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Discussion Starter #1
Ahhhhh [email protected]#%ing Toyota. While to some this may seem like cool news, it just means Toyota has absolutely no desire to continue their long tradition of building high quality "Japanese" sports cars and instead focus on Siennas, Camrys, Corollas and their fiscal bottom line. I can't believe how one man was able to so negatively influence this once great auto manufacturer (I'm talking about Tetsuya Tada of course). If this does in fact happen (whether with Porsche or Subaru or whoever) it will signal the end of my love for this brand. I'm pretty well already there anyway.

 

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oh no... they're doing what makes money instead of building cars that lose money... how dare they ruin the brand by being successful. maybe they had a bad taste left in their mouth after poor sales of the 90's Supra's and MR2's... now that they made some money they're being safe about making fun cars again, sharing the risk with others.

also, you talk about toyota like they have some huge racing/sports car pedigree... they have 2.5 cars, the Supra, MR2, and the half is the all-trac celica... or maybe the half is the MR2

also, you're mad that they're partnering with Porsche? really? Porsche? its literally the best possible choice their is to partner with someone for an MR2. I mean maaaybe Lotus would be better, and thats a big maybe.

how dare they sully the great Toyota name by partnering with the lowly Porsche
 

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I don't mind a Porsche partnership as long as they don't completely screw this one up. They can't forget a 6 speed right? And no crazy pricing for a car that isn't even built by them in Japan. So aside from how they design the exterior, whats the downside? (Tada influence excluded)
 

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lets not forget, if it weren't for the partnerships (Subaru, BMW, hopefully Porsche), none of these cars would exist at all... it'd still be just Camry's and Sienna's and TC's
 

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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
For me it's quite simple.....if I want a Porsche, I'll go and buy a Porsche, not a Toyota. They could of made money developing their own cars (your example from the 1990s is not exactly on point given times were different back then with the recession and shifting consumer preferences etc...). The fact is they chose not to because of laziness and greed.

Also I wasn't insinuating Porsche is an inferior brand. Quite the contrary, they're great (mostly anyway). But again, If I wanted a Porsche. I'd buy a Porsche. Part of what made the MK1 and MK2 MR2s so good (and to a lesser extent the MK3 MRS') was that they WERE TOYOTAS.
 

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Sounds like the Porsche comment by Tada was said in jest.
 

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But that's the thing......I was genuinely interested in buying a new Toyota MR2, but now I may not be able to depending on what happens.
no I don't think you understand "the thing". the thing is if they don't partner with anyone, there will be no MR2 at all. It will only happen IF they partner with someone. Thats how the 86 happened and thats how the Supra happened. So if they have to partner with someone, it doesn't get much better than Porsche. So would you rather their be no MR2 at all over a Porsche MR2? Personally I'd rather take the Porsche MR2 over nothing.
 

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no I don't think you understand "the thing". the thing is if they don't partner with anyone, there will be no MR2 at all. It will only happen IF they partner with someone. Thats how the 86 happened and thats how the Supra happened. So if they have to partner with someone, it doesn't get much better than Porsche. So would you rather their be no MR2 at all over a Porsche MR2? Personally I'd rather take the Porsche MR2 over nothing.
No, I don't think YOU understand the "thing". The 86 is nothing great - just like the FR-S, and the new Supra should be called the Z4, since - it basically is. Many of us do NOT want a BMW, or a Subaru, or anything else to be called a Toyota. When the FT-1 concept was shown, the enthusiasts were - ENTHUSIASTIC. When the new Supra was leaked and then later shown, not so much, it at all. What was the difference? Who built it - NOT Toyota.
I much prefer there be no new Supra if Toyota does not have control and build 90%+ of it.
And there is absolutely no reason Toyota can/could not develop and build any of these cars if they want to. They do NOT have to partner - this is a bean-counter car, and Toyota already has plenty of those.
 

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No, I don't think YOU understand the "thing". The 86 is nothing great - just like the FR-S, and the new Supra should be called the Z4, since - it basically is. Many of us do NOT want a BMW, or a Subaru, or anything else to be called a Toyota. When the FT-1 concept was shown, the enthusiasts were - ENTHUSIASTIC. When the new Supra was leaked and then later shown, not so much, it at all. What was the difference? Who built it - NOT Toyota.
I much prefer there be no new Supra if Toyota does not have control and build 90%+ of it.
And there is absolutely no reason Toyota can/could not develop and build any of these cars if they want to. They do NOT have to partner - this is a bean-counter car, and Toyota already has plenty of those.
so if you don't want it, it shouldn't exist? just cause you're a Toyota purist fanboi you wanna ruin it for other people that want the car?

and really? you're comparing the concept to the production car? the concept car is always much more impressive than the production counterpart.

and yes, Toyota is very much a bean counter brand. It has been for a long time now. Thats why none of these cars would exist if they weren't created by partnering up with someone. So if this is where you draw the line for continuing your Toyota fandom, I've got news for you, you should have swore off Toyota at least a decade ago...

I really don't get brand loyalty with cars... Each car should be judged by itself, not the brand. The MKIV Supra was great, the Matrix not so much. Corvette is a great car, Malibu not so much... Evo's are awesome, almost every other Mitsubishi under the sun sucks

ps.
I never said the 86 (and all its variants) is great, but overall its a decent car. The part of the car that sucks is the engine, the rest of it is fine, the chassis is pretty impressive. My point was that it wouldn't exist at all if the partnership with Subaru didn't happen.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
no I don't think you understand "the thing". the thing is if they don't partner with anyone, there will be no MR2 at all. It will only happen IF they partner with someone. Thats how the 86 happened and thats how the Supra happened. So if they have to partner with someone, it doesn't get much better than Porsche. So would you rather their be no MR2 at all over a Porsche MR2? Personally I'd rather take the Porsche MR2 over nothing.
I understand the situation just fine thanks, I can re-explain it to you if you like?

To answer your question, with a resounding YES, I'd prefer there be no bastard cars in Toyota's lineup when it comes to their fun vehicles. There is no reason Toyota could not of gone on their own to make these cars (like they have in the past), thinking otherwise is complete nonesense. If Hyundai, Kia, Nissan can still make business cases for it, then FFS why can't the biggest, richest, arguably best auto-manufacturer in the world do it then? I've already indicated why above (and you basically re-iterated my sentiment with the bean counter comment), Toyota corporate is no longer the hungry go getters they once were. They have become lazy and greedy, more interested in making their shareholders happy than their existing fan base). So why would I want to drive a fun car, or better yet, a halo car from a company that doesn't have the pride and balls to design and build it themselves?

Also, why would you want a Porsche MR2? Why not just get the real deal and buy a Porsche?
 

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Discussion Starter #16
so if you don't want it, it shouldn't exist? just cause you're a Toyota purist fanboi you wanna ruin it for other people that want the car?

and really? you're comparing the concept to the production car? the concept car is always much more impressive than the production counterpart.

and yes, Toyota is very much a bean counter brand. It has been for a long time now. Thats why none of these cars would exist if they weren't created by partnering up with someone. So if this is where you draw the line for continuing your Toyota fandom, I've got news for you, you should have swore off Toyota at least a decade ago...

I really don't get brand loyalty with cars... Each car should be judged by itself, not the brand. The MKIV Supra was great, the Matrix not so much. Corvette is a great car, Malibu not so much... Evo's are awesome, almost every other Mitsubishi under the sun sucks

ps.
I never said the 86 (and all its variants) is great, but overall its a decent car. The part of the car that sucks is the engine, the rest of it is fine, the chassis is pretty impressive. My point was that it wouldn't exist at all if the partnership with Subaru didn't happen.
Not only are some of your posts inaccurate, but you're starting to sound like some annoying poster that recently got banned. Why call someone a "purest fanboi" or mention their "Toyota fandom" just for having a strong (and logical) opinion? Let's keep the personal attacks and keyboard warrior syndrome away from this thread. You won't be making friends or getting your point (however oblivious) across otherwise.

You like the idea of a mixed MR2, cool beans. A bunch of us don't. Start name calling and getting too loud and the thread falls all to shit.
 

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firstly, fanboi isn't an insult if its accurate. and you should be able to admit when you're a fanboi of something. I'm a fanboi of some things, I admit it. So yes I will absolutely call you and Silver Supra fanboi's, because you are, as a statement of fact, not an insult.
as far as me being banned... look at my join date and post count, this isn't a new account to get around getting banned... I've never been banned

Toyota corporate is no longer the hungry go getters they once were. They have become lazy and greedy, more interested in making their shareholders happy than their existing fan base).
absolutely agree with this. and they have been like for a long time now. They got to their position of being the richest car company by acting like this. This is also why I have a hard time wrapping my mind around your sense of how great of a car company Toyota is... it seams to be exactly what you don't like in a car company. I very much disagree with your "arguably best auto-manufacturer in the world" statement. I mean if you define best as reliable profitable boring cars that people with zero interest in cars wanna buy, then sure. If you define best as anything exciting... then no... Toyota is a transportation appliance company and has been for the last 20+ years... every once in a while they do something exciting like the LFA... but look how that went for them, they lost sh*t tons of money... So because they can, they decided to reduce the risk when it comes to building niche cars by partnering with others.

and while we're talking about "best" car companies, Porsche is much more eligible for that title than Toyota. They build exciting and reliable cars (I mean not as reliable as Toyota), they build track specials, they actually race, they don't void your warranty for taking their cars (well the GT models) to the track, they hold fastest production car records at multiple tracks... While Toyota... well they built the Supra 26 years ago... which didn't sell that well... and the LFA which they lost money on...

As far as me wanting a Porsche MR2 and just going buying a Porsche... the cheapest track worthy Porsche is at least 100k, and I like to track my cars, and I can't afford taking that kinda risk with a 100k car... but MR2 should be substantially cheaper, that I may be able to afford to beat on at the track regularly...

You like the idea of a mixed MR2, cool beans. A bunch of us don't. Start name calling and getting too loud and the thread falls all to shit.
thats kinda what I'm getting at... but you and Silver Supra are in here all "if its not all Toyota it shouldn't exist"... so yeah, cool beans... let my beans be cool and don't b*tch about Toyota partnering with arguably best auto-manufacturer in the world to make the MR2 as long as it gets made. I'd honestly be more concerned about the MR2 sucking if it was only Toyota... they'd prolly put the Corolla's 160hp engine and call it a sports car just like they call the Corolla a "hot hatch". Or they think the acceptable alternative for a manual in the new Supra is buying an 86... When you think of what Toyota is capable if you need to think what its capable of today, not what it was capable of 26 years ago. So when I hear of them partnering with Porsche I get excited, because I know it won't be some boring POS excuse for a sports car... well not a POS... but definitely boring.
 

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Some people have no clue what they are talking about - and just continue to exhibit it.
Fact - I am no boi of any type - anyone that thinks otherwise is blowing smoke.
The fact is that Toyota makes much, much, more reliable cars than BMW. Anyone that believes otherwise does not know the facts.
I would not take a BMW after the warranty period if you gave it to me - but I have driven Toyotas for for hundreds of thousands of miles with no problem. My MKIV will be reliable long after the 2020 mkvs are in the junkyard.
The company that built the MKIV - with little help from another company - is pushing this BMW out as a Supra - when it is nothing of the sort. Anyone that believes Toyota could not build a worthy successor to the MKIV is dead wrong. They could - they just won't. They are hoping there are enough suckers out there that will buy based on the nameplate only. That is to be determined, but I doubt this car will sell as much as the MKIV did - even though it was brutalized pricewise by the changes in the exchange rate between design and release.
I don't care whether anyone else buys this car. I don't like it - I don't hate it - it is warm piss under the bridge.
(BTW - It is sophomoric to try to analyze or compartmentalize someone online - that is a fail. )
 

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I'm staying on the sidelines lol.
244222
 

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Discussion Starter #20
firstly, fanboi isn't an insult if its accurate. and you should be able to admit when you're a fanboi of something. I'm a fanboi of some things, I admit it. So yes I will absolutely call you and Silver Supra fanboi's, because you are, as a statement of fact, not an insult.
Sorry, it's an instigative tactic typically used by emotionally upset or argumentatively week people. It's the beginning of what typically ends up in a shit slinging fest. If you've been on this forums as long as you say you have, you'd know the tell tale signs.....

absolutely agree with this. and they have been like for a long time now. They got to their position of being the richest car company by acting like this.
Not exactly......they got to be the richest car company by focusing on what was truly important over the last 6 decades (too many people here judging them by the last 15-20 years alone).....making reliable, dependable and YES even fun cars at one point in time.

This is also why I have a hard time wrapping my mind around your sense of how great of a car company Toyota is... it seams to be exactly what you don't like in a car company. I very much disagree with your "arguably best auto-manufacturer in the world" statement. I mean if you define best as reliable profitable boring cars that people with zero interest in cars wanna buy, then sure. If you define best as anything exciting... then no... Toyota is a transportation appliance company and has been for the last 20+ years... every once in a while they do something exciting like the LFA... but look how that went for them, they lost sh*t tons of money... So because they can, they decided to reduce the risk when it comes to building niche cars by partnering with others.
Greatness is measured in many different ways as a car manufacturer. Let me clarify, I'm not saying they are the greatest (which is why I prefaced with "arguably "), but in the overall scheme of things if you look at the entirety of their history, they are one of the greats. There are of course quite a few others in that category as well. Also let me clarify that I feel that honor/title is becoming less and less true these days given the current decisions they're making. Brand image is hugely important in the retail/business world, and I feel they are losing theirs now.

and while we're talking about "best" car companies, Porsche is much more eligible for that title than Toyota. They build exciting and reliable cars (I mean not as reliable as Toyota), they build track specials, they actually race, they don't void your warranty for taking their cars (well the GT models) to the track, they hold fastest production car records at multiple tracks... While Toyota... well they built the Supra 26 years ago... which didn't sell that well... and the LFA which they lost money on...
I'm not arguing how great a car company Porsche is. They are! They have history, heritage, brand image, quality and a loyal fan base. They are a great company. So is/was Toyota at one point. If Toyota was to build this MR2 (and the Supra for that matter) on their own merits, and partner with Porsche on a separate joint venture, I'd wager this new vehicle would do a lot better and be greeted with much more uniform interest. I know, I know.....perhaps not as fiscally do-able. But again they could if they really wanted to, they have simply chosen not to.

As far as me wanting a Porsche MR2 and just going buying a Porsche... the cheapest track worthy Porsche is at least 100k, and I like to track my cars, and I can't afford taking that kinda risk with a 100k car... but MR2 should be substantially cheaper, that I may be able to afford to beat on at the track regularly...
No offense, but if you can't afford to track a 100k Porsche MR2, you won't be able to afford to track a 90k MR2 Porsche. These sporting partnerships Toyota is engaging in are not producing equivalent cars at a fraction of the price.
thats kinda what I'm getting at... but you and Silver Supra are in here all "if its not all Toyota it shouldn't exist"... so yeah, cool beans... let my beans be cool and don't b*tch about Toyota partnering with arguably best auto-manufacturer in the world to make the MR2 as long as it gets made. I'd honestly be more concerned about the MR2 sucking if it was only Toyota... they'd prolly put the Corolla's 160hp engine and call it a sports car just like they call the Corolla a "hot hatch". Or they think the acceptable alternative for a manual in the new Supra is buying an 86...
You asked the question above, and we replied. I'd rather Toyota have stayed a boring bland company than engage in a practice that now dilutes and obfuscates their once great brand image for this class of cars. Given this is a public forum, I'm quite certain I/we can bitch about whatever we like. If it bothers you that much, don't participate. In my opinion, there's nothing wrong with a 160hp MR2, if it's done right. There's nothing wrong with Toyota's mainstream engines either. Other (some exotic) manufacturer's have used Camry and Corolla engines in their offerings admirably. Don't forget the MR2 once came with a Corolla engine to world wide acclaim, so ya nothing wrong with that in my eyes if done properly. Not every car needs to be a 500hp rocket with Porsche/BMW influence.

When you think of what Toyota is capable if you need to think what its capable of today, not what it was capable of 26 years ago. So when I hear of them partnering with Porsche I get excited, because I know it won't be some boring POS excuse for a sports car... well not a POS... but definitely boring.
This is also where we disagree. They ARE capable of it now, but for some reason the top chiefs at Toyota have decided not to. Hell Toyota is even working on that new GR Supersport hyper-exotic, so let's not pretend they can't. A decision has been made not to, which is what is upsetting to many of us. Other's such as yourself (and a few recently band members) like it, so I suppose this is where we should agree to disagree.
 
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