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411 HP GSXR / 203 HP Vrod
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Discussion Starter #1
I have a '95 Supra Auto with a T04R Turbo kit, 720 injectors, large intercooler, twin supra fuel pumps, fuel pressure regulator, VPC, AFC-R and EVC 4. The install was performed at Paisleys Shop in NY but I live in MD so I contacted Billy Cha at Altered Atmosphere to get this thing in for a few pulls on the dyno. Since this was my first time on the dyno with the single kit, I was eager to see what kind of HP I was putting down. Once at Altered, Mike (Owner) and his dad got me on the dyno and on the first pull I got 401 HP @ 17 psi boost. WTF! I was beside myself! The car was running very rich so Mike tuned the AFC-R and moved the boost up to 20 where the car made 445 HP a few runs later. 445? What in the hell is going on? My compression is between 150 and 155 on all cylinders and my tranny shifts great so where is my lost HP? The plugs have been in the car since the single install back in June but it looks as if I'm down 100 HP from where I should be. Could plugs make this much of a difference?
 

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Well it's hard to determine anything without knowing more detailed information but I would think you have enough listed there to get you over 500hp. Changing plugs will help, but not 100hp's worth...If the plugs were that bad you would notice it. Have you checked for leaks on exhaust and pressure side? What are the specs for the Turbo you're running?
 

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411 HP GSXR / 203 HP Vrod
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Discussion Starter #4
The turbo has a .96 AR housing. There must be a serious leak somewhere... It's mind boggling though because even when I was BPU it was kinda low on power also...
 

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HKS T04R said:
The turbo has a .96 AR housing. There must be a serious leak somewhere... It's mind boggling though because even when I was BPU it was kinda low on power also...
you said you were low on power when you were BPU? what do you mean low on power when BPU?
 
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post your dyno sheet

is there obvious stuttering at high rpms on the sheet?
 

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GA Rocks!
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Let me guess...PUMP GAS? Copper plugs are only good for 3k. Derek Wang's t-78 at 19 boost put down 499 rwhp. So u aren't that far off especially since u have an auto. Put some race gas and crank that boost to 26 psi and post what u have then.

sid
 

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411 HP GSXR / 203 HP Vrod
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Discussion Starter #8
Supra 178, what I was referring to about being low on power with BPU was the fact that the installer of my EVC and VPC told me that my Supra was one of the "Softer" Supras that he had modified. My best quarter mile at BPU was 12.80 @ 114.
Sidwin, yea I was on pump gas at the time of the dyno runs and the temps were 72 degrees. The uncorrected HP was roughly 15 HP higher than corrected. The spark plugs are 9 months old and are HKS Iridiums. I'm going to replace them with the 3330's today just in case. What gap should I use? BTW, the guy on the dyno just before me had a '97 Supra 6 speed with a T-78 and made 540 HP at 20 PSI. With those numbers I would assume the dyno was working properly...
 

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HKS T04R said:
Supra 178, what I was referring to about being low on power with BPU was the fact that the installer of my EVC and VPC told me that my Supra was one of the "Softer" Supras that he had modified. My best quarter mile at BPU was 12.80 @ 114.
Sidwin, yea I was on pump gas at the time of the dyno runs and the temps were 72 degrees. The uncorrected HP was roughly 15 HP higher than corrected. The spark plugs are 9 months old and are HKS Iridiums. I'm going to replace them with the 3330's today just in case. What gap should I use? BTW, the guy on the dyno just before me had a '97 Supra 6 speed with a T-78 and made 540 HP at 20 PSI. With those numbers I would assume the dyno was working properly...
I couldn't imagine a T78 on 19psi with pumped gas will only put out 499hp. I thought it would be more hp. what are your dyno numbers when you were bpu? do you have your dyno sheet for the T78 also??
 

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Well, I think we all understand that there is definitely a problem and it seems like it would be something simple... Once again...seeing your dyno sheets can help us make a better determination.
You say that the car was down on power, even before going to a single turbo setup. Based on that I would think there is another problem not related to the turbo. Does your check engine light come on? If the timing belt has been replaced, have you checked your ignition timing? Do you have adjustable cam gears?
You can try to disconnect the vacuum lines to the wastegate, if the car feels more responsive then there is a problem with your EVC 4 connections. Your waste gate could be prematurely opening, creating the internal leak. Was this a new turbo or used...even if the turbo appears to be in good shape, no play , spins freely, the turbine blades edges (not visible) can be easily cooked and also reduce power. Another common leak is loose spark plugs, this can also attributte to power loss.
As for fuel, you have the proper hardware necessary, provided it is all properly installed...I personally don't think the AFC-R is of any help when used in conjunction with the VPC even though many people THINK it does. I personally cannot comment on the twin supra fuel pump mod... but I would be very concerned about how they were installed. Are you monitoring your fuel pressure? How about your exhaust temperature? This will determine if you're running rich or lean. This can also be determined by inspecting your spark plugs. If you're using HKS iridium spark plugs(the best damn plugs into world):) you're probably running a heat range 7 which is a colder plug.I don't think your car gets hot enough on a dyno to run to that range...just use the new stock iridiums, and forget about using the outdated copper crap.
 

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GA Rocks!
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I run the ik22 in my car. I leave them gapped .030. That is what they came with. PHR put the 3330 in my car and I didn't like them. Idled suck! SP runs ik22 and they have 10k in miles on some of their cars. New plugs will give u a little bit.. 10 rwhp.

What was your a/f looking like. Please post your dyno sheet with your a/f. 500 rwhp is obtainable on pump gas at 20 psi with the to4r safely. I am guessing to say sounds like a rich pig causing you grief.

Sid

HKS T04R said:
Supra 178, what I was referring to about being low on power with BPU was the fact that the installer of my EVC and VPC told me that my Supra was one of the "Softer" Supras that he had modified. My best quarter mile at BPU was 12.80 @ 114.
Sidwin, yea I was on pump gas at the time of the dyno runs and the temps were 72 degrees. The uncorrected HP was roughly 15 HP higher than corrected. The spark plugs are 9 months old and are HKS Iridiums. I'm going to replace them with the 3330's today just in case. What gap should I use? BTW, the guy on the dyno just before me had a '97 Supra 6 speed with a T-78 and made 540 HP at 20 PSI. With those numbers I would assume the dyno was working properly...
 

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Bad Karma Supra
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choritsu-shi said:
Well, I think we all understand that there is definitely a problem and it seems like it would be something simple... Once again...seeing your dyno sheets can help us make a better determination.
You say that the car was down on power, even before going to a single turbo setup. Based on that I would think there is another problem not related to the turbo. Does your check engine light come on? If the timing belt has been replaced, have you checked your ignition timing? Do you have adjustable cam gears?
You can try to disconnect the vacuum lines to the wastegate, if the car feels more responsive then there is a problem with your EVC 4 connections. Your waste gate could be prematurely opening, creating the internal leak. Was this a new turbo or used...even if the turbo appears to be in good shape, no play , spins freely, the turbine blades edges (not visible) can be easily cooked and also reduce power. Another common leak is loose spark plugs, this can also attributte to power loss.
As for fuel, you have the proper hardware necessary, provided it is all properly installed...I personally don't think the AFC-R is of any help when used in conjunction with the VPC even though many people THINK it does. I personally cannot comment on the twin supra fuel pump mod... but I would be very concerned about how they were installed. Are you monitoring your fuel pressure? How about your exhaust temperature? This will determine if you're running rich or lean. This can also be determined by inspecting your spark plugs. If you're using HKS iridium spark plugs(the best damn plugs into world):) you're probably running a heat range 7 which is a colder plug.I don't think your car gets hot enough on a dyno to run to that range...just use the new stock iridiums, and forget about using the outdated copper crap.
This guy makes some good points. The T04R is a pretty big turbo - you should easily break 500rwhp @ 20psi. On pump gas, "normal" plugs...etc - I put down [email protected] w/a T76.

If your car was "soft" before, throwing on a big turbo isn't the answer. Check the vacum lines, perhaps your wastegate is opening too soon - spring not strong enough. As with everyone else, can we see the dyno chart?!

Also, take a look at your static fuel pressure, somehow mine was off on my low boost pulls, and it dramatically effect my rwhp - once we fixed it - no problems!

Under high boost we dump in straight....Straight race gas and swap to a much colder plug...I wouldn't run the cold plugs on pump gas normally - track only.

Jay
 

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Philly Single said:


This guy makes some good points. The T04R is a pretty big turbo - you should easily break 500rwhp @ 20psi. On pump gas, "normal" plugs...etc - I put down [email protected] w/a T76.

If your car was "soft" before, throwing on a big turbo isn't the answer. Check the vacum lines, perhaps your wastegate is opening too soon - spring not strong enough. As with everyone else, can we see the dyno chart?!

Also, take a look at your static fuel pressure, somehow mine was off on my low boost pulls, and it dramatically effect my rwhp - once we fixed it - no problems!

Under high boost we dump in straight....Straight race gas and swap to a much colder plug...I wouldn't run the cold plugs on pump gas normally - track only.

Jay
Jay, ~650rwhp at 27 psi, nice, how bout a 30-35 psi pull where there turbo is at home? Show me the numbers. Your still teasing us. :)
 

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411 HP GSXR / 203 HP Vrod
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Discussion Starter #14
Thanks for the input fellas. I'm trying to post my dyno sheet today so you can get an idea of what in the hell is going on. Choritsu, you may be onto something when you spoke of the installation of the EVC 4. From the time the EVC was hooked back in '97 by a now non-existing shop, I wasn't getting the HP other BPU Dawgs were putting down. The EVC question has nothing to do with Paisley, but I'm going to have Paisley check that first. He's in Cali for the weekend but I'm calling him first thing Monday morning. Trust me, I haven't slept well knowing that Paisley charged me MEGABUCKS after driving my car and probably knowing that it was down on power. Like I said before, my first pull on the dyno was 401 HP which was the way the car was when it left Paisleys. There is no way in hell that he couldn't tell that I was 125+ HP short of where I was supposed to be. So you guys are telling me that the 3330's are junk? The Iridiums are the only way to go? What are Ik's?
 

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411 HP GSXR / 203 HP Vrod
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Discussion Starter #16
My scanner is really acting up... Could I fax the charts to one of you guys to post for me?
 
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