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They had to replace a LOT of OEM stuff to make this work. But they did it. I've always felt that the B58 short block is fairly stout.....it's everything else on the engine that makes me cringe.

Personally I'd rather see development in the opposite direction of "Simplify and add lightness." The B58 is probably the lightest commonly-available Inline-6. Develop some parts to make it run for 30 years with just an oil change please. But hey, I don't live in a country where every road is basically an airstrip and everyone wants 4-digit horsepower so they can get airborne. So my priorities are a LITTLE different.....shrug
 

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They had to replace a LOT of OEM stuff to make this work. But they did it. I've always felt that the B58 short block is fairly stout.....it's everything else on the engine that makes me cringe.

Personally I'd rather see development in the opposite direction of "Simplify and add lightness." The B58 is probably the lightest commonly-available Inline-6. Develop some parts to make it run for 30 years with just an oil change please. But hey, I don't live in a country where every road is basically an airstrip and everyone wants 4-digit horsepower so they can get airborne. So my priorities are a LITTLE different.....shrug
Put it on a Dyno Dynamics.

Do 10 wide open runs.
 

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Lol I saw it last week since someone asked me about it. Heavily edited but finally got it. This set up won't fit into the car. It doesn't look reliable either and it isn't connected inside the car so it doesn't mean much of anything to me. I'm sure the defenders aren't far off.
 

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I have to say Steph's videos are some of the best and best edited I've seen. Still, I do not understand the point of this exercise as it relates to regular MKV owners. For a race car, yes. For other shops to adopt some of Steph's knowledge development into their shop cars, yes. For a street car, I don't think so. The cost of all this cannot be far off from the price of another MKV, and that may be conservative given the fact this was, clearly, a cost no object project.

Ken.
 

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Definitely interesting but i'm curious how this will translate into real world applications or is this just a study on how extreme they can go and then work it down to more usable parts, tuning and tech.
 

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Definitely interesting but i'm curious how this will translate into real world applications or is this just a study on how extreme they can go and then work it down to more usable parts, tuning and tech.
If it won't be able to fit in the car I guess the point is to show people what the engine can do. It's likely going to inspire a lot of builds from other people.
 

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It sure didn't take it long to have problems....can't see the B58 holding 800 plus HP without something failing or breaking on it.
Nah man, just wait! It's only a matter of time before they start producing magic parts which will allow it to completely surpass what the B58's proven and verified max output has been for the last decade because Supra!
 

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Crazy they had to replace so much just to hit 850whp. You can do that with a stock 2JZ all day long. Not impressed.

Steve
 

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Crazy they had to replace so much just to hit 850whp. You can do that with a stock 2JZ all day long. Not impressed.

Steve
Actually developing 850 WHP requires substantial modifications on the MKIV. Given that there has been 25 years of development it's fairly straight forward but it definitely requires substantial parts and effort. Essentially the only thing either not requiring changing or upgrading is the short block (debatable if you need to upgrade internals at this power). Still you need to change or upgrade pretty much everything else in the powertrain (EMS, turbo, exhaust manifold, exhaust, intercooler, fuel system, injectors, intake, tranny/clutch, etc.) other than the rear end. Even then you're looking at running either E85 or race gas to achieve these numbers. The task with the MKV is likely to be more difficult. As such, very few owners will be looking to go this route on a new car. As Ken said regarding the Papadakis build; "Still, I do not understand the point of this exercise as it relates to regular MKV owners." If someone came out with a kit to provide a reliable 550 WHP (say 650 crank) on pump gas out of the B58 for a reasonable price, that might be interesting. Putting out 550 WHP from a B58 in a MKV, should produce a 0-60 time in the 2.6 - 3.0 sec. range and a ¼ mile easily into the 10's. The question will be, can it be done reliably, straight forward and at a reasonable price. The market for a very fast streetable MKV that runs on pump gas would be much, much larger than either a 1000 WHP ¼ mile car or dyno queen. If someone can deliver it, they might have something that would generate some decent sales.
 

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Actually developing 850 WHP requires substantial modifications on the MKIV. Given that there has been 25 years of development it's fairly straight forward but it definitely requires substantial parts and effort. Essentially the only thing either not requiring changing or upgrading is the short block (debatable if you need to upgrade internals at this power). Still you need to change or upgrade pretty much everything else in the powertrain (EMS, turbo, exhaust manifold, exhaust, intercooler, fuel system, injectors, intake, tranny/clutch, etc.) other than the rear end. Even then you're looking at running either E85 or race gas to achieve these numbers. The task with the MKV is likely to be more difficult. As such, very few owners will be looking to go this route on a new car. As Ken said regarding the Papadakis build; "Still, I do not understand the point of this exercise as it relates to regular MKV owners." If someone came out with a kit to provide a reliable 550 WHP (say 650 crank) on pump gas out of the B58 for a reasonable price, that might be interesting. Putting out 550 WHP from a B58 in a MKV, should produce a 0-60 time in the 2.6 - 3.0 sec. range and a ¼ mile easily into the 10's. The question will be, can it be done reliably, straight forward and at a reasonable price. The market for a very fast streetable MKV that runs on pump gas would be much, much larger than either a 1000 WHP ¼ mile car or dyno queen. If someone can deliver it, they might have something that would generate some decent sales.
Too bad any factory produced engine has to change almost everything to make a solid 850whp on a dyno dynamics, the 2JZ just does it better and more reliably over and over again. So you're argument is pointless.

Too bad it has already been verified that 550whp on the B58 is easily attainable. Nobody has questioned that. So that argument is also null and void.
 

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Actually developing 850 WHP requires substantial modifications on the MKIV. Given that there has been 25 years of development it's fairly straight forward but it definitely requires substantial parts and effort. Essentially the only thing either not requiring changing or upgrading is the short block (debatable if you need to upgrade internals at this power). Still you need to change or upgrade pretty much everything else in the powertrain (EMS, turbo, exhaust manifold, exhaust, intercooler, fuel system, injectors, intake, tranny/clutch, etc.) other than the rear end.
It's quite possible to make 800whp+ on a completely stock GTE longblock including internals, stock EMS with piggyback, stock intake, and stock transmission (minus the clutch of course). This has been done going back to early to mid 2000's. The rest has to be upgraded of course.
 

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It's quite possible to make 800whp+ on a completely stock GTE longblock including internals, stock EMS with piggyback, stock intake, and stock transmission (minus the clutch of course). This has been done going back to early to mid 2000's. The rest has to be upgraded of course.
And the MKIV setup is fully integrated with the car, unlike the above B58 configuration. I'll give him credit on the process of making the parts.
We also cannot forget Dodge, Chevy and Ford are all putting out 800-1000hp capable set ups with warranties from the factory.
 

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It's quite possible to make 800whp+ on a completely stock GTE longblock including internals, stock EMS with piggyback, stock intake, and stock transmission (minus the clutch of course). This has been done going back to early to mid 2000's. The rest has to be upgraded of course.
Truth.

MANY years ago, @Silver Bullet on here ran very low [email protected] mph with an HKS VPC and GCC IIRC. I'm pretty sure Steve (1A1) was referring to the stock long block, including the stock intake manifold when he posted above. Of course, you need bolt-ons to make 850 wheel (cams, turbo, exhaust, clutch) but those items were not the point of his post, IMO.

Member Basupra made 1,017 whp on a stock long block way back in the day. Not saying this was sustainable, but I believe someone else, whose name I do not recall, made even more power with a stock long block.


Ken.
 

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Ken, I don't disagree. To me, 1A1's post just made it seem that achieving 850 WHP on a MKIV was a trivial exercise. As easy as adding a couple of simple bolt ons and a tune to the stock long block (I wish). My contention is that there is a very limited market of people looking to get 850 WHP out of a B58 in a MKV and this makes the whole exercise somewhat moot. No doubt there will be a few people who will want either the MKV dyno or ¼ mile bragging rights but there are lots easier and way cheaper ways to get 850 WHP (or 1000 WHP) than starting with a B58 and a $60K MKV. I stand by my statement that developing the B58 to deliver a reliable ~550 WHP on pump makes more sense to me from a market and thus developer standpoint.
Shady, as far as I know the highest HP production vehicles Dodge, Chevy or Ford are the GT500 at 760 HP and the Dodge Challenger SRT Demon at 808 hp (pump). I think that Chevy (Corvette or ZL1) tops out under 700 hp crank. I do agree that if high HP is your priority, getting it stock with a warranty makes a lot of sense.
 

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Ken, I don't disagree. To me, 1A1's post just made it seem that achieving 850 WHP on a MKIV was a trivial exercise. As easy as adding a couple of simple bolt ons and a tune to the stock long block (I wish). My contention is that there is a very limited market of people looking to get 850 WHP out of a B58 in a MKV and this makes the whole exercise somewhat moot. No doubt there will be a few people who will want either the MKV dyno or ¼ mile bragging rights but there are lots easier and way cheaper ways to get 850 WHP (or 1000 WHP) than starting with a B58 and a $60K MKV. I stand by my statement that developing the B58 to deliver a reliable ~550 WHP on pump makes more sense to me from a market and thus developer standpoint.
Shady, as far as I know the highest HP production vehicles Dodge, Chevy or Ford are the GT500 at 760 HP and the Dodge Challenger SRT Demon at 808 hp (pump). I think that Chevy (Corvette or ZL1) tops out under 700 hp crank. I do agree that if high HP is your priority, getting it stock with a warranty makes a lot of sense.
800-1000hp CAPABLE setups.

While it was a limited offering, it was still available from the dealer:

Stock Demon with tune and race fuel over 960hp, they make 840hp on race fuel:

Another with ported blower, fuel system, tune and fuel, over 1000rwhp:

1000hp Hellphant engines that were offered from Dodge:

New C8 Corvette Twin Turbo all yet to be confirmed, won't take much to hit over 1,000hp:

There's plenty more showing the capabilities of those platforms with tuning, fuel, and bolt ons.

Then there's the Hennessey and Shelby packages which aren't from factory but still carry a warranty.
 

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Shady, 50 total is the max production (25 copies of each HP version) of the Stage I and Stage II upgrades for the Camaro. It's also $46K- $67K upgrade respectively. To me these cars are just tuner cars offered by the dealer. Race gas don't count (I noted that the Dodge was 808 HP on pump). Crate engines are the same. Hennessy is just a tuner, any tuner can offer a warranty if they want. Yet to be released models do no count. I do agree that either these cars ZL1, GT500 and the SRT Demon are all smoking deals on a HP/dollar basis. It all depends on if you want to drive a Camaro, Mustang or a Challenger. Neither is my cup of tea.
 

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Just making my point clear that they all offer 800-1000hp capable engines from the factory, regardless if its 1 or 1,000,000. No major modifications to the block or heads are needed. So this B58 that touched 1000hp which needed a complete overhaul with custom parts in 2019 is decent. No more, no less.
If race fuel doesn't count then that b58 hitting 1000hp doesn't count lol.
 

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"If race fuel doesn't count then that b58 hitting 1000hp doesn't count lol."
Yup! If you can't run it on pump (max 94 R+M/2), then to me it's not a street capable car. I could say my car is xxx hp, tuned on 116 octane race gas but other than at the dyno or track is that what I'm running on a daily basis???? If I only run it on a dyno or ¼ mile, do I actually have a street car? Give me a car that handles, brakes and puts out a reliable 500-700 HP at the crank and I'm happy. These tuner dyno and ¼ mile queens that can't be daily driven don't interest me. In this case it's just an engine strapped to a dyno!!! I don't get the point.
 
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