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Discussion Starter #1
OK, I have some questions.

I just finished my system install. And it sounds incredible. But I am going to upgrade in the future when the money comes around. I am looking to get 2 10" Eclipse 88100TiDVC Dual 4ohm subs. And a single MMATS amplifier.

My questions is, what amplifier would be the best choice to mate to these subs for pure SPL??

here are the choices...

D100HC = 1200W @ 0.67Ohm
D200HC = 1200W @ 1.00Ohm
D300HC = 1200W @ 2.00Ohm

Now to my understanding it would be better for me to get the D300HC and bridge it correct??

If I am not correct what would be the way to go with this setup? Lower ohm amp??

Just looking to get the most thump out of this, also if there are any other amps I should be looking at let me hear em. I kinda want to stick to these subs. But if there are a better set of 10" subs for SPL let me hear them as well. What I am basically looking for here is a crushing sound system that consist of 2 10" subs. So I can pretty much annialate the sound competitions next summer. Thanks in advance for any help.
 
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Discussion Starter #2 (Edited)
88100TiDVC subs are rated @ 3.86 > 4.00 per coil

Reason is they actually vary across diff frequencies.

So if you run the coils in parallel then each sub will be rated at 1.93 < 2.00 ohms.

If you ran them in series then each sub will be @ 7.72 < 8.00 ohms

The load to the amp will be:

parallel (parallel coils) = 0.962 < @ < 1.00 ohms

Parallel (series coils) = 3.36 < @ < 4.00 ohms

Series (parallel coils) = 3.86 < @ < 4.00 ohms

Series (series coils) = 15.44 < @ < 16.00 ohms

Basically use the D2, and just make sure you feed the eclipses with a lot of air and you should be smokin.

Ps the eclipses will swallow an easy 1000 a piece, and up to 1700 for short blips, so no less the 2500 on them at 1.00 ohms

Ear plugs??
 
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Discussion Starter #3
Aight cool. I see. Now, I would have to change my new box for the new subs :(

Or maybe I can modify it somehow. Anyways that's later. What do you think bout this setup? Recommend anything different? Sub or Amp??

What about that MA Audio amp we were talking about? THe 4,000 watt one?? How will that do?
 
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Discussion Starter #4
I fixed up my post earlier, sorry it was 5:30 in the morning and I just got home

These MA audio amps will do you quite well

Model: HC2502 This amp you'll max its output with the eclipse subs

Model: HC4002 This amp will most likely kill the subs, depending on the enclosure.

MA audio amp specs

MMATS

You will have to use the HC series amps to push the eclipses

MMATS D class specs

you can get away with one d3hc but you will be asking a lot from that amp.
If you use 2 d2hc, then that would be a better match.

Tito, just make another sub box for the spl comps or make an abc box with adjustable ports. With the adjustable ports, you will be able to use it for listening as well as for spl comps.

Eclipse subs specs

As for any other amps, I would be carfull, because those eclipses are power hungry, and tend to eat amps. Even the PG specialty amps don't have enough in them to make those subs fly.

I will look around for a few more companies and see what else will survive
 
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Discussion Starter #5
Damn, those subs are hungry huh.

I am still kind of interested in checking out that MA Audio amp. The HC4002, with the gains down, what do you think? Will this hamper performance?

I would change the enclosure for SPL. What do you recommend? I really dont want to go with two amplifiers. Trying to go with a nice clean setup 2 10"subs and a single amp. Clean and simple, but able to destroy the competititon.

I think I am definately going with the eclipse subs. Still undecided on the amp though...

Thanks for all the help man.
 
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Discussion Starter #6
Yeah, the titaniums are very hungry, and they seem to like to be abused.

The MA Audio HC4002 is probably your best amp for these subs, it be a very nice combo. Good thing is that you will be able to turn up the gains, if yar down by a few points. Will act just like an n20. hehe. Price is definetly good, on that amp

Everyday driving mght be ruff, depends if you like to hold conversations or not? Even if you have the gains turned all the way down, the volume will not increase very smoothly, it will go quiet to boom, with the very fine vol adjustments. Just make sure you have a good line driver, and the controls very close to you, and you should be okay.

Beauty of adjustable ports is that you can lengthen them for sound quality, and shorten them for spl. Another option will be to build an optiumum ported enclosure, and cap the ports when not competing.
 
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Discussion Starter #7
What I am basically looking for here is a crushing sound system that consist of 2 10" subs. So I can pretty much annialate the sound competitions next summer. Thanks in advance for any help.
Hm not being a dick here or anything, but a pair of 10's won't exactly annihilate an SPL competition.. :) There's always some guy with a minitruck stuffed with 15's...

Coming from the been-there-done-that files, I can tell you that you'll be coming back to something more mellow after you try to out-boom everyone though. I always had a high quality front stage with components in the kick panels, but in the bass department I started off with a pair of 10's and about 100W... moved up to 4 12's and about 500W.. still wasn't satisfied so I upgraded to higher quality 12's and 1200W in the same setup.. still wasn't happy so I went to 8 12's and 1200W.. that system completely ruled...sounded amazing and won plenty of competitions, but I still wanted more so I took the car apart and did 4 18's with about 5000W and a dumb chick rearended me and destroyed the whole thing a week later. My next car had a single 12" sub and about 600W. Now I have 3 10's and about 1000W of power laying in my closet waiting to get dropped into the Supra. Moral of the story: You'll eventually go back to something smaller, so if you do upgrade your stuff, keep the old things around! ;)

I saw some pics of your install in another thread and it looks killer. I always like to see people do clean installs without wires hanging out, crooked boxes with vinyl stapled to them, etc.. well done man.

-R
 
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Discussion Starter #8
That's why there are different power classes. At least up here SPL has classes. Depending on wattage, and subwoofer size I beleive. With my last setup I was in the 261-360 class. Took many first place trophies.

I have had KILLER systems before. I like the bass, maybe cuz im still young. :D

What was that 8 sub system in? Sounds insane. What was the SPL on that?

Thanks on the install. Took me awhile but it came out how I wanted it.

When I upgrade I want a clean sounding system but I also want it to POUND when i want it to.

Ear Candy, has had some nasty systems too, he knows alot of shit about stereos. He's my go to guy.
 
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Discussion Starter #9
Robin said:


Hm not being a dick here or anything, but a pair of 10's won't exactly annihilate an SPL competition.. :) There's always some guy with a minitruck stuffed with 15's...
You speak with maturity Robin, but to each his own. You don't need 5000w and 4 18's to hit high spl, all it takes is the right set up.

See I like to have it all, a system that can kick, sounds outstanding, and a car that hauls ass. But that is just me, and it is not for everyone. I do agree the primary functionality of the system is to sound good. But I also like to show up those kids with 4+ subs that just spent huge cash and had their vehicle built by my competition. They hit good numbers, but showing someone up with a "smaller system" is the fun part. If you know your stuff, and like the whole physics behind it, then it becomes a passion. Hence my livelihood.

Take for example:
The last competition of the season. I was building a vehicle when finished I sent it home with the owner, 2 days before the even the car gets smashed. So with 1 1/2 days to go I had to build something and fast. Well I had no choice but to use my vehicle, and equipment I had around.

Long story short, I worked all day and night with no sleep. Funny part is that I had to uninstall my everyday system and redo everything. The competition began at 11:00am I didn't fire up the system until 10:10 am that morning and I still needed to reassemble the interior, so that I could stay in my street class. Well unfortunately I didn't get to tune the system or even put the mic in for a dry run. As well this was not enough time for the glue to cure properly and the back wall of the sub box separated in my first run. But I still managed to hit 156 db, so not too bad, check out the pics.



Tito, always kind words... ;)
 
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Discussion Starter #10
Man I banged out a big 3-screen-filling response and my browser crashed. argh.

Anyway I know all about wanting it both ways. In my old car I had a switch to turn off the amps that powered the subs, so the 4 6" midbasses took care of the low end.. or I'd just leave the sub volume control all the way down and it would actually sound like 1 12".. That used to surprise the crap out of people when they'd hop in for a listen and I'd throw on some jazz or something mellow. That's the best way to go and I actually miss that stupid little Ford (it was a 92 Escort GT...) The one website that had all the pics has been down for years, but there's still a few pics at http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/4601/ssscorts.html if you scroll down the left to "Robin Overcash's 92 Escort GT"... Just don't make any comments about the car, I was young :D I never got any pictures of the 4 18's setup since it was never fully finished before the car got totalled.

I'm not sure what the deal is with SPL competitions anymore. The 8 12's setup consistently did 148.something dB at every competition I went to. The 4 18's setup only got on the mic once and burped out 153.something in an untuned, not-yet-finished state. This was always done with a meter that was calibrated for IASCA use, with the mic on a stand on the driver's seat. I don't understand how those 2 12's could hit 156 dB.. I don't doubt you, it just boggles my mind. I realize the technology has improved, but jeez.. I remember when it was a huge deal when the 160 barrier got broken by something like 32 10's and 50,000W of power in a truck with 1" lexan windows and a driver's compartment that closed with a 1' thick sealed door with a bank vault handle... and now people are almost doing that with a pair of 12's in a pickup? Are these readings done with the mic in the port of the sub enclosure or what? SPL is just pressure in the car, and the pressure is created by cones moving back and forth, leaving the biggest factors to cone area and excursion. How a pair of 12's can move more air than 4 18"s with excursion limits of 1" is beyond me. Sometimes I wonder what my car would have done in one of today's competitions...hmmmm :)

-R
 
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Discussion Starter #11
Robin said:
I'm not sure what the deal is with SPL competitions anymore. The 8 12's setup consistently did 148.something dB at every competition I went to. The 4 18's setup only got on the mic once and burped out 153.something in an untuned, not-yet-finished state. This was always done with a meter that was calibrated for IASCA use, with the mic on a stand on the driver's seat. I don't understand how those 2 12's could hit 156 dB.. I don't doubt you, it just boggles my mind. I realize the technology has improved, but jeez.. I remember when it was a huge deal when the 160 barrier got broken by something like 32 10's and 50,000W of power in a truck with 1" lexan windows and a driver's compartment that closed with a 1' thick sealed door with a bank vault handle... and now people are almost doing that with a pair of 12's in a pickup? Are these readings done with the mic in the port of the sub enclosure or what? SPL is just pressure in the car, and the pressure is created by cones moving back and forth, leaving the biggest factors to cone area and excursion. How a pair of 12's can move more air than 4 18"s with excursion limits of 1" is beyond me. Sometimes I wonder what my car would have done in one of today's competitions...hmmmm :)
Cute escort by the way... :) We all gotta start somewhere...

BTW good call on the 12's I reread my post and I didn't mention the size of the subs -----> good one!

Your 8-12's they were in a sealed enclosure?? How many watts??

Reading was spl db dragracing, audio control 180db mic, but the thing is that she kicked the back wall, so I couldn't reverify the reading for run #2 so I lost the comp...:(

My set up was.... 12 dvc's down to 1 ohm, 7 foot^3 abc enclosure, tuned for 36 hz. I fed the subs with 950 watts and with a bit of current surge I think (not 100% sure, I dont have a peak meter) I saw 1130 for a little burst. The big secret is a big big bass boost at 40hz, so basically it was the bass boost fed through the amp, on spl tune disc and the source bass maxed out...

Guys are hitting 180+ now a days, seems like there is a record broken every week, the competitions are become very very intense... the days of 10 subs a huge amp wood nails and some glue are long gone. The technology is whats winning the comps these days, actually its bending the rules with little tricks that's winning, but you didn't hear that from me...:D
 
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Ahhhh cheater ;) Ya I remember participating in some competitions with very loose rules.. people would be sticking the mic in the port on the enclosure, yelling into it, banging it on the dash, etc.. I always hated that. I'm sure there are more technology-related tricks up everyone's sleeves these days. I never really bothered with that stuff.. I had a Rockford OEQ2 (quasi-parametric.. bitch to tune) that I set up for sound quality and never changed. I could have adjusted it to boost 30hz by +20 and toss in a 30hz test tone or something, but never felt the need.. I was more interested in good sound with the ability to shake my intestines loose if I felt the urge. It's all about having a head unit with a sub-out with its own volume control....

Thanks the the compliments on the car :p What can I say, at least it had a Supra wing on it.. :D The subs were JL 12w0's.. there were two separate sealed enclosures of 7 ft^3 per side. That comes out to 1.75 ft^3 per sub, which is the best size for those. The amps that powered the wall were two Rockford Punch 50m's bridged together at 1 ohm for about 1000W total. That puts it at roughly 125W per sub, which is right on spec for the w0's... I really can't describe just how good it sounded. Wish I still had that thing. I also had a Punch400x4 running 4 6" JL's for midbass and a set of Boston Acoustics Pro Series in the kick panels. The only problem I really had with it was a low soundstage.. it hovered around middle-of-the-dash height instead of being up on the hood, but it was wide and deep. Always got compliments from the judges for that...

Anyway I guess I'll have to pick up a magazine or find a local competition somewhere.. I haven't been keeping up with car audio the way I used to. I recently tossed out about 7 years worth of CSR, AS&S, and CA&E. Since I got rid of the Escort I've had a kind of "been there, done that" attitude about it.. I'm still fiending to get my system in the Supra though. I have a bunch of goodies that have been waiting in my closet for over a year now.. just gotta save up for the proper install :cool:

laters,
R
 

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Subs

Tito, if you're looking for just 2 10's that are going to slam, have you looked at the 10" HCCA's? I've had 1 12" HCCA in the back of a GMC Jimmy with 800 watts in a 2ft^3 box hitting a 146.6 and right now i've got one 15" HCCA in the trunk of a Grand Am GT hittin 150.2 off 1500. As far as amps go, look at the new Cadence stuff, the Z777 and the Z7000, both are 1500 watt amps, but the Z777 is a class D. both are 1500 @1ohm and [email protected] ohm. 2 10's in the hatch of a civic would be ruthless. if you have any questions, just holla.
 
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I've seen em but I have never really payed much attention to them. How's the SQ? Never heard them in person. They are rather inexpensive too. I was looking into the Eclipse Titaniums. Almost double the price.

Also, these Cadance amps. Who makes them? Have any specs. on em? Or a website maybe? Thanks man.
 

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Tito, Cadence is it's own company. They've been around for a while, but have never had a whole lot of publicity. go to www.cadencesound.com for some info on their stuff, they just redesigned all their models for this year. As far as the HCCA's go, they sound exceptionally clean when put in the right enclosure. I'd say a 1.8-2.5 ft^3 enclusure per sub tuned to 35-38 hz would make your ears pop pretty good. Yeah, the Titaniums are a bit expensive, i have a friend who had his Impala done by custom sounds, 2 15" Titaniums and he's only hitting 146. He spent 10k at Custom and they did one of the worst jobs i've ever seen a professional do. Im in the process of rebuilding his system right now, lots and lots of fiberglass involved. If you have any questions on prices for anything, let me know, we carry about every major brand you could dream of.
 
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