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Escaped from infinite lag
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Well Ive read most of what everyone has to say and theres so much to question.

#1 How do you know for sure when the TCCS is in open loop

#2 Where idealy should your high and low TP settings be keeping in mind you want the SAFC to use its compensation settings from low to high therefore low-69 and high- 70 makes no sense.

#3 When tuning for closed loop what is the range of A/F you want to shoot for to get max performance and fuel economy without burning out your valve train.

#4 Ive seen an AEM wideband fluctuate at idle from 14.0 to 15.7 is this normal and can it be stabalized to 14.7 all the time or will it alway fluctuate.

#5 When cruising the TCCS tries to maintain a 14.7 AF. If you were to lean it out a little on closes loop "low TP settings" would you be able to SAFLY get some better gas milage (I heard that drjonez did somthing similar to this and got much better gas milage)

#6 when decelerating the reading on the AF gauge is over 17 aka off the scale but as soon as decelerating stops it goes back up to ~14.7 is this normal?

#7 Is gears 3 or 4 the best to do pulls in on the street for best tuning AF numbers?

#8 People say 11.75 is the most you want to lean out at WOT is this true for when you are tuning on the street?

#9 Should you have 2 different maps (as alowed in the SAFC2) so that you can useone for warm weather and one for cooler weather aka nights and spring and fall days

#10 Is there anyone in Ontario that lives near Guelph that can help me out with tuning my car or giving me pointers.

Thanks guys Im just trying to better understand how to make these cars go and go reliably.

Dave
 

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when this baby hits 88mph
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wow thats a lot to go over haha.

1. 75% throttle plus is open loop
2. thats really up to you. depends how you drive and how you want it to respond. typical results are 30/75.
3. thats gonna vary too. remem anything under 75% throttle the ecu is gonna fight against.
4. it will always fluctuate. ecu will always swing above and below 14.7
5. see #3
6. normal
7. really doesnt matter that much. 4th gear on the dyno since its 1:1 ratio but on the street thats go to jail speeds, altho a little easier to tune since things dont happen as fast.
8. 11.7-11.8 is ideal for the dyno, 12.0-12.2 for the street.
9. no the ecu should compensate for that. altho if you are talking 0C and 40C temps, you might want to retune. cant really do dual maps tho.
10. sorry ky is that close to you ;)

hope this helps. anything more specific you want explained further let me know.

dave

edit: this is not the gospel by any means. all people do it differently. this is what works for me for my car. some adjustments might be required. take this info for what its worth.
 

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Sounds fun.. I am getting my s-afc II in the next day or two and plan on tuning with my wideband that I am buying... I may send some questions your way dbsupra.
 

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Escaped from infinite lag
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thanks dbsupra its nice to get some quality input from time to time. I plan on tuning with an AEM wb and a SAFC2.

I will try what youve said for my low and high settings being 30 and 70 or 75 respectively.

I will tune for 11.8 or 12.0 at WOT and even though 4th gear is go to jail speeds id rather get this right then wimp out. besides there are a few nice roads in my area where no people live on (just trying to let everyone know I refuse to race around homes and hurt children its been happening around my place).

I am going to try to tune the closed loop settings after the open loop is perfect until then ill zero everything out so as to not upset the TCCS.

My idle is perfect so i dont want to mess with that it may idle a little too high ~1100 rpm so ill try to trim some fuel out of that to get some better efficiency at idle.

*****heres another question for those of you who have tuned your cars with the SAFC at what RPM do you start your tuning for open loop? If open loop happends at 70-75% TP then what rpm do you start the addition or removal of fuel with the SAFC? I was thinking 2000 or 2500 since I have a 4.3 rear end I build boost pretty quick down low.

Thanks again guys
 

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stallion said:
Thanks dbsupra its nice to get some quality input from time to time. I plan on tuning with an AEM wb and a SAFC2.

I will try what youve said for my low and high settings being 30 and 70 or 75 respectively.

I will tune for 11.8 or 12.0 at WOT and even though 4th gear is go to jail speeds id rather get this right then wimp out. besides there are a few nice roads in my area where no people live on (just trying to let everyone know I refuse to race around homes and hurt children its been happening around my place).

I am going to try to tune the closed loop settings after the open loop is perfect until then ill zero everything out so as to not upset the TCCS.

My idle is perfect so i dont want to mess with that it may idle a little too high ~1100 rpm so ill try to trim some fuel out of that to get some better efficiency at idle.

*****heres another question for those of you who have tuned your cars with the SAFC at what RPM do you start your tuning for open loop? If open loop happends at 70-75% TP then what rpm do you start the addition or removal of fuel with the SAFC? I was thinking 2000 or 2500 since I have a 4.3 rear end I build boost pretty quick down low.

Thanks again guys

If you are on a dyno, the answer to this question is very easy. You will see on a datalogged WB on the dyno where your A/F's are too rich or lean. You make a run and see what needs to be adjusted. Make the adjustments and do it again. And around and around we go :) I've never tuned my car or a friends car on the street so I'm not sure if that would work good or not. BUt if your WB is datalogged, do it that way. Just adjust as you see where it needs it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
ya the AEM one has an out put for an RS-232 port on a laptop so i think ill try that or just film it with my digicam and use the movie to review and change the points
 

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stallion said:
ya the AEM one has an out put for an RS-232 port on a laptop so i think ill try that or just film it with my digicam and use the movie to review and change the points
I'd strongly STRONGLY recommending finding someone with a laptop or getting one yourself. The video method will be kind of hit or miss with tuning. It's easier to see it all mapped out rather than just do what the movie might show.
 

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can anyone give me a no so tecnical advice about the settings for the S-AFC II, I'have a shop installing it today to my Auto car and I don't have an idea how to tune it, Any Safe tunning Starting settings will be apreciated
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
well from what i understand start off with everything zero's out. Do the initial setup as described in the online manual. set your low tp to whatever you want and your high to ~70 to 75 % then using a wb sensor start leaning or richening your settings

please anyone else chime in here
 

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boost freak
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5. warm idle is closed loop, so you will see the A/F flop all over albeit not as fast as cruise.
6. fuel delivery is cut off on decel below 2.5k RPM.
 

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Just some guy
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dbsupra said:
wow thats a lot to go over haha.

1. 75% throttle plus is open loop
I'll have to slighly disagree here. It is one part of open loop, but airflow also plays a part. You can be WOT at low rpm, partial boost and still be closed loop. I don't know what the corresponding afm output voltage is, though. Anyone??
 

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The Vf voltage will drop to zero when you hit open loop. I don't know an easy way to tell the difference between the ECU pulling a lot of fuel from the base maps and open loop, both have 0v on the Vf output.
 

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GrimJack said:
The Vf voltage will drop to zero when you hit open loop. I don't know an easy way to tell the difference between the ECU pulling a lot of fuel from the base maps and open loop, both have 0v on the Vf output.
Doh! I meant to say frequency (KS output). There has to be a dual switch so to speak. So much throttle AND a minimum frequency. Looking at my wideband, I see the ecu keeping it stoich at lower airflows even at WOT all the time. Check out my dyno here:


Now I hit WOT at about 2k. You'll notice that the afr's stay stoich all the way to about 2600rpm. Boost kicked in about 2200-2300, and didnt reach full boost till about 2700-2800. So at WOT, under boost, the ecu was still acting closed loop for a while, which I can only attribute to some kind of preset airflow value to kick it into open loop.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
hmm so if i tune for an 11.8 or so starting at 2500rpm all the way to redline i should be okay then. I plan on running my stock CT up to 16psi
 

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all you gotta do to tune with safc is have IT and some sort of WB, and maybe a EGT gauge. Start at 2k in 4th gear and give it full throttle all the way to redline. In the meantime you should look constantly at the afr's and EGT numbers so they dont exceed the safety margin that everyone mentioned. If they do, pull over.....whip out the labtop, load the data that you just logged and look at the af curve to see what its doing. If some spots are too high or too low simply make those corrections via SAFC and repeat the process over and over again til you get that afr line you desire. Thats a pretty basic summary of tuning.

charlie
 

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if your talking about tps settings i have no clue.....this is a mk3 section. Maybe you should ask in the mk4 section but my guess is that its possibly pretty close.

Afr's should be 11.5 conservative and 12.5 max.

charlie
 
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