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The world said it was underpowered, so we gave it THIRTY WHOPPING BIG ASS HORSES MORE FROM A BIGGER VERSION OF THE SAME SHITTY ENGINE! WOOO!
Who the fuck wants a sports car that gets smoked (straightline and roadcourse) by V6 Camrys and Hybrid Rav4's? I don't.
It's the stupidest goddamn thing. Toyota makes a sad turd of a sports car and then wonders why people don't buy it, then declare the sports car dead because they're not selling. Ugh.
 
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Really depends on how fun it is to drive. I've been driving a Honda Beat around for the last week, and have a blast doing it. Costs under $9 to fill up with 93, revs out to 10k with the standalone, and it weighs about 1600 lbs. Sure, it has like 60 HP, but man is it a fun little car to 'beat' around town in.
 

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Really depends on how fun it is to drive. I've been driving a Honda Beat around for the last week, and have a blast doing it. Costs under $9 to fill up with 93, revs out to 10k with the standalone, and it weighs about 1600 lbs. Sure, it has like 60 HP, but man is it a fun little car to 'beat' around town in.
The Beat is a cool car. So is the Cappuccino if you ever get a chance to drive one of those.

My biggest gripe with the 86 is that the majority of them sound even worse than Subarus - all slappy throbbing fart noise. No combination of exhaust parts seems to save it from that reality. I've worked on dozens of them from 2012-2016 and most of them saw our dyno, and every single combo of parts equal length headers, unequal length headers, turbo, supercharged, custom branch resonators, etc they all sounded like shit. I just expect 400cc's more of the same from this one.
 

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Yeah, agree with you there, always sounds like it's down a cylinder. Would be nice if they could make it sound closer to a Carrera or something. A higher reving version of their flat 6 with a decent six speed would make for a fun car.
 

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The world said it was underpowered, so we gave it THIRTY WHOPPING BIG ASS HORSES MORE FROM A BIGGER VERSION OF THE SAME SHITTY ENGINE! WOOO!
Who the fuck wants a sports car that gets smoked (straightline and roadcourse) by V6 Camrys and Hybrid Rav4's? I don't.
It's the stupidest goddamn thing. Toyota makes a sad turd of a sports car and then wonders why people don't buy it, then declare the sports car dead because they're not selling. Ugh.
TRUTH!!


Ken.
 

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The world said it was underpowered, so we gave it THIRTY WHOPPING BIG ASS HORSES MORE FROM A BIGGER VERSION OF THE SAME SHITTY ENGINE! WOOO!
Who the fuck wants a sports car that gets smoked (straightline and roadcourse) by V6 Camrys and Hybrid Rav4's? I don't.
It's the stupidest goddamn thing. Toyota makes a sad turd of a sports car and then wonders why people don't buy it, then declare the sports car dead because they're not selling. Ugh.
I mean I agree the engine is shit.. but what rock do you live under? toyota sells a metric shit ton of these things... I wouldn't be surprised if this was the best selling sports car since it was released.

to me the biggest problem with the engine has been the torque dip. it makes a 200hp engine feel like a 150hp engine. so if they just got rid of that it'd be a good improvement. I mean it'll still sound like a tractor and still be slow, but at least it won't feel like its having an asthma attack every time you hit 3500rpm
 

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I mean I agree the engine is shit.. but what rock do you live under? toyota sells a metric shit ton of these things... I wouldn't be surprised if this was the best selling sports car since it was released.

to me the biggest problem with the engine has been the torque dip. it makes a 200hp engine feel like a 150hp engine. so if they just got rid of that it'd be a good improvement. I mean it'll still sound like a tractor and still be slow, but at least it won't feel like its having an asthma attack every time you hit 3500rpm
What do you mean 'what rock have I been under?' I've been saying the same shit since it was released. Had Toyota not given them a shit engine and not made it 5x100 they'd have sold a LOT of them to guys looking to get out of their busted old S chassis cars and everything else. But when none of your sets of wheels work, and the engine is more fragile and more expensive to modify meaningfully than literally every other 'tuner' engine out there... it falls short of its potential. Which sucks because the chassis, seating position, shifter, etc are all great.

I think you should reconsider the sales numbers. The Dodge Challenger and Ford Mustang have wildly outsold the FRS/BRZ/GT86 through the same years, and the Camaro did too until the 6th gen kinda faltered starting in 2016 or so.
The sad thing is that an Ecoboost 6MT Mustang absolutely smokes the GT86, gets similar if not better MPG, and isn't that different in out-the-door showroom pricing. $3k in an intercooler, exhaust, intake, and tuning package gets Ecoboost 2.3L's into the ~330-350whp range. To make 350whp in a GT86, it takes around $10k in an SC or Turbo kit and all the supporting mods there.

The GT86 sucks.
If we rewind to 2005, put a Beams 3S-GE under the hood, give it 5x114.3 wheels, make it easily tuned, and get them out the door for ~$22,500-$25k with a 6MT and a LSD rear end - nobody would give a shit about S-chassis cars anymore because the GT86 would have been a wild runaway success.

But Toyota waited too long, fucked up some critical details for no apparent good reason, and it came out overpriced. So it's been a sales flop compared to what it could have been, and literally the only thing that made it even sort of successful was the absence of any other RWD Japanese sports car that wasn't a ho-hum Miata or a $40,000 Z34.
 
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What do you mean 'what rock have I been under?' I've been saying the same shit since it was released. Had Toyota not given them a shit engine and not made it 5x100 they'd have sold a LOT of them to guys looking to get out of their busted old S chassis cars and everything else. But when none of your sets of wheels work, and the engine is more fragile and more expensive to modify meaningfully than literally every other 'tuner' engine out there... it falls short of its potential. Which sucks because the chassis, seating position, shifter, etc are all great.

I think you should reconsider the sales numbers. The Dodge Challenger and Ford Mustang have wildly outsold the FRS/BRZ/GT86 through the same years, and the Camaro did too until the 6th gen kinda faltered starting in 2016 or so.
The sad thing is that an Ecoboost 6MT Mustang absolutely smokes the GT86, gets similar if not better MPG, and isn't that different in out-the-door showroom pricing. $3k in an intercooler, exhaust, intake, and tuning package gets Ecoboost 2.3L's into the ~330-350whp range. To make 350whp in a GT86, it takes around $10k in an SC or Turbo kit and all the supporting mods there.

The GT86 sucks.
If we rewind to 2005, put a Beams 3S-GE under the hood, give it 5x114.3 wheels, make it easily tuned, and get them out the door for ~$22,500-$25k with a 6MT and a LSD rear end - nobody would give a shit about S-chassis cars anymore because the GT86 would have been a wild runaway success.

But Toyota waited too long, fucked up some critical details for no apparent good reason, and it came out overpriced. So it's been a sales flop compared to what it could have been, and literally the only thing that made it even sort of successful was the absence of any other RWD Japanese sports car that wasn't a ho-hum Miata or a $40,000 Z34.
the rock comment was only about the sales figures, but after looking up the actual numbers I was wrong, they are pretty pathetic. I was just going off how many off them I see when driving around, maybe they're all just sold around where I live cause I see like 50 86s to every one Camaro. I do see a crap ton of Mustangs and Challengers tho. I prolly see as many 86s around here as I do Mustangs.

you can't compare a turbo engine to an NA engine when it comes to aftermarket hp per dollar. you'd need 10k to make 330whp if it came with a Beams too. And literally any other NA 4 banger cause no NA 4 banger is getting to over over 300whp with bolt ons. A K20/24 can get close if you add cams to the equation but thats not bolt ons anymore. Speaking of the Beams, it wouldn't have much of an effect on sales. Only thing its got over the FA is no torque dip and it sounds good. Lets face it, the Beams is an outdated and heavy (iron block) engine, in this day and age is nothing special... the only people that a Beams engine would mean anything to is a handful Toyota fanboi's that look at it through rose colored glasses. Plus they wouldn't be able to market all that lower center of gravity bs. On the other hand it'd make a K20/24 swap a bit easier... Toyota doesn't really have an engine that would make a much of a difference, all their good engines are old. Now if they took the turbo FA out of the wrx and put it in the 86... that would make a big difference. Personally I'm not a huge fan of the FA even in turbo form, but there are lots of people that love it. And it wouldn't have a torque dip and it wouldn't be pathetically slow.

the 5x114.3 would be a nice touch but it was really only an issue the first few months the car was on sale. The market has been flooded with wheels in 5x100 for the 86. and S-chassis needs a pretty significantly different offset than the 86, so those specific wheels wouldn't carry over anyway unless you were putting a widebody on your 86.
 

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the rock comment was only about the sales figures, but after looking up the actual numbers I was wrong, they are pretty pathetic. I was just going off how many off them I see when driving around, maybe they're all just sold around where I live cause I see like 50 86s to every one Camaro. I do see a crap ton of Mustangs and Challengers tho. I prolly see as many 86s around here as I do Mustangs.

you can't compare a turbo engine to an NA engine when it comes to aftermarket hp per dollar. you'd need 10k to make 330whp if it came with a Beams too. And literally any other NA 4 banger cause no NA 4 banger is getting to over over 300whp with bolt ons. A K20/24 can get close if you add cams to the equation but thats not bolt ons anymore. Speaking of the Beams, it wouldn't have much of an effect on sales. Only thing its got over the FA is no torque dip and it sounds good. Lets face it, the Beams is an outdated and heavy (iron block) engine, in this day and age is nothing special... the only people that a Beams engine would mean anything to is a handful Toyota fanboi's that look at it through rose colored glasses. Plus they wouldn't be able to market all that lower center of gravity bs. On the other hand it'd make a K20/24 swap a bit easier... Toyota doesn't really have an engine that would make a much of a difference, all their good engines are old. Now if they took the turbo FA out of the wrx and put it in the 86... that would make a big difference. Personally I'm not a huge fan of the FA even in turbo form, but there are lots of people that love it. And it wouldn't have a torque dip and it wouldn't be pathetically slow.

the 5x114.3 would be a nice touch but it was really only an issue the first few months the car was on sale. The market has been flooded with wheels in 5x100 for the 86. and S-chassis needs a pretty significantly different offset than the 86, so those specific wheels wouldn't carry over anyway unless you were putting a widebody on your 86.
Of course FI vs NA is comparable. Toyota and Subaru are the morons that chose not to use a factory turbo version of the FA engine. If Ford can make a more powerful turbocharged sports car out of the BASE MODEL Mustang that's better in the majority of performance metrics including MPG. why the fuck buy a GT86?

The 3S-GE Beams would have been a better choice not just because of the powerband, but because 3S engines have routinely been built above 600-700whp without incident and there's a few using 5S blocks with 3SG heads making over 1000whp. So, sure, the low CG bullshit wouldn't be applicable but the car would have been better stock and better to modify and it would have sounded better and all of that was literally sitting in Toyota's parts bin. If they really wanted an AL block the 2AZ was right there.
The FA, like the EJ, just starts sucking wind above 450whp or so. They struggle to break 550-600whp with same turbos and fuel combinations that would make 700-800awhp on an Evo or 900whp on a pretty much any RWD engine. I know this because I was the shop foreman of a performance shop and oversaw the builds of literally dozens of 500+whp Evos and WRX's, and at least 20 SC'd or Turbo'd FRS/BRZ's. When some haggard 6766 CEA NA-T 2JZ-GE powered S14 makes nearly 900whp all-in on E85, and an identical 6766 CEA all-in on E85 on a top-shelf Cosworth stroker STi makes 200whp less across the board and spools slower... it's just sad.

Absolutely the K motor is superior in every way, hell IMHO it's the best 4 cyl engine on the whole fucking planet. But far be it from us to dream about Honda doing a collab with Toyota on a car like this while they were still selling the S2000. As an S2k replacement in a GT86 chassis using a Honda K motor, fuck, I'd suddenly understand having to hoard TP and Kleenex. It'd be the perfect RWD 4 cyl sports coupe.

You missed the point I was trying to make on the 5x114.3 hubs. If I've got 20 spare wheels in 5x114.3, I don't want to sell all of that shit at a massive loss to buy the same crap in 5x100. It adds cost to entry for that sort of thing. Especially when I've got a set of badass TE37's or similar expensive wheels I don't want to have to resort to hub adapters or other bullshit to use them.
There was literally zero benefit to doing 5x100, it just fucked things up for a substantial chunk of Toyota's target market for no good fucking reason. Sure, the aftermarket responded, but the idea was to build a car to appeal to current enthusiasts, and Toyota has some sort of weird myopic thought disease that makes them think everyone sells everything else they own before buying their next car.
 
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