the hard angles making it a looker maybe they will even sell a bunch of them. I'm down. I'd even buy it. I dont like the current GT-R but I liked the much smaller older ones. I might be in the minority but the R33 GT-R Nismo 400R was my favorite Nissan of all time in looks and performance. Revive that nameplate Nissan, revive that look but update it. I'm sure I am not the only one down and ready to buy it. Show these clowns at Toyota how to do sports cars yet again. Maybe they might consider making a proper A100 Supra then. 100% Toyota with parts blended into a new sporty Toyota lineup. Good day gentlemen.
 

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It's not just the engine that everyone is pissed about. It's that the car is completely BMW except for the Toyota badges. Imagine if the new Corvette was a rebadged m3, you'd have the same hate.
 
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