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Not a Supra.

Not a MK5.

Your Z4 was gonna be worth a pack of gum by the end of the year regardless.

This is commonplace in the auto industry. They act like their new release is the second coming, perfect, and impossible to improve upon. They get as many suckers as they can to buy the car, and after they have swindled as many people as possible, they drop a new trim that's sooooo much better.

Look at the Challenger, just for a quick example.

You have the R/T 5.7, the SRT 6.1, then the ScatPack 6.4.

Then the Hellcat with the boosted 6.2. Everyone lost their mind. 700 horsepowurz??? Omggggg.

In talks with dealers, they acted like it was the hottest thing since sliced bread, and that they couldn't do any better.

I was like yyyyeeeaaa, you could. And you know you could. Why not just drop in the 6.4 with that supercharger and get it over with? Exactly.

I didn't make a deposit.

"Might wanna get one while you can! They are gonna stop producing them after this!" Etc.

No sale. I know better. What happens? They release the Demon.

Which interestingly, has the exact same 6.2. Not even different internals. All the Demon is, is a Hellcat with more boost, a different hood and different wheels. That's it. 100k price tag. Lol.

The Demon is soooo cool and soooo collectible, but they can't even step it up beyond a tune, hood and wheels.

Why can't they just put in a supercharged 6.4? Because they have to save that for the SUPER DUPER Demon, of course!

And guess what? Resale on Hellcats is complete bollocks.

BUT, BUT, BUT, BUT, BUT ITS GONNA BE AN IRREPLACEABLE COLLECTOR CAR THEY SAID.

When it comes to the hype from all automakers, if you're buyin' it they're sellin' it.

But Tada took it to a new level. Literally everything from that creature's mouth was a lie.

Next time invest your time, money and spirit into a real car.

This is why Supra MKIV, R32-34 GTR, FD RX7, S15 etc. are great cars, among other reasons.

You don't have to worry about them being pushed out by some new trim in 6 months like it's an iPhone.

Can't improve upon perfection ?
Check Elbow speaking the truth, whole truth and nothing but.


They offloaded the BMW cyl heads that had the manifold integrated into it and now they have no choice but to offer the same power plant as the Z4. Should have seen this coming all along. They are desperate to sell the car. That's also why the 255HP model is coming too.

Steve
More truth. This the BMW way. Surprised that the OP is surprised.


Ken.
 

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Check Elbow speaking the truth, whole truth and nothing but.


Ken.
Ken,

With the abundant attention the C8 is receiving, and rightfully so, how many iterations do you think we see before the line of sales via perfect storm conditions and diminishing returns via oversaturation will intersect?

I think this one will have the most numerous trim levels of any Vette ever produced, perhaps any sports at all.

1. It's a brand new Vette.

2. The move to mid-engine is such a radical improvement that:

A. It is innately a supercar contender for a fraction of the supercar price.

B. It'll be an extraordinary amount of time before a complete redesign is needed or wanted.

C. The mid-engine affords a completely separate tier of prowess, with it extrapolating any relatively minor increases in horsepower far beyond that of a front-engine vehicle resulting in a car that feels completely different from the trim below it, so multiple upon multiple trims offering small 5-15hp differences become very sellable, where in a normal front-engine car would go unnoticed and be considered wasted cash. Plus the factory warranty on said performance products.

If any performance car has a case for producing different trim levels and dangling the carrot, I think it's the C8.

And I ain't even mad, the car warrants it really.
 

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I would just wait because Toyota may release some software updates for the existing 2020 Supra owners.......
 

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Check,

I think you nailed it man. The C8 is a fundamental departure from the front engine rear drive architecture that has driven Corvettes from the very beginning. As such, I think the rear mid-engine car will drive Corvette production for as far into the future as we can see. Already, reliable sources predict three different motors in the near term, including the 6.2L small block the first C8 will be released with. According to sources, at some point, the car will also have a 5.5L DOHC twin turbo flat plane V8 (Z06) and a hybrid propulsion car (ZR-1) making upwards of 1,000 hp.

With engine weight in the back, already the base car is quicker to 60 mph (2.9 sec) than the most powerful C7s, so one can only imagine what more powerful cars will do, especially when you consider GM's penchant for doing right by the Corvette when more power is added (suspension changes, wheel/tire packages and brakes to name a few). Since vehicle dynamics engineers acknowledge the superiority of rear mid-engine designs over everything thing else, the intersection you ask about may not happen, IMO, and may go on as long as sports cars are a thing.

As you acknowledge, GM has had the additional hp and other design flourishes down for many years. I think the C8 just broadens the canvas for GM, even more so because the power additions will be more effectively utilized by the C8 as opposed to versions C1 though C7. In fact, the work done on those generations show just how talented and resourceful GM chassis engineers were in getting the front engine rear drive chassis to be as docile, well handling and tractable as they became over the years with ever more power being injected into those cars. With the C8, the potential iterations are virtually unlimited until business case analyses cull the outrageous from a price point of view to something the 'Vette's buying public can properly digest.


Ken.
 

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...pop the hood!
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curious as to whether or not the the guy who bought the first zupr4 for 2 million is gonna want some compensation and sign this petition...
 

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The irony in a mk5 owner saying Toyota ripped them off by giving them a lesser car is thicker than a turd in a mud puddle.
 

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Oh yawn. first of all, it doesn't look like much of an upgrade. maybe they reported low hp in 2020 so they could claim big gains in 2021 and sell more cars. Wait for the indep dyno tests. second, in the mod scene any improvement will be copied, improved further, and sold for less by someone. the people buying aftermarket parts will be selling their stock parts cheap. the car is awesome to drive. just enjoy it.
 

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I Can Has EBT?
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I would have been more pissed if Toyota would have scrapped the BMW platform and offered this same car with V35A TT from the new LS. The reality is the car did not sell the way Toyota anticipated, so they think putting another BMW motor in it will help with the sales. The limited models in Blue does look really good.

Resale value is on par with all other MB/BMW cars, horrible.
 

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curious as to whether or not the the guy who bought the first zupr4 for 2 million is gonna want some compensation and sign this petition...
Since that auction was for charity I'm sure that guy's happy to take his tax receipt and run.
 

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...pop the hood!
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Since that auction was for charity I'm sure that guy's happy to take his tax receipt and run.
yeah i realise...

that post was just my poor attempt at humor i guess.
 

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OP - I think you joined this forum about a year or two too late. I believe you would have seen this coming through the eyes of the experience here.
Sorry it comes to that - it is a hard lesson to learn.
 

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Taking a peek at the Daytona 500 today I saw Tada's Excus-O-Lux 2000 running at redline with all of the 'murican muscle Nascar drivers talking about "Supra is back!"

Really cramming it down your throat. An info-mercial begging you to buy. Like an attorney presenting exhibit A.

Lol. The Zupr4 is like a band that your religious parents recommend.

Beautiful things don't ask for attention.
 

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Uh oh they've noticed @CheckElbow lmao. I guess were "the other forum" now.??

248342


We didn't invade their forum with our Toyota but they felt the need to invade our forum with their BMW, and we're the bad guys? Well many of us won't accept that BMW among our ranks.
248343
 

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Supra MK5
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Discussion Starter #36
Thanks for all your replies, I realize I bought a bmw, unlike others I actually was happy with the fact that it’s a bmw with a Toyota badge, I owned multiple M cars, but was never fond of their looks, new Supra or as you’d call it Z4 was the bmw I’ve always wanted but they never made, I never understood the obsession with MK4 Supras or the 2JZ engine, every MK4 owner claims that MK4 is the best Supra ever yet a stock one couldn’t beat a Daewoo Matiz around the track, if it’s a pissing contest you guys want I can go all day about how overrated the MK4 is , but I’m not here for that, I started this thread for the MK5 owners who felt the same way as I did, not for the others or their hate messages, im not butthurt, nor mad, at all stages of my life I’ve always protected my and others rights in the name of fairness, if I can raise enough awareness and get a few hundred people to sign my petition I can at least show car manufacturers / big corporations that we aren’t stupid and they can’t just do whatever they want, by doing that we can at least ensure they respect their customers. It’s obviously too late for the current mk5 owners, as Toyota / bmw won’t just install new engines in our cars. It still is worth giving a shot to see what we can get from Toyota. So no this post is not about the MK5 or the MK4 , this post was never about how shitty the MK5 is, or how much you guys hate it, or how stupid I am for buying one, this post was meant to bring people together and seek fairness, I’m really disappointed that instead of taking a minute to sign the petition you decided to call me names, call the car piece of junk bmw, who gives a flying shit who makes the car, we are all bunch of car enthusiast at the end of the day, what we drive really matters that much ? We can’t just support our choices and the community?
 

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Thanks for all your replies, I realize I bought a bmw, unlike others I actually was happy with the fact that it’s a bmw with a Toyota badge, I owned multiple M cars, but was never fond of their looks, new Supra or as you’d call it Z4 was the bmw I’ve always wanted but they never made, I never understood the obsession with MK4 Supras or the 2JZ engine, every MK4 owner claims that MK4 is the best Supra ever yet a stock one couldn’t beat a Daewoo Matiz around the track, if it’s a pissing contest you guys want I can go all day about how overrated the MK4 is , but I’m not here for that, I started this thread for the MK5 owners who felt the same way as I did, not for the others or their hate messages, im not butthurt, nor mad, at all stages of my life I’ve always protected my and others rights in the name of fairness, if I can raise enough awareness and get a few hundred people to sign my petition I can at least show car manufacturers / big corporations that we aren’t stupid and they can’t just do whatever they want, by doing that we can at least ensure they respect their customers. It’s obviously too late for the current mk5 owners, as Toyota / bmw won’t just install new engines in our cars. It still is worth giving a shot to see what we can get from Toyota. So no this post is not about the MK5 or the MK4 , this post was never about how shitty the MK5 is, or how much you guys hate it, or how stupid I am for buying one, this post was meant to bring people together and seek fairness, I’m really disappointed that instead of taking a minute to sign the petition you decided to call me names, call the car piece of junk bmw, who gives a flying shit who makes the car, we are all bunch of car enthusiast at the end of the day, what we drive really matters that much ? We can’t just support our choices and the community?
I was one of the loudest and most vehement anti-BMW sorts around here until recently.
It's exhausting and at this point will change nothing and I don't care to keep riding that horse. There was a cusp where perhaps Toyota could have adjusted their ways, but that ship has sailed and the Zupra is here to stay.
I genuinely hope it is successful for Toyota and thereby perhaps encourages them to build a MK6 that is all Toyota instead. But I strongly doubt that will happen.

To your point - Toyota owes you absolutely fucking regardless of the number of petitions you start, sign, etc. The car was not misrepresented. They did not warranty your 2020 Supra experience against being worse than the 2021 Supra experience. You can bitch piss and moan about it all you want, but Toyota owes you nothing.
Toyota doesn't owe the MK3 or MK4 owners like me a damn thing either, all we can do is yell loud enough to be heard as a potential market for parts and support for them to MAKE MONEY.
You represent a very small demographic where the BMW part was appealing but you loathed the BMW styling. When these MK5 specs were first announced and it was widely known that the BMW was getting the better engine, not a SINGLE FUCKING PERSON here or anywhere else in the Car-internet world thought that was a good idea, and we saw the writing on the wall for a "TRD" model or similar to get the actually superior engine.

To see the better engine stuffed into the whole 2021 lineup is a simple and very clear move by Toyota responding to the massive collective shrug and 'meh' that sounded again, literally everywhere on the internet where cars are discussed, when the abjectly fucking pathetic 335hp figure was announced.
I can buy a 5.0L Mustang or a Camaro SS with a BY GOD THREE FUCKING PEDAL MANUAL TRANSMISSION, bigger brakes, more tire, and almost 100 more fucking horsepower, for LESS MONEY.
Sure, the slalom numbers and lap times and even the 0-60 tests may show the Zupra as the peer or superior to those cars in performance, but Americans buy horsepower and bragging rights first, and a fast car second. Toyota wildly fucking missed that mark, just as they wildly missed that we love Toyota for the Japanese build quality, attention to detail, and endurance - not because of the Toyota logo or any of their unbelievably stupid lifestyle branding or Instagram 'It's Lit' posts.

It is unfortunate that you feel victimized by Toyota's monolithic and tone-deaf behavior, but welcome to the world of being a Supra enthusiast, and welcome also to buying a first-year flavor of a brand new car. A BMW to boot, which already has a very established depreciation curve that already approaches terminal velocity.
Trust me, we understand the feeling of betrayal. With the MK5 'Supra' we just enjoyed the automotive equivalent of staying true to our woman for decades hoping she'd put out, only to wait 20 years for a grumpy half-assed handjob and a divorce decree.

Toyota gave us this BMW Zupra because it was the simplest and most effective path to put a MK5 Supra using FT1 styling in Toyota showrooms while requiring the minimum capital outlay required. Many folks claim that Toyota could not have built a Supra of their own for a lower MSRP. To claim that when Toyota has literally billions in available capital is so jumped-up-your-own-ass retarded that I struggle to follow their logic. The claim that Toyota simply made the most Japanese and risk-averse decision available to make this MK5 would be accurate, and letting BMW do all the work made it that much easier. BMW buys hybrid and battery tech from Toyota, Toyota gets the Supra monkey off their back, Toyota has to do basically fucking nothing. Win-Win-Win. For Toyota.
Toyota doesn't understand why GM puts so much effort and love into their Camaro and Corvette owners. Or why Ford puts so much love into the Mustang, or why Dodge saw fit to revive and keep pumping horsepower into the Challenger and Charger. It doesn't make sense financially from a 'I build appliances and want maximum sales and margins' perspective.
It's effort that could make more money elsewhere but sometimes it's just not about making more money and Toyota has shown absolutely zero evidence that they understand it as a corporate whole. Small pockets of that love for cars exist within Toyota, yes, but as a corporate cultural icon the Supra isn't the cherished prince of the brand - it's a fucking Prius instead.

Congrats on your purchase and I hope you enjoy it for many years. I would personally recommend that the best course to avoid the BMW depreciation curve is to keep the car for many years, and put a ton of miles on it. Ultimately, enjoyed miles on the road is all that really matters when it comes to a good car.

So enjoy it as is through the warranty period and then go ham with the aftermarket potential available once the warranty is up.
I would stockpile the parts needed now while the aftermarket is focused on the 2020 model because the aftermarket is sure to shift toward supporting the 2021+ models in short order. One could likely time that shifting focus and catch some of those parts for a deal.

Good luck and happy driving.
 

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Discussion Starter #38
I was one of the loudest and most vehement anti-BMW sorts around here until recently.
It's exhausting and at this point will change nothing and I don't care to keep riding that horse. There was a cusp where perhaps Toyota could have adjusted their ways, but that ship has sailed and the Zupra is here to stay.
I genuinely hope it is successful for Toyota and thereby perhaps encourages them to build a MK6 that is all Toyota instead. But I strongly doubt that will happen.

To your point - Toyota owes you absolutely fucking regardless of the number of petitions you start, sign, etc. The car was not misrepresented. They did not warranty your 2020 Supra experience against being worse than the 2021 Supra experience. You can bitch piss and moan about it all you want, but Toyota owes you nothing.
Toyota doesn't owe the MK3 or MK4 owners like me a damn thing either, all we can do is yell loud enough to be heard as a potential market for parts and support for them to MAKE MONEY.
You represent a very small demographic where the BMW part was appealing but you loathed the BMW styling. When these MK5 specs were first announced and it was widely known that the BMW was getting the better engine, not a SINGLE FUCKING PERSON here or anywhere else in the Car-internet world thought that was a good idea, and we saw the writing on the wall for a "TRD" model or similar to get the actually superior engine.

To see the better engine stuffed into the whole 2021 lineup is a simple and very clear move by Toyota responding to the massive collective shrug and 'meh' that sounded again, literally everywhere on the internet where cars are discussed, when the abjectly fucking pathetic 335hp figure was announced.
I can buy a 5.0L Mustang or a Camaro SS with a manual transmission, bigger brakes, more tire, and almost 100 more fucking horsepower, for LESS MONEY.
Sure, the slalom numbers and lap times and even the 0-60 tests may show the Zupra as the peer or superior to those cars in performance, but Americans buy horsepower and bragging rights first, and a fast car second. Toyota wildly fucking missed that mark, just as they wildly missed that we love Toyota for the Japanese build quality, attention to detail, and endurance - not because of the Toyota logo or any of their unbelievably stupid lifestyle branding or Instagram 'It's Lit' posts.

It is unfortunate that you feel victimized by Toyota's monolithic and tone-deaf behavior, but welcome to the world of being a Supra enthusiast, and welcome also to buying a first-year flavor of a brand new car. A BMW to boot, which already has a very established depreciation curve that already approaches terminal velocity.
Trust me, we understand the feeling of betrayal. With the MK5 'Supra' we just enjoyed the automotive equivalent of staying true to our woman for decades hoping she'd put out, only to wait 20 years for a grumpy half-assed handjob and a divorce decree.

Toyota gave us this BMW Zupra because it was the simplest and most effective path to put a MK5 Supra using FT1 styling in Toyota showrooms while requiring the minimum capital outlay required. Many folks claim that Toyota could not have built a Supra of their own for a lower MSRP. To claim that when Toyota has literally billions in available capital is so jumped-up-your-own-ass retarded that I struggle to follow their logic. The claim that Toyota simply made the most Japanese and risk-averse decision available to make this MK5 would be accurate, and letting BMW do all the work made it that much easier. BMW buys hybrid and battery tech from Toyota, Toyota gets the Supra monkey off their back, Toyota has to do basically fucking nothing. Win-Win-Win. For Toyota.
Toyota doesn't understand why GM puts so much effort and love into their Camaro and Corvette owners. Or why Ford puts so much love into the Mustang, or why Dodge saw fit to revive and keep pumping horsepower into the Challenger and Charger. It doesn't make sense financially from a 'I build appliances and want maximum sales and margins' perspective.
It's effort that could make more money elsewhere but sometimes it's just not about making more money and Toyota has shown absolutely zero evidence that they understand it as a corporate whole. Small pockets of that love for cars exist within Toyota, yes, but as a corporate cultural icon the Supra isn't the cherished prince of the brand - it's a fucking Prius instead.

Congrats on your purchase and I hope you enjoy it for many years. I would personally recommend that the best course to avoid the BMW depreciation curve is to keep the car for many years, and put a ton of miles on it. Ultimately, enjoyed miles on the road is all that really matters when it comes to a good car.

So enjoy it as is through the warranty period and then go ham with the aftermarket potential available once the warranty is up.
I would stockpile the parts needed now while the aftermarket is focused on the 2020 model because the aftermarket is sure to shift toward supporting the 2021+ models in short order. One could likely time that shifting focus and catch some of those parts for a deal.

Good luck and happy driving.
You are right, everything you said I agree with, Toyota doesn’t owe us anything either, they didn’t promise us anything, I get it all, I’m sure the MK5 was a huge slap on the face for you guys, and I feel your pain because I am a die hard Viper fan who used to own a 94 first gen viper just to see fiat to ruin it for me with the last gen viper, but this is exactly what I’m trying to accomplish here, I’m trying to get these corporates to hear us, understand us, Toyota surely focused on boring cars because of high margins, and great sales, it’s their bread n butter, I guess they felt pressured into making the mk5 Supra and they aren’t too happy they even bothered making it, so yes they don’t care, but at the end of the day it’s still almost 60k and there are a lot of cars that represent better value for that kinda value, I think it’s just bad business practices to slap my20 owners with a 4 cylinder car then a better 6 cylinder car, I cancelled my C8 to get a Supra ,I have no regrets , I love the car, and plan to drive it until it falls apart, luckily I got 7 years / 100k miles warranty with it.
 

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Man, quite a bit of similarities between the OG Vipers and the Gen V. Sure, the Gen V has absolutely explosive performance potential not unlike the Zupra, but it lost a lot of the character and charm of the Viper in prior generations.
Personally I feel like the Gen V Viper is much less of a letdown than the MKV is, but there's a common theme between them for sure.

Glad you got the extended warranty, I imagine that will be worth the investment. But boy howdy my modding bug would have me counting down the days until I could modify the crap out of it!
 
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