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IF you think anyone is going to equate a Nissan with a Porsche - you are insane. I don't care how well it performs.. it's all about cache. Porsche has it - a gussied up G35 doesn't. Period.
 

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Blitz Supra
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Discussion Starter #22
True that no matter how well the Corvette or say a GT-R performs, it is still not on the same level as a Porsche. It will never have a lineage from a Manufacturer that has always made sports cars from day 1. The Porsche buyer is going to buy a Porsche regardless, they could care less about 0-60mph times. The guy buying the Z06 has little man mentality, which means he needs to be faster than anyone. I guess you can say a lot of Supra owners are like this. However Supra owners do demand build quality and comfort which the Supra does provide.

The guy buying the GTR wants a 911 Turbo and can't afford it so he accepts the cheaper car, aka GT-R. That same buyer will not buy a 911 or 911S because it doesn't perform as well, even though it is a better quality car. He wants the performance numbers.
 

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Jim Swantko said:
IF you think anyone is going to equate a Nissan with a Porsche - you are insane. I don't care how well it performs.. it's all about cache. Porsche has it - a gussied up G35 doesn't. Period.

In case you have a hard time reading:
Porsche 911 turbo = $130,000
Nissan GTR = $70,000

Big difference in price. And if you will remember back in the 90's when the R33/R34s were for sale in places outside of japan like europe and austrailia i'd think youd be very suprised how many more skylines were sold vs. porsches. Most of the world agrees that the Skyline isnt your average Nissan sentra much like the NSX isnt the average civic. And WTF about the G35? The GTR is in no way shape or form going to be a G35. The only reason the G35 is the skyline in japan is because 95% of skylines are 4 door non perforance vehicles.
 

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Blitz Supra
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Discussion Starter #24
RedBeauty84ZX said:
In case you have a hard time reading:
Porsche 911 turbo = $130,000
Nissan GTR = $70,000

Big difference in price. And if you will remember back in the 90's when the R33/R34s were for sale in places outside of japan like europe and austrailia i'd think youd be very suprised how many more skylines were sold vs. porsches. Most of the world agrees that the Skyline isnt your average Nissan sentra much like the NSX isnt the average civic. And WTF about the G35? The GTR is in no way shape or form going to be a G35. The only reason the G35 is the skyline in japan is because 95% of skylines are 4 door non perforance vehicles.
I don't get the inference, but of course a GTR should sell more than a 911 Turbo. A lot more of them are made for the public than a 911 Turbo. Also more people can afford $70k vs. $130k. Two way different customers.
 

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A Porsche customer will never consider a GT-R... a GT-R owner aspires to being a Porsche owner.

That pretty much sums up this situation.
 

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Blitz Supra
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Discussion Starter #26
What about Supra owners? I can't think of anything! LOL

I bought one because of the resale value and the fact that it can make gobs of power reliably.
 

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Jim Swantko said:
A Porsche customer will never consider a GT-R... a GT-R owner aspires to being a Porsche owner.

That pretty much sums up this situation.

Wrong. Porsche owners are very loyal advocates true, but not every auto enthusiest "aspires" to own a Porsche.
 

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kaneda said:
so apparently you've seen the finished car and the MSRP before everyone else on the planet?
Usually the prototype will look a lot better then the production version. And going off the of the prototype, this is going to be one ugly car. And the price point is going to be around 75k or so. So I still stand by my statement - Expensive and Ugly
 

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Jim Swantko said:
A Porsche customer will never consider a GT-R... a GT-R owner aspires to being a Porsche owner.

That pretty much sums up this situation.
I don't agree with that at all. As a car enthusiast and as someone who has worked on and driven Porsches, I can honestly say I'm not a big fan. Yes, Porsche owners are some of the most loyal in the car world, but not all car people like them.

John
 

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Blitz Supra
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Discussion Starter #30
RedBeauty84ZX said:
Wrong. Porsche owners are very loyal advocates true, but not every auto enthusiest "aspires" to own a Porsche.

I think he was being to specific, but he means to generalize that a guy buying a GT-R would love to have something of more prestige if possible, say a Lambo or along similar lines. People always want something better.
 

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evsmotors said:
True that no matter how well the Corvette or say a GT-R performs, it is still not on the same level as a Porsche. It will never have a lineage from a Manufacturer that has always made sports cars from day 1. The Porsche buyer is going to buy a Porsche regardless, they could care less about 0-60mph times. The guy buying the Z06 has little man mentality, which means he needs to be faster than anyone. I guess you can say a lot of Supra owners are like this. However Supra owners do demand build quality and comfort which the Supra does provide.

The guy buying the GTR wants a 911 Turbo and can't afford it so he accepts the cheaper car, aka GT-R. That same buyer will not buy a 911 or 911S because it doesn't perform as well, even though it is a better quality car. He wants the performance numbers.
What abou the guy buying the 911 Turbo? Does that means he can't afford a F430? :rolleyes:
 

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I don't think all GTR owners or customers aspire to be Porshe owners at all. Count me in the minority, but I do not like Porsche interior or styling at all. For the cost of a Porsche, its simply not a Ferrari. For the amount of money the porsche cost the interior styling leaves a lot to be desired..... but that may be Porsche's success, they don't want to change the styling or the interior much because their customers are repeat customers.

The closest I'll ever get to the current cheapest Ferrari is to sit in the F430 and check out the interior. Stepping out of that and sitting in a Porsche is like sitting in a Supra and then sitting in a Camaro Z28.

I don't really get all the fuss with GTR using the next generation VQ being such a big deal. The engine was designed from the ground up for turbo'd purpose, lower CG, better all round performance. No way Nissan can expect to keep up with the Next 911 turbo around the track if they were going to stick with the high CG inline-6 engine..... The GTR has to evolve to keep up and exceed the competion on the track; Thats why it has be said that the Next GTR will use a rear mounted 7-speed sequential transaxle. I'll believe it when it comes out, but its not hard to imagine if they want to beat the 911 turbo on the track it would take some serious "revolution" of the drivetrain configuration to have the balance to beat the 911's mid/rear mounted Flat 6 AWD.

No sense in beating a dead horse. To each their own, I'm glad all these cars appeal to different taste. When it comes out we will all see how they all will stack up; And you know the big Magazines are going to run the 911 Turbo and the GTR head to head in every significant test and will hang Nissan by their throats if the GTR doesn't exceed the 911 Turbo.
 

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Local dealers down here did sell the R32GTR for a while. It was basically marketed as 911 turbo performance for a fraction of the cost. It had the 3000GT and especially the RX7 to condend with. Unfortunately due to our greedy govt imposing massive taxes for imported cars, the GTR was sold at around $80-$90K which meant limited numbers where sold. Eventually grey imports from Japan coming in at $30-$40K meant no manufacturers would sell their flagship cars locally (mkiv, gtr, rx7 , 3000gt etc).

Its likely the same thing (lack of sales) might happen in the US with the new GTR, if its too highly priced. Shame really, because in such a large market there is money to be made. Although you can guarantee that in Japan the new GTR will sell like hotcakes. Which is good because that means some grey imports will find their way here (and the R34GTRs will be even cheaper).
 

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Blitz Supra
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Discussion Starter #34 (Edited)
G said:
What abou the guy buying the 911 Turbo? Does that means he can't afford a F430? :rolleyes:
You don't know the Porsche buyer do you? The guy buying the 911 Turbo does not want the Ferrari. :rolleyes: The guy buying the Porsche wants refinement, daily drive ability. The Ferrari Modena isn't a car you drive everyday, no where near the refinement of Porsches. Porsches are supercar daily drivers. They don't look too radical, however there is nothing like them on the road. Timeless design. Why do I know this? Because I own Porsches. I can afford Ferraris, but I don't want it. I have owned Porsches, and own 2 currently. The guy who wants the Ferrari is the guy who buys a Z06.

I would say the guy who loves the Supra for what it is would buy a Porsche. Someone looking for a reliable sports car, that isn't too flashy like a Ferrari. The Supra is similar to a 911. 2+2 seating, very fast, great handling, very reliable (trademarks of both Porsche and Toyota) and practical.
 

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Some people might say that Porsches are a timeless design, I say the Porsche engineers are lazy.

The point I was getting at is that you can not generalize about owners of car. Do all Vette owners have little man syndrome? No, I find most Vette owners want a Vette because, it's very reliable, American made, has good power, handles well and is not overpriced like all the other European cars. Same goes with Japanese cars.

If we were to generalize about Supra owners, they would be all assholes. :lol:
 

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Blitz Supra
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Discussion Starter #36
G said:
Some people might say that Porsches are a timeless design, I say the Porsche engineers are lazy.

The point I was getting at is that you can not generalize about owners of car. Do all Vette owners have little man syndrome? No, I find most Vette owners want a Vette because, it's very reliable, American made, has good power, handles well and is not overpriced like all the other European cars. Same goes with Japanese cars.

If we were to generalize about Supra owners, they would be all assholes. :lol:
Yes, generalizing that they all want the same thing is wrong. I guess he should have used the word "most". Because I can agree a lot of Supra owners are a$$holes, I don't know why. Maybe its because they are cocky that they have high 3 digits or 4 digit Horsepower??

There is a saying "Either Porsche Engineers have the easiest job in the world, or they have the hardest job in the world!" Based on History, Porsche is about evolution not revolution. Either way the good thing is that the evolution of the 911 gets better every generation. N/A Boxer 6 engines making over 415BHP is pretty impressive, I'm not sure there is any other Manufacturer making this type of number with such small displacement and no force induction.
 

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Discussion Starter #37
Forgot to mention that the Nissan Skyline is also about evolution and not revolution. If you compare all the models they have the same basic design, its just refined everytime. I'll find pics to compare.
 

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Discussion Starter #38
R32


R33


R34


and of course Porsche Generations.

993 Turbo


996 Turbo


997 Turbo
 

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evsmotors said:
Forgot to mention that the Nissan Skyline is also about evolution and not revolution. If you compare all the models they have the same basic design, its just refined everytime. I'll find pics to compare.
Hurry up damn it! I am getting sleepy. :bigthumb:
 

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Evsmotors. Its defintely true that the Nissan Skyline / GT-R styling was evolutionary. Its very easy to spot the 4 rear round tail lights and "butch" front end and "C" pillar design from generation to generation.

But the New Porsche looks almost exactly the same as the old model Porsche, inside and out.... Even though it uses all new parts and was completely redesigned. Thats why it draws a lot of criticism from non-porsche owners. Porsche owners always wanted a Porsche and will always own one and don't care about that.

The next GTR breaks the tradition; No longer based on the Skyline Sedan (G35) or GT coupe and is said to use a 7 speed rear mounted sequentially shifted tranny.
 
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