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ofc not. I just hoped a moderator would encourage polite communication and statements supported by data. I see his response as patronizing and baseless. I already know that my opinion is unpopular, but i think it's healthy for the community consensus to be challenged. I have been listening to a lot of trash talk about the mk5 for old supra guys like me, and im challenging that a little
 

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"Your spouting unsupported opinions..."

Here is some of my unsupported opinions from Car & Driver...

"A back-to-back comparison with last-year's engine reveals the ignition coils, throttle bodies, engine cover, and the air intake are the same. The jump in power over last year's 335-hp rating is more than just a software change to BM (ahem), Toyota's turbocharged 3.0-liter inline-six. There's a new cylinder head with a six-port exhaust manifold instead of the previous six-into-two design. New pistons reduce the compression rate from 11.0:1 to 10.2:1, but that's offset by an increase in boost. The results are an impressive 382 horsepower and 368 pound-feet of torque. If those numbers sound familiar, they should. Those outputs, and this engine, are identical to the Z4 M40i's numbers. Toyota tells us that the new engine wasn't available to them for 2020. We can also imagine that maybe the Germans wanted to hold back all their best stuff, at least at first."

I make stuff up all the time. Did you get a 2021? If so, enjoy your cheese fries. They might have chili-cheese fries as an upgrade for the 2022 model year. Who knows.

254012
 

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ofc not. I just hoped a moderator would encourage polite communication and statements supported by data. I see his response as patronizing and baseless. I already know that my opinion is unpopular, but i think it's healthy for the community consensus to be challenged. I have been listening to a lot of trash talk about the mk5 for old supra guys like me, and im challenging that a little
Challenge all you want, did you expect your point of view on here to go unchallenged? Its boggling to assume creating conjecture will not manifest more conjecture.
 

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The 2021 isnt an upgrade. it is slower 0-60, too low for our roads, worse gas mileage.
The only part you got right was the worse gas mileage.

You said slower...
"Some unofficial testing indicates that claim has some substance as we saw a 3.5-second run to 60 mph, which is 0.2 seconds quicker than our long-term 2020 Supra. "

No mention of the 2021 being lower than the 2020...
"Toyota has made slight tweaks to the chassis so it plays nicely with its newfound muscle. While subtle, driving the 2020 and 2021 reveals some minor differences. Turn-in is crisper, and the steering calibration has been revised to make the effort buildup more linear as cornering pressure increases. The electronically controlled dampers received some massaging, and on our 10Best loop the updated Supra was less prone to using all of its suspension travel when plunging into the section with high-speed heaves. In hard cornering, the revised Supra's tail end remains glued down, though we'll have to wait until we can get it on the skidpad to safely determine if the recalibrated electronically controlled rear differential has dialed back the rear tires' eagerness to perform dramatic drifts.

Still no mention of lower in the specs, so the 2020 you said you own is just as bad as the 2021 in "lowness"...

DIMENSIONS (2020)
Wheelbase: 97.2 in
Length: 172.5 in
Width: 73.0 in
Height: 50.9 in
Passenger volume: 51 ft3
Cargo volume: 10 ft3
Curb weight: 3375 lb

DIMENSIONS (2021)
Wheelbase: 97.2 in
Length: 172.5 in
Width: 73.0 in
Height: 50.9 in
Passenger volume: 51 ft3
Cargo volume: 10 ft3
Curb weight: 3389 lb

You totally got me here and are therefore right about everything...
More power will almost always require more fuel, but in the case of the turbocharged 3.0-liter six, this engine continues to return surprising fuel economy. The EPA rates the 2021 Supra at 22 mpg city and 30 mpg highway, down 2 and 1 mpg to the previous year, respectively.

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its curious that two different test drives give different results. I can't really explain that. The reason it doesn't matter to me is that when/if i get to modding the mk5, stock parts will be plentiful and i will pick the best of all the model years plus aftermarket, fabricate whatever else I need and build the engine i want for my purpose. For now it suits me fine. Any improvements i will benefit from in a few years. I don't prefer the trend to make it more of a track car, but thats just my preference. The only thing that I really regret is the alignment issues in the rear end making it more unstable at high speed. that def sucks.
 

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Why would a higher horsepower, more boost friendly 10:1 compression engine with 6 exhaust runners (vs 2) be the shittier engine? If mpg mattered, you wouldn't be buying a 60k turbocharged sports car....
 

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I wonder whom ever he “sold” his MKV to if he informed and educated about the down fall of the MKV value? Or did he just simply do what Toyota/BMW did to him and cash that check and run?

Just a thought..
I don't think ever had one to begin wth, instead he just trolled the internet and Toyota.
 

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ofc not. I just hoped a moderator would encourage polite communication and statements supported by data. I see his response as patronizing and baseless. I already know that my opinion is unpopular, but i think it's healthy for the community consensus to be challenged. I have been listening to a lot of trash talk about the mk5 for old supra guys like me, and im challenging that a little
Glad I was kinda late to this one.

First - read the 'expectations of conduct' I posted as a sticky in this MK5 section'. Spoiler alert - a shitload of us that have been carrying the torch since the MK4's discontinuation are EXTREMELY fucking disappointed. If a BMW was sufficient, we'd have bought a 1M or 335i or whatever the fuck instead of keeping a 25+ year old Toyota alive. The fact that Tada-san and the rest of his team were that fucking dense is a disappointment, to put it mildly.

Now, you went from a MK3 to a Zupra and the Zupra is awesome to you, I'm glad you enjoy it and I mean that sincerely. But the new goddamn V6 Camry runs circles around any factory MK3 made, so it's really nothing special or surprising that the Zupra pleases you. I'm glad you like your Zupra and I hope you enjoy many many miles with it. But I don't give a flying fuck about that car, it is simply not a Supra to me and I have absolutely zero interest in it.
Sure, I was passionately pissed-the-fuck-off at the initial reveal but eventually I realized the MK5 for what it was - a business move for a partnership with BMW that profited Toyota a great deal. Letting BMW take the 'Supra monkey' off of Toyota's collective backs finally solved that problem with almost zero effort from Toyota. They just needed to sign a check and send a few assholes over there to watch it being made in Austria.

Having closely examined two 2020 Zupras up close now, I firmly believe there is less than 1% Toyota in that car if even that. So everyone going along with the 'its a Toyota' sham and continuing to pretend the emperor isn't butt-ass naked can do so and enjoy it all they want. But I wasn't willing to call the Dodge Stealth a Dodge either, and anyone thinking it was a product of Mama Mopar is widely considered to be pants-on-head retarded. Both the Stealth and the Zupra are purely badge-engineered products.
Truly, if Toyota cared about the Supra they'd have spent more than a bar tab's worth of effort on making it their own, especially when they have $2+ billion in development capital. The wails of 'they couldn't have done it cheaper' are total horse shit. Seeing a B58 engine in an RC350 based chassis gone 'because race car' weight reduction with a manual trans would be a true joint effort and have merited consideration, ala the Subaru/Toyota effort that gave us the GT86/FRS/BRZ.
But it's not. It's a BMW built purely out of BMW parts on a BMW production line with essentially zero Toyota involvement beyond badging and different exterior panels vs the BMW Z4. Just like the Stealth vs the 3000GT.

BMW accomplished Toyota's collective goal of just getting the Supra off of their plate. Toyota wants to make money and these days the future is in plug in hybrids, electric cars, and self driving technology, with trucks taking a close second. So as far as their own engineering efforts are concerned, sports cars aren't on their radar at all and they have zero fucks left to give about it, they're too busy crying into the wads of cash they make selling Priuses. So as long as you enjoy a car that's a total half-measure, a sub-contracted 'we don't care just do something' product borne of malicious compliance with a bonus 'fuck all of you MK4 owners', then by all means enjoy it.

Frankly I wish the MK5 had never existed. But they're here to stay and every decent sized Supra meet until the end of time will see the same Euro-car sort of enthusiast cliquey divides between the OG MK3/MK4 people and the MK5 people. And truly, that's the fucking worst part about it. The Supra community is forever fractured and SIV and similar meets will never be the same again because of it.
 

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Don't know if I read it here or somewhere else, but is it true the Toyota emblems for this car have BMW part numbers?
 

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Eclipse, laser talon. Stealth and 3000gt. Camaro and transam. Honda cr-v and saturn vue. Ford probe and mazda mx6. Ford ranger and mazda b2200. Chevy s10 and isuzu hombre. Fiat Agea and dodge dart. All the same cars. Now it's BMW z4 and toyota supra. Fucking sad. And I wish these Zupra owners would give BMW and thier community credit for thier car. They are the ones responsible for performance and available upgrades and what it's capable of. Toyota people aren't gonna do shit with that plateform that they haven't already done or figured out because of a emblem change
 

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I'm curious if anyone will actually buy the 4 cylinder J29 at that price. Europe was reporting it dynod at 215rwhp and the 2021 3.0 J29 isn't even tunable yet. It's a different Siemens software on the ECU. Is Toyota okay? Or is this still a Tada-San poop show
 

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..... Is Toyota okay? Or is this still a Tada-San poop show
Toyota's just fine - they're making money like crazy because they can't keep enough 4Runners, Tacomas, Tundras, or Priuses on the lots, so yeah.

But will they ever make their own actual Toyota sports car ever again? Probably not. If they did, would we give a shit about a wildly underpowered auto only un-tunable 'sports car' with Gillette electric razor styling and an MSRP about $10k more than a 450+hp, manual trans domestic? Fuck no.
 
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(Hybrid race car thing on instagram)
Must have missed the second part of my post. Except in that case, it'll be about 150k overpriced.

May as well not exist.
 

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Toyota's just fine - they're making money like crazy because they can't keep enough 4Runners, Tacomas, Tundras, or Priuses on the lots, so yeah.

But will they ever make their own actual Toyota sports car ever again? Probably not. If they did, would we give a shit about a wildly underpowered auto only un-tunable 'sports car' with Gillette electric razor styling and an MSRP about $10k more than a 450+hp, manual trans domestic? Fuck no.
Exactly what I've been saying, Toyota is #1 in the world their shareholders are happy they will just continue to focus on the bread and butter product line and could care less about in house sports cars. Just read plans were scrapped for a TTV8 for the LC-F. The F cars have had the same V8 since 2008. All my cars are Toyota, even my company-issued daily is a Prius lol, I like Toyota but there's no real fun or excitement when it comes to sports cars. I'm seriously considering the new Z will wait for the bugs to be worked out the first year and hope they offer a Nismo version.
 

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Round 2 of the great Supra chiseling has begun.


75k for special A91 Supra.....
 
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