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guys, I'm planning on purchasing a mkiv supra within the next year. I plan on either buying one with a single turbo or buy one with stock turbos and eventually install a single turbo kit. Is there any reason I shouldn't buy one with a single turbo kit already installed w/ necessary fuel upgrades? What are some typical problems with going single over keeping the stock twins and doing bpu,bpu+,bpu++, etc mods?
 

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lazybum said:
guys, I'm planning on purchasing a mkiv supra within the next year. I plan on either buying one with a single turbo or buy one with stock turbos and eventually install a single turbo kit. Is there any reason I shouldn't buy one with a single turbo kit already installed w/ necessary fuel upgrades? What are some typical problems with going single over keeping the stock twins and doing bpu,bpu+,bpu++, etc mods?
This will vary wildly depending upon how well the installs were executed (most critical), the quality of parts, and how the car has been treated and cared for (also very important). Beyond that, it is impossible to make any blanket statements. FWIW, my car has been dead reliable for 5+ years of being on a single turbo. I've seen others that can't seem to keep running for 1000 consecutive miles. It all depends upon the variables I noted above.

Do a search (if it's working) because this has been discussed to death about 20 times.
 

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if everything was installed correctly then it will last,most of the time people take short cuts due to parts being so expensive..
 

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Boost Junkie said:
This will vary wildly depending upon how well the installs were executed (most critical), the quality of parts, and how the car has been treated and cared for (also very important). Beyond that, it is impossible to make any blanket statements. FWIW, my car has been dead reliable for 5+ years of being on a single turbo. I've seen others that can't seem to keep running for 1000 consecutive miles. It all depends upon the variables I noted above.

Do a search (if it's working) because this has been discussed to death about 20 times.
ditto
 

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Mine has been just as reliable since going single, but I dont drive it but maybe once every 3 months or so, LOL
I agree w/ the others, its all about how it was handled. Id take my high miled well cared for single over a lot of the lower miled beat to hell ones. Some see the miles and assume its about to die. I know that w/ any car, its about how it was cared for MUCH more than it has to do with the actual miles. Its like anything, to a point. Half ass a "normal" car(read:450hp or so) and its going to have issues. Now, half ass a 700+whp car, its not going to last but a very short time until it finds the weak link you left in. Nature of the beast, and unfortunatly for the halfass'ers out there, much worse in the supra community due to the insane ammount of hp we can make.
Now, having said that, it takes quite some time to be able to controll a supra at BPU, much less single. I know everything thinks there king shit when it comes to driving, but 700whp is NO JOKE and will kill you fast
 

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slither said:
but 700whp is NO JOKE and will kill you fast
Very true.. A single car can be very reliable IMO, you can daily drive it and on weekends take it to the drags as long as normal maintanance is done and the car is tuned correctly.

Lawrence
 

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It also depends a lot on the size single that's on the car. If it's a small single, it's probably not making much more power than a BPU++++ setup anyway. Things like the clutch aren't going to be stressed all that much more. But if you're talking large singles putting out 600-1000 hp, then all the other components get stressed a lot more. Also, if it's a lot larger turbo, how the fuel was done makes a big difference on how it acts as a daily driver. Having a crummy fuel map is no fun to drive around on.
 

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I'm with James. I have put plenty of miles on mine and averaged 24 MPG with a 74GTS. Switch fuel and boost setting and bam! 800+RWHP!

That easy.

Tires, clutches (if you don't have a carbon/carbon setup) and plugs are the main wear/tear items on singled cars.

DP
 

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From my experience not very reliable. But thats any high horsepower car. A 700 hp trans am will blow up just as quick or quicker.

High hp cars exist in a vacuum, dont do well in real world applications. why do you think you pay so much for a lambo? (well other than the suspension and that carbon fiber frame and such :) )
 

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MissSupra said:
From my experience not very reliable. But thats any high horsepower car. A 700 hp trans am will blow up just as quick or quicker.

High hp cars exist in a vacuum, dont do well in real world applications. why do you think you pay so much for a lambo? (well other than the suspension and that carbon fiber frame and such :) )
I agree. I've owned a single as well. I spent $50k in parts and labor. Car needed to go out of the city to find a reputable shop to have the work performed. Car was down much longer than anticipated to get the work done, car had issues that needed to be worked out after everything was "completed" and the car was "ready". Those issues were eventually worked out after several trips back to the shop 150 miles away which was a total pain in the ass and completely impractical.

Even after the immediate problems and issues were worked out and the car drove well, the problems and issues the car would have were problems and issues that a manufacturer's car generally wouldn't have, and even if a manufacturer's car had such problems, there would be a manufacturer's procedure for diagnosis and repair that could be performed LOCALLY by a CERTIFIED DEALER instead of some internet procedure performed at some speed shop which had no credibility whatsoever. Bottom line, aftermarket parts are, for the most part, not as reliable as manufacturer's parts, with few rare exceptions. Car was a pain in the ass to fix when it had a problem cuz no 1 knew how to work on it and the place that did it wasn't local they were 150 miles away and it wasn't practical for me to drive there when there was a problem or an issue. Even locally repairable, I'm not sure I would want to own a car like that again. The whole thing is experimental.

I also couldn't get it properly insured from my insurance company due to all the mods, insurance cos don't insure heavily modded cars like that, there are a few rare exceptions and they are hard to find and have strict limitations and requirements. 99% of the insurance companies out there don't cover all those mods. Car was emissions illegal also and I had to get smog hookups and pay fines for tickets for loud exhaust and modified emissions and I got tired of dealing with courts.

Bottom line, it was fun to do once for the experiment and the experience, it's not worth doing AGAIN after having the experience and from lack of ignorance. Ignorance is bliss. Don't get me wrong, even today I'd like to have a 600hp supra or whatever, but after being disillusioned as to the realities and practicalities of it, it's just not worth doing again. This is the reason why people pay $90k for a Viper or $200-$300k for a Ferrari or Lambo. :rolleyes: I got a brand new 05 Viper also cuz I got tired of the bs and the frustration with those types of cars The Viper is leased because its American and will fall apart by the time the lease ends. The lease ends when the warranty expires, at which time I will give it back and get another BRAND NEW one under warranty again.

Heavily modded cars are not what people think they are. It is a flawed policy wrapped in illusion and is usually done out of ignorance of the reality, practicality, durability, and general sustainability of it.
 

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Boost Junkie said:
This will vary wildly depending upon how well the installs were executed (most critical), the quality of parts, and how the car has been treated and cared for (also very important). Beyond that, it is impossible to make any blanket statements. FWIW, my car has been dead reliable for 5+ years of being on a single turbo. I've seen others that can't seem to keep running for 1000 consecutive miles. It all depends upon the variables I noted above.

Do a search (if it's working) because this has been discussed to death about 20 times.
I hope the thread starter realizes who this guy is, one of the most knowledgeable, helpful and hard data-gathering MKIV Supra OGs around. I concur entirely with his comments.

I have a one-owner 94 MKIV APU 6MT Supra with 55K miles, with almost exactly one-half of those miles at APU (went APU with 28K on the car) at power levels ranging from a minimum of 577 whp, to 666 whp, to 690 whp, to 789 whp, to 801 whp, to 1076 whp, to, finally 1110 whp. Those power levels represent minor or MAJOR changes to my set-up, with the jump from 801 whp to, initially, 1076 whp representing my move to an HKS 3.4L stroker.

HPDE instructors have told me I have excellent mechanical empathy and, FWIW, I had an OS Giken triple disc (rebuilt once) in my pre-stroker days (that clutch continues to lead a good life in a GS 400/2JZ-GTE/6MT 854 whp conversion in Florida and I now have an OS Giken quad-disc set-up for the stroker with custom SP Engineering flywheel bolts because my 800+ lb-ft at the wheels sheared several of the bolts when I was driving with bad intentions. No problems since these bolts were installed. I also had a well chronicled (in Turbo and SCC) incident at the BFG-sponsored G-Games where I DNFed after blowing out my power steering in 108-degree ambient and track temps of 142-degrees, but not before my car set fastest lap of the truly street cars in attendance. Bear in mind I have a JDM GReddy 4-row which is a full six-inches thick, the primary cause of my power steering fluid going from red to black as pitch when it overheated.

My car is just a weekend, pleasure driving, bike racing mood changer. It's not daily driven but, when driven, it's driven long distances to Vegas every year (600-mile round trip) and to a number of Cali race facilities (Infineon; Laguna Seca--800-900-mile round trips) from where I reside in SoCali. Also, SPE, my tuner, is a 100-mile round trip each and every time I drive there in the car (just brought it home yesterday in 50-mile bumper to bumper on the S.R. 60 freeway in 100+ degree temperatures).

When I went stroker, I used a new Toyota shortblock (just the bare block) for the install and sold my old, built shortblock (in perfect condition, btw, after all the miles I put on it) to a dear friend and owner of the Clash of the Titans II exhaust shootout car. This car has 180,000 miles on it, with over 70,000 miles on its HKS 2835R twin set-up and my old built shortblock is going better than ever in that car. The common themes with all three cars is that both MKIV Supras and the GS 400/2JZ-GTE/6MT conversion were all built by SP Engineering, for my money the best builder and tuner of super high horsepower Supras in the country, and the owners of the vehicles in question purchased the best parts available in their build-ups and are meticulous in the maintenance and upkeep of their cars.

I've done a lot of research with respect to tires, brakes and brake pads and, since I want the best tires and pads available to suit my driving style, I have changed these items fairly often and long before they were worn out because I am always experimenting in these areas (Dunlop SP 8000s, Michelin Pilot Sport MXX3s, Bridgestone Potenza S-02 Pole Positions, Potenza S-02As, which are on my 18-inch wheels and Michelin PS2s on my 19-inch wheels; and, Pagid, Hawk, Porterfield and, currently Ferodo brake pads, all with 14-inch/4-piston caliper Brembos, front and rear). I am anal about air pressure and alignments and got 24K miles from my S-02 Pole Positions before SELLING them and the Work wheels they were mounted on to Brian Robards, a member of this board. The rears were near their useful life span, but the fronts were in great shape. I believe Brian got another 5k or so miles before the rears finally gave up.

I'm proactive about maintenance, changing my oil, for instance, every 1000-1500 miles but never more than 2,500 miles, since anything over 2000 miles begins to affect my peace of mind. I do this even though I use Redline synthetic and could go many, many more miles before a change was required. And, yes, I could go with mineral oil and save money (on filters as well), but that's just me and the way I go about maintaining my APU car. I have treated my car very well and, in turn, it has treated me very well. It all starts, though, with using very good parts, having a quality install, whether its from a reputable tuner or a highly competent DIYer (like JamesN1830), and an excellent tune. Shortchange your vehicle in any one of these major areas and you will rue the day you went APU or, in some cases BPU. Hope this helps.

Ken.

P.S. I don't drag race, so how you intend to use your car is a BIG factor in how it will treat you. Even then, some guys are just ham-fisted, heavy handed and hard on machinery and will destroy anything they drive no matter how good the parts, install and tune.
 

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^^^^this guy's good!
I guess not much else needs to be said...
 

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`Heavily modded cars are not what people think they are. It is a flawed policy wrapped in illusion and is usually done out of ignorance of the reality, practicality, durability, and general sustainability of it.`

that is so SERIOUSLY true x10
 

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Ken,
Great comment's as alway's. Your knowledge of the supra alway's exceed's my expectation's. I was watching how you were talking about changing your combo's on your car. I currently have stepped it up on my car and don't want to cut any corner's either but I have a quick off topic question. I know you run PS2's on your 19's like me but I was wondering if you are going (or already have) tried the michelin cup's on your 19's? Just curious because my APU should be done soon and it look's a valid option for me with my increase in power.
 

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kerry1 said:
Ken,
Great comment's as alway's. Your knowledge of the supra alway's exceed's my expectation's. I was watching how you were talking about changing your combo's on your car. I currently have stepped it up on my car and don't want to cut any corner's either but I have a quick off topic question. I know you run PS2's on your 19's like me but I was wondering if you are going (or already have) tried the michelin cup's on your 19's? Just curious because my APU should be done soon and it look's a valid option for me with my increase in power.
Kerry,

I hear really good things about the Pilot Sport Cups from AMMO and Dave Mashour, although I believe they have a wear rating of about 80 or so, LOL. I had not considered them for my 19-inch application because I thought, possibly wrongly, that they did not come in wide enough applications for my 19 x 12s in the rear. For me, a 345/30/19 would be about perfect (as opposed to my current 315/25/19 PS2s), but I believe the only Michelin tire that comes in that size is the Pilot Sport.

If I lived in Vegas full-time like you guys, I would definitely go with the Pilot Sport Cups AND Race Logic. I believe you know I have the Race Logic and, with the quality of the PS2s and roads, generally, not nearly as slick as Vegas Roads, it's worked out to be a pretty good combo for me. Hope this helps and best of luck with your build-up. I know you spent a lot of time thinking about it.

Ken.
 

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KenHenderson said:
Kerry,

I hear really good things about the Pilot Sport Cups from AMMO and Dave Mashour, although I believe they have a wear rating of about 80 or so, LOL. I had not considered them for my 19-inch application because I thought, possibly wrongly, that they did not come in wide enough applications for my 19 x 12s in the rear. For me, a 345/30/19 would be about perfect (as opposed to my current 315/25/19 PS2s), but I believe the only Michelin tire that comes in that size is the Pilot Sport.

If I lived in Vegas full-time like you guys, I would definitely go with the Pilot Sport Cups AND Race Logic. I believe you know I have the Race Logic and, with the quality of the PS2s and roads, generally, not nearly as slick as Vegas Roads, it's worked out to be a pretty good combo for me. Hope this helps and best of luck with your build-up. I know you spent a lot of time thinking about it.

Ken.
Ken,
Thank's for the response. Yeah Dave love's the cup's also trent and garth have them on their TT viper's with good success. My car will be set up for the freeway and I'm not worried about drag's. I knew you ran the race logic but not 345's! The cup's finally come in 19's for a 305/30/19 (direct replacement for the new porshe's) which I currently run a 295 so it won't be much different. Yeah I'm aware of the 80 rating but that's the price we pay for these toy's. :) And yes to get back on topic, I spent alot of time to find the set up I wanted and Dana at virtualwork's helped me with any of the other question's/decision's I had. It was great to have a reputable shop near by to guide me in the right direction. I didn't want to go on the "cheap" with my build and have taken extra precaution's to buy anything I think will keep my new set up together for a long time. (Until I go bigger again ;) )
 

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KenHenderson said:
I hope the thread starter realizes who this guy is, one of the most knowledgeable, helpful and hard data-gathering MKIV Supra OGs around. I concur entirely with his comments.

I have a one-owner 94 MKIV APU 6MT Supra with 55K miles, with almost exactly one-half of those miles at APU (went APU with 28K on the car) at power levels ranging from a minimum of 577 whp, to 666 whp, to 690 whp, to 789 whp, to 801 whp, to 1076 whp, to, finally 1110 whp. Those power levels represent minor or MAJOR changes to my set-up, with the jump from 801 whp to, initially, 1076 whp representing my move to an HKS 3.4L stroker.

HPDE instructors have told me I have excellent mechanical empathy and, FWIW, I had an OS Giken triple disc (rebuilt once) in my pre-stroker days (that clutch continues to lead a good life in a GS 400/2JZ-GTE/6MT 854 whp conversion in Florida and I now have an OS Giken quad-disc set-up for the stroker with custom SP Engineering flywheel bolts because my 800+ lb-ft at the wheels sheared several of the bolts when I was driving with bad intentions. No problems since these bolts were installed. I also had a well chronicled (in Turbo and SCC) incident at the BFG-sponsored G-Games where I DNFed after blowing out my power steering in 108-degree ambient and track temps of 142-degrees, but not before my car set fastest lap of the truly street cars in attendance. Bear in mind I have a JDM GReddy 4-row which is a full six-inches thick, the primary cause of my power steering fluid going from red to black as pitch when it overheated.

My car is just a weekend, pleasure driving, bike racing mood changer. It's not daily driven but, when driven, it's driven long distances to Vegas every year (600-mile round trip) and to a number of Cali race facilities (Infineon; Laguna Seca--800-900-mile round trips) from where I reside in SoCali. Also, SPE, my tuner, is a 100-mile round trip each and every time I drive there in the car (just brought it home yesterday in 50-mile bumper to bumper on the S.R. 60 freeway in 100+ degree temperatures).

When I went stroker, I used a new Toyota shortblock (just the bare block) for the install and sold my old, built shortblock (in perfect condition, btw, after all the miles I put on it) to a dear friend and owner of the Clash of the Titans II exhaust shootout car. This car has 180,000 miles on it, with over 70,000 miles on its HKS 2835R twin set-up and my old built shortblock is going better than ever in that car. The common themes with all three cars is that both MKIV Supras and the GS 400/2JZ-GTE/6MT conversion were all built by SP Engineering, for my money the best builder and tuner of super high horsepower Supras in the country, and the owners of the vehicles in question purchased the best parts available in their build-ups and are meticulous in the maintenance and upkeep of their cars.

I've done a lot of research with respect to tires, brakes and brake pads and, since I want the best tires and pads available to suit my driving style, I have changed these items fairly often and long before they were worn out because I am always experimenting in these areas (Dunlop SP 8000s, Michelin Pilot Sport MXX3s, Bridgestone Potenza S-02 Pole Positions, Potenza S-02As, which are on my 18-inch wheels and Michelin PS2s on my 19-inch wheels; and, Pagid, Hawk, Porterfield and, currently Ferodo brake pads, all with 14-inch/4-piston caliper Brembos, front and rear). I am anal about air pressure and alignments and got 24K miles from my S-02 Pole Positions before SELLING them and the Work wheels they were mounted on to Brian Robards, a member of this board. The rears were near their useful life span, but the fronts were in great shape. I believe Brian got another 5k or so miles before the rears finally gave up.

I'm proactive about maintenance, changing my oil, for instance, every 1000-1500 miles but never more than 2,500 miles, since anything over 2000 miles begins to affect my peace of mind. I do this even though I use Redline synthetic and could go many, many more miles before a change was required. And, yes, I could go with mineral oil and save money (on filters as well), but that's just me and the way I go about maintaining my APU car. I have treated my car very well and, in turn, it has treated me very well. It all starts, though, with using very good parts, having a quality install, whether its from a reputable tuner or a highly competent DIYer (like JamesN1830), and an excellent tune. Shortchange your vehicle in any one of these major areas and you will rue the day you went APU or, in some cases BPU. Hope this helps.

Ken.

P.S. I don't drag race, so how you intend to use your car is a BIG factor in how it will treat you. Even then, some guys are just ham-fisted, heavy handed and hard on machinery and will destroy anything they drive no matter how good the parts, install and tune.
Ken, just so you know, I don't REGRET building my single. I enjoyed it quite a bit, it was very fun and very fast. But after a mechanic totaled it, I had enough from the industry. I had been thru a lot to build that car up and I wanted to reap its rewards. The thought of going thru all over again what I had gone thru and doing another round of experimentation all over again and dealing with the mechanics all over again was just too much and not worth it. I really don't like dealing with mechanics, they are not people I like nor trust. I dealt with them once to get the car done, they totaled it, and I'm not dealing with them all over again. Also, I don't like parts that after installation don't perform as represented. Sometimes I think about doing it again but the stress just isn't worth it. I just want a car I can drive and go WOT and enjoy, not something that takes a year to build, needs bugs worked out after building, has a lot of trial and error involved with it, requires dealing with mechanics a lot, has a lot of worry associated with it, is underinsured, is illegal, etc. I don't want that type of a car, it's not worth it no matter how much hp it makes when there are easier and less stressful ways of having fun by just buying a fast car and leaving it alone. This is the exact reason why, when I got my 2nd supra, I left it alone with the BPU mods it had on it. I don't want to deal with drama anymore.
 
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