READ MEEEEE DFI or HALTEC, Perhaps Something Else?!?!?

955 Views 18 Replies 6 Participants Last post by anoldsman, Dec 4, 2001

G

Discussion Starter · Sep 26, 2001

Alright...I'm going to be the proud owner of a Supra soon, and I've been seeing all these HUGE T88 T78 single turbo guys, running tons of boost, even nos, and never see any Fuel management such as DFI...WHY? Wouldn't all of you guys run MUCH better with such specific tuning?? Is a WALBRO pump, and a bunch of elecetronics really enough? Just want to know so I dont go wasting money...thanks guys!

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FYRARMS

· #2 · Sep 26, 2001

Well, for years I have used Accel/DFI systems on my cars. I worked for an Accel EMIC here in Illinois, and have seen many installations. I was going to use the new DFI Gen 7.0 system, but have decided to go with the latest Speed-Pro offering. I think most people are just unfamiliar with stand-alone systems as well as the tuning. I will be running a built engine with SP66 turbo, NOS, and a TH400 trans. Why spend thousands and thousands of dollars on all the add-on electronics when you can just use a stand-alone system? Makes perfect sense. Lets see:

HKS VPC
HKS GCC
G-Force ECU
Apex S-AFC
Apex S-ITC

or...

Speed-Pro management? Simple math for me!

Call Larry at Sound Performance and he can hook you up!

cr133r

· #3 · Sep 26, 2001

There are a few subsystems in the car that rely on the stock ECU. This makes it a bit more difficult to swap in a standalone system.

If you plan to run the stock auto tranny, you may be SOL because the stock ECU controls the solenoids in the tranny.

Seriously though, it shouldn't be too difficult to run an aftermarket ECU in the car with minor interfacing issues to run the A/C, ABS etc.

FYRARMS

· #4 · Sep 26, 2001

Yep. Like I said, talk to Larry. Plenty of Speed-Pro cars running around. Use the unit as a piggyback to control fuel and spark, timing retard, and NOS control. Let the factory ECU work the other stuff...

Sound Performance

· #5 · Sep 26, 2001

FYRARMS said:
Yep. Like I said, talk to Larry. Plenty of Speed-Pro cars running around. Use the unit as a piggyback to control fuel and spark, timing retard, and NOS control. Let the factory ECU work the other stuff...

Exactly!! The speed pro runs the engine but you can trick the factory ECU into thinking it is still running the engine....... Therefore your A/C, cruise, gauges, auto tranny etc. all still function properly.

Lar
SP

forcefeed

· #6 · Sep 26, 2001

So you guys found a way to run a Speedpro on the TT's now? I remember you guys (SP) saying that it could run on the N/A-T's but you were still waiting for a part to be made so that it could be used on the TT's. I think it was something about there not being a distributor on the TT's, am i close??? I'm assuming they have the part available now, so when do we see the first 2jzgte running a Speedpro?

-Amir

FYRARMS

· #7 · Sep 27, 2001

Yep, the multi-coil adapter is a go! Larry even has a niiiiice crank trigger ready for me. Right, Lar?

G

Discussion Starter · #8 · Sep 27, 2001

Another standalone system works with the 2JZ-GTE. Cool.

How much would one of these speed pro systems run? Parts, installation labor, initial program (to get it to start and run without blowing up the engine), performance tuning?

Does it have any data logging capabilities? How about good mapping/control software?

Grant

· #9 · Sep 27, 2001

I don't suppose there is any way to let the stock ECU control closed loop stuff and a standalone run the WOT stuff is there?

G

Discussion Starter · #10 · Sep 27, 2001 (Edited)

First of all, we got to stop calling them Speed-Pro! They got bought, and they are called FAST now (Fuel Air Spark Technology).

Grant, don't worry about idle and cruise. A FAST is simply amazing when purchased with the Wideband 02 option. You tell it what A/F ratio you want under different conditions (14.7 at idle and cruise, ramping down to 11.8 at full boost is perfect). It does the rest. You do the same for ignition timing.

wizard_of_oz: OH YEAH it can log. Graphically log any number of engine sensors over time. Imagine a graph with lines showing your boost/vacumn, A/F ratio, RPM, throttle angle, ignition timing all at the same time!

G

Discussion Starter · #11 · Sep 27, 2001

Standalone is not for everyone.

VPC, GCC, ITC, G-Force total $2500 or so.
This give you low cost, user friendly COMMON setup with plenty of information/settings out there so that one can tune DIY.

Standalone (Speed-Pro aka FAST, DTA, HALTEC, MOTEC, etc) costs over $5000, requires shitload of expensive optional equipment (wide-band sensor option, laptop, etc) AND an experienced tuner (hourly, for as long as it takes cuz there is no going back).

People on budget better stick with mickey mouse plug-and-play electronics.

G

Discussion Starter · #12 · Sep 27, 2001

$5000? No way! The stand alone FAST system on my Grand National (with wideband 02) was $1800! It's probably gonna be a little more for a MKIV because of the crank sensor and ignition adapter, but certainly not $5000!

Sound Performance

· #13 · Sep 27, 2001

Yes, the Speed Pro (FAST) can data log. It can be set to automatically data log everytime a certain boost level or throttle position is met. The beauty of it is that it has a wide band O2 sensor and monitors it even during wide open throttle. We have figured out a way how to make the stock IAC motor work too. The car will run in closed loop!! It can handle virtually any size injector, it can run a dry NOS system, ignition retard under NOS, it controls electric fans and much more.

It combines all of this:

VPC
GCC
Gforce Computer upgrade
Ignition ITC
Ignition Upgrade HKS DLI
Wide Band O2 sensor
Data Logging system

Into one system!!

As soon as our racing season is over (Oct 21) I am going to be installing one unit on my car. I will keep you posted.

Lar
SP

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Grant

· #14 · Sep 27, 2001

Are you sure its necissary unless you are going for a raised rev limit and cams? Most people can get their fuel curve right even with a Field's SFC, and the stock ECU seems to do ignition timing just fine. It will advance timing as much as possible, although only up to 23 degrees.

The extra datalogging features would be nice.

G

Discussion Starter · #15 · Sep 28, 2001

OK, now I've gone from curious to interested. This system will work with (mostly) stock sensors and controllers? How about stock ignition coils and igniter? A/C clutch control? Duty-controlled wastegate solenoid?

I want datalogging to tune my expected T66 install, and I want it badly enough that I've been working through reference designs for thermocouple compensation, frequency conversion, and memory system options. I've already gotten the A/D conversion, multiplexing, and serial I/O parts down in theory. I could do schematics for a 20Hz 32-channel voltage recorder today. I haven't started putting real components together for this project--yet. However, when I look at the number of hours it would take me to finish the engineering of this, that tops the $1k mark in time equivalent. And that's just for my time in designing it and building a rough prototype, let alone the compact second draft, installing it, or writing the software to make it sing.

If this were integrated with a decent standalone management system with GOOD tools, that would be icing.

BTW, my MT2500 reports that my '98 ECU is setting timing advance at +15deg the second I get into boost. More aggressive timing advance would definitely help the OBDII people.

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Grant

· #16 · Sep 28, 2001

Oolan, your ECU is only giving you 15 degrees of timing because you are (or were) knocking. Eliminate the knock, and it will go up, trust me. But your right it does limit us to 23 degrees advance (+10 base advance). If you put some good race gas in, it should read 23 all the way from first boost to redline.

But I here stand-alones can help spool by retarding the timing before the boost comes on. That would be nice.

onenrg1

· #17 · Dec 3, 2001

Does Speed-Pro have a website where I can access more info. I am going to change my VPC and AFC for a stand alone because I want more tunability and am looking into whats out there for a reasonable price. Motec would be great but just too much. Any insight would help. Thanks
Omar

G

Discussion Starter · #18 · Dec 3, 2001

Look at the topics in this forum about AEM computers.

G

Discussion Starter · #19 · Dec 4, 2001

Here is the FAST website. It works very well, but then again I am biased. http://www.fuelairspark.com/

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