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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Damn, and how long has Lexus been on top....


http://money.cnn.com/2006/06/07/Autos/jdpower_iqs/index.htm

Porsche tops quality survey
Toyota, Lexus top most vehicle segments in revised J.D. Power Initial Quality Study.
June 7, 2006: 5:05 PM EDT


NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) - Porsche rises to the top in a new J.D. Power and Associates Initial Quality Survey. The survey was revised this year to take into account inherent design issues as well as malfunctions and manufacturing defects.

According to J.D. Power's survey of new vehicle owners, Porsche had 91 problems per 100 vehicles. Lexus, Toyota's luxury brand, came in a close second with 93 problems per 100 vehicles. Korea-based Hyundai ranked third with 102. The industry average was 124.

Toyota and Lexus ranked highest in most vehicle segments in the survey.

This year's scores are not comparable to those of previous years because this year, for the first time, J.D. Power considered design flaws that bother consumers as well as actual defects. Had the ranking been based on defects alone, Lexus would have ranked first and Porsche second.

"In the eyes of consumers, design flaws can have as much of an impact on their perceptions of quality as can a defect," said Joe Ivers, executive director of quality and customer satisfaction research for J.D. Power and Associates. "Yet, many manufacturers have tended to address quality solely on the plant floor without considering design factors."

Vehicle brands can vary widely in the two quality measures.

"For example, BMW vehicles have among the fewest defects and malfunctions, along with Toyota," said Ivers. "But BMW approaches controls and displays in a way that creates some problems for customers, leading to more design-related problems overall than Toyota incurs."

BMW ranked well below average in the survey with 142 problems per 100 vehicles.

A BMW spokesman attributed the large number of design-related issues to the amount of advanced technology in the company's vehicles.

"We are known, and we are expected to be, a leader in cutting edge technology," said David Buchko, a BMW spokesman.

New owners may have trouble using some of the vehicles' technology simply because it is unfimiliar to them, he said.

Some have suggest that the new J.D. Power rating system creates an "innovation penalty" said J.D. Power's Ivers. But companies can integrate technology in a way that doesn't annoy customers, he said.

"You won't have failures related to a parking assist system if you don't have a parking assist system," he said. "Then lexus comes out with one and customers don't have any propblem with it"

Land Rover, the British luxury SUV brand owned by Ford Motor Co., ranked last in the survey with 204 problems per 100 vehicles. But Jaguar, the British luxury car brand also owned by Ford, ranked fourth overall, just behind Toyota, with 109 problems per 100 vehicles.

J.D. Power's Initial Qualty Study was based on responses from 63,907 owners and lessees of new 2006 model-year cars and trucks. They were surveyed after 90 days of ownership.
 

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Pontiac Grand Prix gets the large car award. That's in agreement with Consumer Report's reliability score for the NA Grand Prix. The car isn't great, but add in 40%+ depreciation after 12-18 months and you have a great beater.

It's cool Porsche scores very high but Toyota is a huge company with a huge supply chain and I think it becomes non-linearly difficult to keep a company running smoothly as it grows.

I wonder how weighting between design and problem count is handled with this scoring. I guess as problem count on the average goes down, there has to be other ways to measure consumer frustration (esp. with more and more complicated gadget equipped cars).
 

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a) "91 problems per 100 vehicles." I wonder how many miles are put on those new Porsche vehicles versus the Toyota miles. :lol:

b) Considering how expensive Porsches are, they BETTER have some damned quality. Poor bastards are already paying too much for ugliness...
 

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Typical Corvette Driver
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FYRARMS said:
b) Considering how expensive Porsches are, they BETTER have some damned quality. Poor bastards are already paying too much for ugliness...

If you think this is ugly...you have problems my friend.



 

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Don't always take JD Power data for Gospel.
They accept money from all car companies to survey car owners.
That has always seemed like a big conflict of interest to me.
 

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Big Block Stingray said:
Lexus has been the leader for years, so what does that say then....
You're missing the point: Initial quality. It fades as the reliability goes down.

Lexus may second to "Initial" quality, but overal quality exceeds most others. ;)
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
PhoeniXDownVII said:
You're missing the point: Initial quality. It fades as the reliability goes down.

Lexus may second to "Initial" quality, but overal quality exceeds most others. ;)

I don't doubt that for a second. Lexus Quality > Everyone else

My problem is that people boast about Lexus being the leader of JD Power's Initial Quality (Rightfully so) but the minute they come in second say it doesn't mean shit...
 

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So I wonder how many more years the germans had with the same rough interior dimensions compared to the many different interiors lexus has gone thru?
Big Block Stingray said:
Damn, and how long has Lexus been on top....


http://money.cnn.com/2006/06/07/Autos/jdpower_iqs/index.htm

This year's scores are not comparable to those of previous years because this year, for the first time, J.D. Power considered design flaws that bother consumers as well as actual defects. Had the ranking been based on defects alone, Lexus would have ranked first and Porsche second.
 

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Blitz Supra
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As a current owner of two Porsches and I've owned many other Porsches over the years (996 911, 997 911S, 986 Boxster, Cayenne Turbo) I will say it is one of my most reliable cars I've ever owned. Thats the reason I keep buying them.

Just because cars are expensive doesn't make them reliable, a good example is every car that comes out of Britain sucks. Ferrari's are not reliable as they are super high maintenence, except for the recent 360 which I heard isn't as high maintenence. Lambos have $15,000 maintenence charges every 30k miles, adjustments of the valves.
 

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wtfx100 said:
WORD.

It's impressive to see someone finally topped Toyota in this study, but as the report specified, if not for the new areas of interest in the study, Lexus would have taken the cake.

What impresses me the most is that Hyundai is doing so well. Since around 2001ish, Korean car companies all decided they were sick of their reputation, and sought to offer serious competition in reliability and overall build quality, and amazingly, kept their price ranges. They are making some decent-looking cars that can be bought for chump change, and in a few years, it'll be great to see their reputation repaired.

Once I'm rich I'm getting a Camry/IS, though. THose things are just gorgeous. Congrats, Porsche, but Toyota FTW.
 

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Blitz Supra
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It's nothing new that Porsche is on that list for those unfamiliar. They've been ranked as having the most reliable sports car for several years (the 911).
 

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Never narc'd on nobody
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Nice to see Toyota Lexus and Porsche still on top.

Man Hyundai is creeping up on everyone in all aspects.....it'll be really interesting to see them develop in the next five years.
 

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Troux said:
What impresses me the most is that Hyundai is doing so well. Since around 2001ish, Korean car companies all decided they were sick of their reputation, and sought to offer serious competition in reliability and overall build quality, and amazingly, kept their price ranges. They are making some decent-looking cars that can be bought for chump change, and in a few years, it'll be great to see their reputation repaired.
It's been going on a lot longer than since 2001. Hyundai has steadily been making progress for over a decade now. Now they just need to design some cars w/ character and originality.

My problem w/ J.D. Power surveys are that they seem to only survey a small percentage of car owners. ~64k surveyed seems small compared to the number of 2006 model year cars and trucks probably sold. Also the fact that idiots barely intelligent enough to operate two pedals and a steering wheel or moronically brand loyal were most likely part of the few surveyed doesn't give me much confidence in these results.
 

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FYRARMS said:
a) "91 problems per 100 vehicles." I wonder how many miles are put on those new Porsche vehicles versus the Toyota miles. :lol:

b) Considering how expensive Porsches are, they BETTER have some damned quality. Poor bastards are already paying too much for ugliness...


Gun powder must be getting to your head.. :ugh2:
 

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Wobbiest: Three Laws Safe
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Man, I forget where I read the article - it actually may have been on SF somewhere - its was an interview with a lemon law lawyer, and he said Porsche is absolutely the worst at recognizing problems with their cars and they think they are all perfect.

Its funny too because this is after 90 days of ownership they get their surveys. 90 days most guys have put 500 miles on their Porsche. I think the test should be in mileage, not days.
 

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SRTullio said:
If you think this is ugly...you have problems my friend.
I have no problems, and I'm not your friend...

I know what I'm talking about:




Do you really think that they were even comparing initial quality of a new 997 Turbo versus a new Camry? How many miles are put on each respective car "initially"? I would like to know.
 

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I will say the Cayenne is ugly as balls - its a Santa Fe with a big price tag. The new Turbo S will be 520hp but still ugly as sin.
But I like the new 997 style MUCHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH better then 996. the 993 was my fav though.

The Cayman I think has some great lines, a very nice roofline too. there is a defainte gray area though when it comes to some Porsche models. The biggest problem is they are not that exclusive, so you see 80,000 of them a day and it numbs you a bit to them.
 
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