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iSPOOL
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"If race fuel doesn't count then that b58 hitting 1000hp doesn't count lol."
Yup! If you can't run it on pump (max 94 R+M/2), then to me it's not a street capable car. I could say my car is xxx hp, tuned on 116 octane race gas but other than at the dyno or track is that what I'm running on a daily basis???? If I only run it on a dyno or ¼ mile, do I actually have a street car? Give me a car that handles, brakes and puts out a reliable 500-700 HP at the crank and I'm happy. These tuner dyno and ¼ mile queens that can't be daily driven don't interest me. In this case it's just an engine strapped to a dyno!!! I don't get the point.
I cannot refute what you consider a "street capable car." But higher octane fuel is easily attainable and can be stored in your garage if needed lol. The fact remains Ford, Chevy, and Dodge all make 800-1000hp capable engines from factory.
 

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Race gas does not disqualify a car as street capable. All that is necessary is to have deep pockets and put the fuel in your gas tank.

Simple.
Normally I don't argue with folks on the internet as a matter of principle, but my definition (everybody has one) of a street car is one that can run on whatever fuel they can find. I road trip my car, hence it's tuned to run on 91 octane. Now, if you want to run on whatever fuel that is ordered by the barrel, and tow a trailer behind your car with a lot of fuel (likely running afoul of a DOT reg or two in the process), then be my guest, that'd be what I call a street car.

If it can't run on readily available fuel, then to me it's a car with severely limited range. Where I live... that makes for a boring car, because where I live, you gotta go a ways before the roads get interesting. You wouldn't even be able to make one of my quick trips in an E85 car... because you're a LONG way away from fuel of any sort.

That said, you're right. If you are willing to spend the $12/gallon on quality fuel, then yes, you can indeed drive ANY engine on the street.
 

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Race gas makes car not "street capable". Really? Blackie has three tunes, 91 (600 whp), VP 109 Motorsport (775 whp) and C16/Q16 (1115 whp). But, the point of this post is I can now purchase E85 at the pump for a $1.50 per gallon LESS than I pay for 91-octane premium. With my E-85 fuel system installed, Eau Rouge, my red '95, now makes 730 whp at the same boost setting the car made 619 wheel with 91-octane and I can run it virtually full time as I become more familiar with E85 locations. Seems more than a bit arbitrary to say cars that make maximum power on race gas are not "street capable".


Ken.
 

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They are obviously "street capable". Maybe I should qualify what I meant and the context, rather than everyone getting all caught up in the straight definition. I guess "street practical" is more along the lines of what I meant. I have no doubt that with some effort, you could make a car that runs on solid rocket fuel "street capable". It's just not very practical, if you can't easily pull your car into a gas station and fill it up with the fuel it needs. Sure you can have a drum of race gas at home (or on a trailer) but between the dismal fuel milage of a 800+ hp car and the high price of race gas (~$12/gal) it's not very practical as a daily driver option. So at the end of the day, I guess Shady is right; "The fact remains Ford, Chevy, and Dodge all make 800-1000hp capable engines from factory." but I still say that these are essentially factory tuners and not really daily driver "street practical". I have no doubt someone will point out an example of a car from the factory that runs on E-85 or 94 that puts out 8XX HP. I will therefore acknowledge in advance that I am wrong and salute their superior knowledge and intellect. My initial point was that these efforts and exercises to get 1000 WHP out of the B58 whether they are doing it on a bench dyno, chassis dyno or using a special mule car are all BS. If the average Joe can't drive it on a couple of hundred mile trip without either having a tank of 116 octane on a trailer behind him or every trip is planned to use no more than one tank of gas max, or otherwise intersect places that sell 116, it isn't very "street practical".
Ken your car with; "E-85 fuel system installed, ... makes 730 whp at the same boost setting the car made 619 wheel with 91-octane." fits nicely with "street practical". Well done by the way. Not sure where you are but when I lived in Houston, E-85 was practically everywhere. Never seen it here in Calgary but we do have 94 (yay). Must be tough in California with only 91.
 

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Mind if I do a J?
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I’ve built plenty of 1000+whp street-driven Supras with full AC, power steering, interior, stereo, etc, with 10k+ miles on the build and multiple 300-500 mile trips, all running on E85 for 2 bucks a gallon. Some of which are even members here on this forum.
 

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Ken your car with; "E-85 fuel system installed, ... makes 730 whp at the same boost setting the car made 619 wheel with 91-octane." fits nicely with "street practical". Well done by the way. Not sure where you are but when I lived in Houston, E-85 was practically everywhere. Never seen it here in Calgary but we do have 94 (yay). Must be tough in California with only 91.
Thanks for the compliment.

I live in one of the few areas of southern Cali that did not have E-85 for years. All that has changed over the last few years and my go-to station is but 3.5 miles from my house. E85, with a flex fuel sensor and appropriate tuning, is the ultimate "street capable" super high performance street car. Even advances in EMS technology enable non-E85 cars to have almost econobox-like practicality.

My Blackie has an old school build with an old school EMS (HKS F-CON V Pro), but with the HKS Mixture Controller and I can switch on the fly between the three maps I've had tuned on the V Pro (allows a total of four). Patrick94TT's post above gets to the essence of it. He's a big fan of the ProEFI and for good reason. I won't spend the time here talking about its innate goodness but, with its capabilities and various failsafes, horsepower junkies like us can have our cake and eat it too.


Ken.
 

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Boost Junkie
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Give me a break. Do you really think you can get 1000HP out of a 3 liter motor WITHOUT using some sort of race fuel or ethanol based fuel? It's called physics. The Dodge/Chevy/Ford motors you speak of are usually 2X the displacement of the 2JZ or B58, which are 3 liter motors. For a 3 liter motor to make the same power as a motor 2x its size (nearly 3X if you include the Viper) you have much higher cylinder pressures and that requires more octane. Most people running around in 1000HP Supras run on ethanol based fuels to make that power today. In the midwest, you can find it around every corner..not so much in other areas. That doesn't mean you can't drive the car. That does mean if you can't find a fuel higher in E content, then you'll have to run on 93 or even 91 octane piss fuel and run on a map that is going to make less power. That's what so great about flex fuel.

Steve
 

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Give me a break. Do you really think you can get 1000HP out of a 3 liter motor WITHOUT using some sort of race fuel or ethanol based fuel? It's called physics. The Dodge/Chevy/Ford motors you speak of are usually 2X the displacement of the 2JZ or B58... That's what so great about flex fuel.

Steve
Steve, was wondering when someone was going to make a point about the displacement factor, surprised it took this long. Big displacement engines make for a pretty friendly high power car too. For what it's worth, the LT5 in the C7 ZR1 makes 755hp, the Dodge Demon 808hp, the newest GT500 is I think 760hp, all on 91 octane if I'm not mistaken. We truly live in a golden age for factory performance...

Running more highly strung engines is practical, depending on where you live or drive. When I was picking out a fuel cell, I purposely went with a 22 gallon, knowing that the extra capacity would come in handy if I ever did decide to run ethanol, or just in general due to how thirsty she is when on track. Plus the extra weight over the rear is nice... Anyway, I prefer scenic routes on our road trips, rather than interstates. I can't say I've ever seen E85 at any of the gas stations we've ever stopped at, outside of a couple. It wouldn't be possible to run our routes on E85, simply put, without carrying it with you somehow.

I'm cognizant of the fact that I'm not a very typical Supra owner though...

Anyway, on the subject of the Papadakis setup, who cares if it fits in the factory car? That's not really Steph's goal or expertise... the only thing limitation with tube frame cars is your imagination! :)
 

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iSPOOL
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My mentioning of Dodge Chevy and ford are merely in terms of HP levels that are available to the consumer without the need to severely modify your car to hit similar numbers. I fully understand the displacement factor. My fault I should have made that point a little more clear.
 

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Truth.

MANY years ago, @Silver Bullet on here ran very low [email protected] mph with an HKS VPC and GCC IIRC. I'm pretty sure Steve (1A1) was referring to the stock long block, including the stock intake manifold when he posted above. Of course, you need bolt-ons to make 850 wheel (cams, turbo, exhaust, clutch) but those items were not the point of his post, IMO.

Member Basupra made 1,017 whp on a stock long block way back in the day. Not saying this was sustainable, but I believe someone else, whose name I do not recall, made even more power with a stock long block.


Ken.
Very much the truth! Thanks Ken for remembering :) I ran this setup for probably 8 years and raced every NOPI event...won TX2K etc.
Stock longblock, HKS VPC and AFC2 to be exact. Single turbo bolt on PHR kit..and the obvious exhaust, intake, Intercooler, BOV, 272 cams and bolt on easy stuff. All on a HPF Single disk clutch. Obviously back then there was no E85 So it was always on pump gas and C16. I dove the car everywhere with never an issue. Made 870-900RWHP. Never broke anything during that time period. Just changed the clutch eventually a few times.
Most reliable setup I have ever had to date as far as power, turn key jump in and go anywhere...Yet still can drive to the track and run in the low-mid 9s in the low 150s.
 
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