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Some people have no clue what they are talking about - and just continue to exhibit it.
Fact - I am no boi of any type - anyone that thinks otherwise is blowing smoke.
The fact is that Toyota makes much, much, more reliable cars than BMW. Anyone that believes otherwise does not know the facts.
I would not take a BMW after the warranty period if you gave it to me - but I have driven Toyotas for for hundreds of thousands of miles with no problem. My MKIV will be reliable long after the 2020 mkvs are in the junkyard.
The company that built the MKIV - with little help from another company - is pushing this BMW out as a Supra - when it is nothing of the sort. Anyone that believes Toyota could not build a worthy successor to the MKIV is dead wrong. They could - they just won't. They are hoping there are enough suckers out there that will buy based on the nameplate only. That is to be determined, but I doubt this car will sell as much as the MKIV did - even though it was brutalized pricewise by the changes in the exchange rate between design and release.
I don't care whether anyone else buys this car. I don't like it - I don't hate it - it is warm piss under the bridge.
(BTW - It is sophomoric to try to analyze or compartmentalize someone online - that is a fail. )
you keep saying I have no clue what I'm talking about... and then you don't point out where. if you think I'm wrong about something, point it out.

I didn't say anything about BMW's reliability, the only thing I said about BMW is that the new Supra wouldn't exist without the partnership.
 

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Sorry, it's an instigative tactic typically used by emotionally upset or argumentatively week people. It's the beginning of what typically ends up in a shit slinging fest. If you've been on this forums as long as you say you have, you'd know the tell tale signs.....
I call it like I see it as far as fanboi's go. Like I said before, nothing wrong with being a fanboi as long as you admit it. I was a bit of an asshØle about this at first, sorry for being an asshole about it.

Not exactly......they got to be the richest car company by focusing on what was truly important over the last 6 decades (too many people here judging them by the last 15-20 years alone).....making reliable, dependable and YES even fun cars at one point in time.

Greatness is measured in many different ways as a car manufacturer. Let me clarify, I'm not saying they are the greatest (which is why I prefaced with "arguably "), but in the overall scheme of things if you look at the entirety of their history, they are one of the greats. There are of course quite a few others in that category as well. Also let me clarify that I feel that honor/title is becoming less and less true these days given the current decisions they're making. Brand image is hugely important in the retail/business world, and I feel they are losing theirs now.
ok, so tell me whats so great about Toyota's history. As far as I'm concerned their greatest accomplishments happened in the early to mid 90's. They were nothing special before that (I guess there was the 2000GT) and a complete yawn fest since then. But hey, change my mind.

I'm not arguing how great a car company Porsche is. They are! They have history, heritage, brand image, quality and a loyal fan base. They are a great company. So is/was Toyota at one point. If Toyota was to build this MR2 (and the Supra for that matter) on their own merits, and partner with Porsche on a separate joint venture, I'd wager this new vehicle would do a lot better and be greeted with much more uniform interest. I know, I know.....perhaps not as fiscally do-able. But again they could if they really wanted to, they have simply chosen not to.
Absolutely, Toyota can do it all themselves... but they won't. Because they don't wanna take the financial risk.

No offense, but if you can't afford to track a 100k Porsche MR2, you won't be able to afford to track a 90k MR2 Porsche. These sporting partnerships Toyota is engaging in are not producing equivalent cars at a fraction of the price.
I'm making the assumption that it will be priced as it has historically, between the Supra and the Celica. In todays terms between the Supra and the 86. Which puts it in the 35-50k range depending on options. If its gonna be 90k, its not an MR2 at all... if its 90k I'm not gonna buy it, but I still want it to exist...

You asked the question above, and we replied. I'd rather Toyota have stayed a boring bland company than engage in a practice that now dilutes and obfuscates their once great brand image for this class of cars. Given this is a public forum, I'm quite certain I/we can bitch about whatever we like. If it bothers you that much, don't participate. In my opinion, there's nothing wrong with a 160hp MR2, if it's done right. There's nothing wrong with Toyota's mainstream engines either. Other (some exotic) manufacturer's have used Camry and Corolla engines in their offerings admirably. Don't forget the MR2 once came with a Corolla engine to world wide acclaim, so ya nothing wrong with that in my eyes if done properly. Not every car needs to be a 500hp rocket with Porsche/BMW influence.
this is where I have a bit of trouble wrapping my mind around how you're thinking. You're obviously a big fan of Toyota, but you'd rather see them be a boring bland company? Boring and bland means irrelevant, irrelevant basically means dead. You're rather see your favorite car company fade away into irrelevant obscurity of building driving refrigerators than sharing some engineering and cost with another car company and put out some exciting products? I mean you already answered this with a resounding yes, I just don't get why...

This is also where we disagree. They ARE capable of it now, but for some reason the top chiefs at Toyota have decided not to. Hell Toyota is even working on that new GR Supersport hyper-exotic, so let's not pretend they can't. A decision has been made not to, which is what is upsetting to many of us. Other's such as yourself (and a few recently band members) like it, so I suppose this is where we should agree to disagree.
I never said they can't, I just said they won't. A hyper exotic is different, its your flagship, you can't share credit on a flagship... you can't come out and say "look at what we're capable of" and then give half the credit to someone else. But the MR2 and Supra and 86 aren't the same, the goal of these is still to make money...
 

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you keep saying I have no clue what I'm talking about... and then you don't point out where. if you think I'm wrong about something, point it out.

I didn't say anything about BMW's reliability, the only thing I said about BMW is that the new Supra wouldn't exist without the partnership.
Triggered much? Did I mention your name or quote you?
LOL - no care.
 

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Triggered much? Did I mention your name or quote you?
LOL - no care.
there's 3 active people in this thread... the other guy agree's with you... deductive reasoning here is pretty basic...

and lol, triggered? about what? you gotta actually say something to trigger someone... a baseless vague "Some people have no clue what they are talking about" isn't exactly an argument... you just ran out of things to say
 

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Discussion Starter #25
I call it like I see it as far as fanboi's go. Like I said before, nothing wrong with being a fanboi as long as you admit it. I was a bit of an asshØle about this at first, sorry for being an asshole about it.
Well like I said, "fanboi" is typically used in a derogatory manner, perhaps that was not your intent but historically....on this site anyway... . "Fany boy" is a tad better. Being a "Toyota fan" like you used below is much more respectful and leads to a better overall discussion. Apology accepted.
ok, so tell me whats so great about Toyota's history. As far as I'm concerned their greatest accomplishments happened in the early to mid 90's. They were nothing special before that (I guess there was the 2000GT) and a complete yawn fest since then. But hey, change my mind.
Dude, I'm not trying to be rude here, and I'm not dodging the question.....but come on.....? A) That information is easily obtained with a simple search, and B) I shouldn't have to tell you. You seem like a Toyota fan too, so to not know what Toyota did before and after the MKIV is.........odd to me.
Absolutely, Toyota can do it all themselves... but they won't. Because they don't wanna take the financial risk.
Ok, well we are clear on that now at least. You had made a comment before about what they are capable of today not 26 years ago, which implies they can't now. If Hyundai and Kia can do it, then dammit for sure Toyota can. And comments to the contrary, especially from people like Tada are really maddening and a slap in the face to us old time Toyota sports car fans.
I'm making the assumption that it will be priced as it has historically, between the Supra and the Celica. In todays terms between the Supra and the 86. Which puts it in the 35-50k range depending on options. If its gonna be 90k, its not an MR2 at all... if its 90k I'm not gonna buy it, but I still want it to exist...
If that is the case, then the Porsche variant for sure won't be 100k, it'll probably be in the 45-60k. These joint ventures produce two cars practically the same, hence the cost savings. The BRZ and 86 and the Zupra and Z4 don't have that huge a price gap between them, and the gap that does exist is usually due to higher factory option content. Which raises an interesting question, will Porsche even want to come out with such an affordable sports car in the first place? That role is currently held by their 718 models, and from what I've read they don't want to come out with anything under that so as not to dilute the brand. So this might all be moot anyway.
this is where I have a bit of trouble wrapping my mind around how you're thinking. You're obviously a big fan of Toyota, but you'd rather see them be a boring bland company? Boring and bland means irrelevant, irrelevant basically means dead. You're rather see your favorite car company fade away into irrelevant obscurity of building driving refrigerators than sharing some engineering and cost with another car company and put out some exciting products? I mean you already answered this with a resounding yes, I just don't get why...
And there in lies the rub. We are on opposite sides of the fence for what a great/fun sports car entails. For me it has to be more than just about the numbers. There has to be passion. There has to be pride. There has to be history/heritage. And there has to be actual involvement. In the case of this car (and the two Toyota released before it) they have maybe the fun aspect down, but none of the other qualities. They've lost their way in my opinion. So ya, I was a big fan of Toyota before, huge. But it's hard to get passionate about them now when they are badge engineering their excitement. For me there are so many other cool options out there, why would I go to Toyota? Also as some have mentioned before, the after sales service for these badge engineered cars is probably going to be horrendous. Which totally detracts from the experience.
I never said they can't, I just said they won't. A hyper exotic is different, its your flagship, you can't share credit on a flagship... you can't come out and say "look at what we're capable of" and then give half the credit to someone else. But the MR2 and Supra and 86 aren't the same, the goal of these is still to make money...
You're right, they won't it seems which just sucks! This hyper-exotic will more than likely be a Lexus. So for Toyota's flagship....the Supra.....they really should have done it themselves. They could of made a financial plan that would of worked (again Hyundai and Kia can). The fact is they chose not to for insipid reasons, which begs the question....."do I want to buy a sports car from a company like this"?
 

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there's 3 active people in this thread... the other guy agree's with you... deductive reasoning here is pretty basic...

and lol, triggered? about what? you gotta actually say something to trigger someone... a baseless vague "Some people have no clue what they are talking about" isn't exactly an argument... you just ran out of things to say
I don't argue - I just state facts and labeled opinions. This is not about you.
 

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Dude, I'm not trying to be rude here, and I'm not dodging the question.....but come on.....? A) That information is easily obtained with a simple search, and B) I shouldn't have to tell you. You seem like a Toyota fan too, so to not know what Toyota did before and after the MKIV is.........odd to me.
I'm not really a Toyota fan, I tend to judge each car by itself. I mean brand and reputation matter, but a lot less than how the car stands on its own. I'm a Supra fan, a Celica All-Trac fan, LFA fan... MR2 is ok... gonna get crucified for this, but I think the 2000GT is ugly... well the front anyway, the side profile and rear look great, but the headlights are just an abomination to me (my opinion, if you (anyone) like the headlights thats fine). Tacoma/4Runner has been good historically, but its overdue for a redesign. Still a good truck, just aging now for the current model. And thats pretty much it, I don't really care for any other Toyota products.

I'm generally a car fan, not loyal to any one brand. I tend to hear about exciting and/or great things automotive related. The fact that I don't know of anything particularly exciting about Toyota pre 90's kinda tells me there isn't much there. I also spent about 10 mins googling it and also didn't find anything. If I gotta spend longer than that looking for it... its not all that great. So thats why I asked you, you seam to know something I don't and thats not easily googled... tell me at least 2 exciting things about pre 90's Toyota? Don't need a complete wikipedia page write up, just 2 sentences.

If that is the case, then the Porsche variant for sure won't be 100k, it'll probably be in the 45-60k. These joint ventures produce two cars practically the same, hence the cost savings. The BRZ and 86 and the Zupra and Z4 don't have that huge a price gap between them, and the gap that does exist is usually due to higher factory option content. Which raises an interesting question, will Porsche even want to come out with such an affordable sports car in the first place? That role is currently held by their 718 models, and from what I've read they don't want to come out with anything under that so as not to dilute the brand. So this might all be moot anyway.
This is an assumption on my part, so I could be very wrong...
About what Porsche gets out of it, its possible they want an affordable car again like the Boxster was when it was first introduced. Yeah there's the 718, but if you visit your local Porsche dealer you prolly won't find one for less than 90k... sure its their cheapest car, but its grown to be pretty far from affordable... but I'm just guessing on this...

And there in lies the rub. We are on opposite sides of the fence for what a great/fun sports car entails. For me it has to be more than just about the numbers. There has to be passion. There has to be pride. There has to be history/heritage. And there has to be actual involvement. In the case of this car (and the two Toyota released before it) they have maybe the fun aspect down, but none of the other qualities. They've lost their way in my opinion. So ya, I was a big fan of Toyota before, huge. But it's hard to get passionate about them now when they are badge engineering their excitement. For me there are so many other cool options out there, why would I go to Toyota? Also as some have mentioned before, the after sales service for these badge engineered cars is probably going to be horrendous. Which totally detracts from the experience.
Passion and pride and enthusiasm matter too, but just cause they're sharing the project doesn't mean that there's non there. There are people at Toyota that want to build fun and exciting cars. I think thats the reason why these shared projects exist. People at Toyota wanted to build something exciting niche but the bean counters wouldn't let them cause it was too much of a financial risk... so some not completely boring bean counter found a way to make it happen, share the risk...
 

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I don't argue - I just state facts and labeled opinions. This is not about you.
ok its obvious you have nothing to say, just need to have the last word in... so go ahead, reply to this with something that lets you sleep at night about how superior you are
 

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ok its obvious you have nothing to say, just need to have the last word in... so go ahead, reply to this with something that lets you sleep at night about how superior you are
I stay on point while you prefer ad hominem attacks. You, this thread, this site, do not affect my sleep or my worth at all.
 

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I'm impressed this thread has gone this long over a joke by liar in chief, Tada.😆
244256
 

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Discussion Starter #31
So thats why I asked you, you seam to know something I don't and thats not easily googled... tell me at least 2 exciting things about pre 90's Toyota? Don't need a complete wikipedia page write up, just 2 sentences.
Some people aren't into the older stuff, just the latest and greatest 500hp+ rockets. If that's you, then you may not care about the following items. HOWEVER, all these vehicles were players in their day and all contributed to Toyota's sporting character:
  • 4 generations of Supra
  • 7 generations of Celica
  • 3 generations of MR2
  • 4 generations of Soarer
  • 6 generations of Chaser (2 for us here in NA called the Cressida, the very definition of a Q-Ship)
  • 3 fun generations of Toyota Corolla (5th gen AE86 which spawned many popular tv shows and movies, 6th gen Sport GTS and 9th gen XRS)
  • 2000GT
There are a few others too that I haven't listed, but you can see they had quite a bit throughout the decades. Their current boring state of affairs didn't really start until the early 2000s, which seems to be only what people focus on.

There's also their fairly expansive motorsports side which would be a complete post onto itself. Some racing they dominated (like the late 80s and 90s IMSA and Lemans racing, rallying and offroad truck racing), others they didn't (like their F1 attempt) but the fact is they were there, doing it, slugging it out win or lose. Back when they actually cared....
People at Toyota wanted to build something exciting niche but the bean counters wouldn't let them cause it was too much of a financial risk... so some not completely boring bean counter found a way to make it happen, share the risk...
Again, I'm not so sure about this. Financial risk is all relative. If other manufacturers can do it, and Toyota did it for the better part of 50 years, I'm sure they can do it again now if that was a priority for them, which it seems it is not. And that is why a bunch of us, myself included, are really upset at this new sad state of affairs. They have foregone their history and pride taken the easy way out.

Let's not forget that this may all backfire on them too at some point in the future (as far as quality, reliabilty and sporting perception go). It's really too early to tell how this plays out, only time will tell.
 

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Some people aren't into the older stuff, just the latest and greatest 500hp+ rockets. If that's you, then you may not care about the following items. HOWEVER, all these vehicles were players in their day and all contributed to Toyota's sporting character:
  • 4 generations of Supra
  • 7 generations of Celica
  • 3 generations of MR2
  • 4 generations of Soarer
  • 6 generations of Chaser (2 for us here in NA called the Cressida, the very definition of a Q-Ship)
  • 3 fun generations of Toyota Corolla (5th gen AE86 which spawned many popular tv shows and movies, 6th gen Sport GTS and 9th gen XRS)
  • 2000GT
There are a few others too that I haven't listed, but you can see they had quite a bit throughout the decades. Their current boring state of affairs didn't really start until the early 2000s, which seems to be only what people focus on.
so yes, all these cars played a role, but only a few of them are actually anything special. Here's my edit of that list:

gen 4 Supra only
the 2 All-Trac gens of Celica's only
gen 1 and 2 MR2's were good, but personally I'm not a fan. gen 3 was half assed with the base Celica engine only, if they put the 180hp engine in there from the factory it would legitimately belong on this list.
Soarer's are not special, none of them, especially the last one, and the second to last was the definition of badge engineering between Toyota and Lexus. I guess some of them were better in other markets thanks to good engine options...
Chaser/Cressida in other markets where they got good engines, sure... in the US its literally a Camry, the definition of boring
I forgot about these Corolla's, I'll agree with these
2000GT was definitely a special car and I mentioned it myself above. But I'm personally not a fan.

I was mostly talking about their history in the US market. But even taking their global markets into account, the 90's is still really the only time Toyota was anything special. Sure they had stuff before that lead them to being great in the 90's, but the products that lead to it weren't that special. The 90's is when they decided to flex their engineering and build great versions of the above mentioned models.

So if you notice a trend... there are a bunch of models that could have been better with better engine choices... and thats why I have my concern about if the next MR2 was a Toyota only venture. Although with the 86 with Subaru they still put a crap engine into the car.

There's also their fairly expansive motorsports side which would be a complete post onto itself. Some racing they dominated (like the late 80s and 90s IMSA and Lemans racing, rallying and offroad truck racing), others they didn't (like their F1 attempt) but the fact is they were there, doing it, slugging it out win or lose. Back when they actually cared....
I guess racing brings some of the 80's into being special for Toyota. But the only cars at the time worth any excitement were the Celica's. And while they're cool, they're not really that special...

Again, I'm not so sure about this. Financial risk is all relative. If other manufacturers can do it, and Toyota did it for the better part of 50 years, I'm sure they can do it again now if that was a priority for them, which it seems it is not. And that is why a bunch of us, myself included, are really upset at this new sad state of affairs. They have foregone their history and pride taken the easy way out.

Let's not forget that this may all backfire on them too at some point in the future (as far as quality, reliabilty and sporting perception go). It's really too early to tell how this plays out, only time will tell.
again, its not that they can't, its that they (the people that have the final say in Toyota) don't want to. So the enthusiasts in Toyota figured out a way to get it done anyway, by partnering with others...
 

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Discussion Starter #33 (Edited)
the 90's is still really the only time Toyota was anything special. Sure they had stuff before that lead them to being great in the 90's, but the products that lead to it weren't that special.
That's a matter of personal opinion (may depend on how old you are too. Younger guys seem to not appreciate the cars from the 70s and 80s as much). I for one loved their cars from the 80s (even the 70s has style if not out right performance). Just because you feel they were'nt special doesn't mean they weren't. Take a look at equivalent era Porsches, BMWs and Subarus, Chevy's, Fords........Ferrari's..... and tell me they were better? Different price ranges, different niches, but not necessarily better or more fun especially in similar price range. For example the MKII Supra has won probably more awards and comparisons than the beloved MKIV Supra. Toyota has racked up quite a few industry and magazine awards through the decades for these cars, so really your statement is nothing more than personal preference and not fact.
I guess racing brings some of the 80's into being special for Toyota. But the only cars at the time worth any excitement were the Celica's. And while they're cool, they're not really that special...
Ok, again personal opinion. How you don't find their dominance of IMSA GTP racing with their Eagle MKIII race cars exciting is....interesting. Along with Formula 1, this was as cutting edge as racing got. Same with their Le-Mans aftewards. They were at the forefront of fast and cutting edge. Sounds like you may not know the full story..... or just have different preferences? Either way, there is more to them than you are giving them credit for.
again, its not that they can't, its that they (the people that have the final say in Toyota) don't want to. So the enthusiasts in Toyota figured out a way to get it done anyway, by partnering with others..
Again, we seem to agree on this point. They can, they just don't want to. Which is why I (and many others in the MKV threads) are somewhat upset as they've taken the easy way out. So as a Toyota enthusiast.....why would I buy something designed and made by someone else...?
And there in lies the rub. We are on opposite sides of the fence for what a great/fun sports car entails. For me it has to be more than just about the numbers. There has to be passion. There has to be pride. There has to be history/heritage. And there has to be actual involvement. In the case of this car (and the two Toyota released before it) they have maybe the fun aspect down, but none of the other qualities. They've lost their way in my opinion. So ya, I was a big fan of Toyota before, huge. But it's hard to get passionate about them now when they are badge engineering their excitement. For me there are so many other cool options out there, why would I go to Toyota? Also as some have mentioned before, the after sales service for these badge engineered cars is probably going to be horrendous. Which totally detracts from the experience.
Worth stating again. Let's be honest, there is no pride, passion, history/heritage in their decision. And it's one that may have a substantial post sale financial risk especially to their reputation of building reliable cars.
 

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That's a matter of personal opinion (may depend on how old you are too. Younger guys seem to not appreciate the cars from the 70s and 80s as much). I for one loved their cars from the 80s (even the 70s has style if not out right performance). Just because you feel they were'nt special doesn't mean they weren't. Take a look at equivalent era Porsches, BMWs and Subarus, Chevy's, Fords........Ferrari's..... and tell me they were better? Different price ranges, different niches, but not necessarily better or more fun especially in similar price range. For example the MKII Supra has won probably more awards and comparisons than the beloved MKIV Supra. Toyota has racked up quite a few industry and magazine awards through the decades for these cars, so really your statement is nothing more than personal preference and not fact.
there are plenty of 70's and 80's cars I like, just that none of them are Toyota's.

Ok, again personal opinion. How you don't find their dominance of IMSA GTP racing with their Eagle MKIII race cars exciting is....interesting. Along with Formula 1, this was as cutting edge as racing got. Same with their Le-Mans aftewards. They were at the forefront of fast and cutting edge. Sounds like you may not know the full story..... or just have different preferences? Either way, there is more to them than you are giving them credit for.
the "while cool, not that special" comment was directed at the Celica's, not Toyota's racing efforts. Racing is always cool... except when someone brags about getting first in a class where they're the only competitor (not directed at Toyota, general statement)

Again, we seem to agree on this point. They can, they just don't want to. Which is why I (and many others in the MKV threads) are somewhat upset as they've taken the easy way out. So as a Toyota enthusiast.....why would I buy something designed and made by someone else...?
yeah, the only difference here is I'd still rather see the cars made with a partnership than no car at all

Worth stating again. Let's be honest, there is no pride, passion, history/heritage in their decision.
with the bean counters that didn't wanna build the cars at all, absolutely, none of that. about the people that came up with the idea to partner up to convince those soul-less lets only build camry's bean counters to build something fun... there's some pride and passion there.

And it's one that may have a substantial post sale financial risk especially to their reputation of building reliable cars.
it worked out well with the 86 (well there were some minor issues), which is why the Supra happened. Its too early to tell how it'll work out with the Supra... but I have much more confidence in reliability working out with a Porsche partnership than BMW
 

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Discussion Starter #35
with the bean counters that didn't wanna build the cars at all, absolutely, none of that. about the people that came up with the idea to partner up to convince those soul-less lets only build camry's bean counters to build something fun... there's some pride and passion there.
Sorry, I disagree. It was probably a decision based on how to increase profit in the easiest possible way, nothing to do with pride and passion. The bean counters at Toyota did not build anything in fact. All they did was pick up the phone and conduct a few face to face meetings. Definately no pride and passion there. Just a business decision from a company that is not longer in the game.
it worked out well with the 86 (well there were some minor issues), which is why the Supra happened. Its too early to tell how it'll work out with the Supra... but I have much more confidence in reliability working out with a Porsche partnership than BMW
Agreed, partnering with Porsche will more than likely produce a car that is much more reliable than with BMW. Having said that it probably still won't be as reliable as a 100% Toyota sport car.
there are plenty of 70's and 80's cars I like, just that none of them are Toyota's.
That's too bad because there are some real good cars there from back then. So, we know what you don't like, what from the 70s and 80s do you like? As a fun exercise, let's see how they compare. Obviously this has nothing to do with this thread......but then again neither has the last dozen posts lol.
 

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That's too bad because there are some real good cars there from back then. So, we know what you don't like, what from the 70s and 80s do you like? As a fun exercise, let's see how they compare. Obviously this has nothing to do with this thread......but then again neither has the last dozen posts lol.
240/260Z
Skylines
911
M3
M5
1989 CRX (technically 80's)
Lancia Delta Integrale
Stratos
Escort euro models
the standard muscle cars of the early 70's: Camaro, Mustang, Challenger, etc
and I gotta back track a little, the 70's Celica's are cool
and the 2000GT is definitely a special car, just not to me. Part of the reason why I don't like it is cause of how special people think it is. its a cool car, but nowhere near 500k cool car. 500k is Singer 911 money...

I don't really know anything about Jensen Interceptor's, but I always thought they were cool.
 

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Discussion Starter #37
240/260Z
Skylines
911
M3
M5
1989 CRX (technically 80's)
Lancia Delta Integrale
Stratos
Escort euro models
the standard muscle cars of the early 70's: Camaro, Mustang, Challenger, etc
and I gotta back track a little, the 70's Celica's are cool
and the 2000GT is definitely a special car, just not to me. Part of the reason why I don't like it is cause of how special people think it is. its a cool car, but nowhere near 500k cool car. 500k is Singer 911 money...

I don't really know anything about Jensen Interceptor's, but I always thought they were cool.
Definitely some cool cars in that list, a few I'm not so sure about. Our Venn diagram of preferred classic cars probably overlaps around 40%-45% I'd estimate. Enough for respect. No need to dissect things further as in the end it really is about personal preferences.

I hope IF this Porsche MR2 thing happens they have a winner on their hands and knock it out of the park, because the Zupra for me definitely was not. For me, it would be nice though if Toyota was to go back to their past and do one of these projects on their own. Just like we all know they can. The MR2 was/is their last salvo for me. Let's see what happens....
 

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Definitely some cool cars in that list, a few I'm not so sure about. Our Venn diagram of preferred classic cars probably overlaps around 40%-45% I'd estimate. Enough for respect. No need to dissect things further as in the end it really is about personal preferences.

I hope IF this Porsche MR2 thing happens they have a winner on their hands and knock it out of the park, because the Zupra for me definitely was not. For me, it would be nice though if Toyota was to go back to their past and do one of these projects on their own. Just like we all know they can. The MR2 was/is their last salvo for me. Let's see what happens....
I'm mostly with you on the Zupra... while I do like the car (minus the auto only thing), its definitely not worthy of the Supra name.
 

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"It's not just sports cars. If you make something in-house, you can't actually make anything exciting. For instance, smartphones. For every company, the best technology [from other companies] is integrated in there and that's the excitement. It's the same for cars. If you want to make something exciting and suited to each era, you have to find which company has the best technology and generate new value."-Tada


I'm sorry but fucking what?! If someone else has a better product then you should strive to develop something better. If you're the back up on the bench then you should be working your ass off to become 1st string. His smartphone example I feel is based by Apple sourcing areas of their phones like their touchscreens to Samsung. But Apple doesn't make the best smartphones, they just make the best to non-tech savvy users.
 

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^I second you sentiments on that

also taken from that article:
It's much less stress if I can make it with just Toyota and not with another company," Tada continued. He warned, however, that an exclusively Toyota-developed, small-market sports car could fall short of lofty expectations due to technological constraints, using smartphones as an analogy.
which confirms my concern that if the MR2 was a Toyota only product it can turn out boring and nothing special
 
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