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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Hey All.
So, 94 Supra with build long block.
Best parts are tossed in, but with gapless rings setup. (Will probably come up in discussion)
1mm over on valve and ported with best parts.
7675 1gen setup and Running Proefi128

My fuel setup runs a sound performance rail. One side is Primary pump, other side secondary. Flex sensor use to be on the Primary side. Then poof, like that, someone flipped my setup around while in a body shop ( had the car inspected for any rust)
I did not notice it as I was already on E85 for the Summer so the car showed e77% on my screen.... Went to fill up with 95 octane for storage time in the winter. This all was last year October 2021.
Turned down to lowes boost, I immediately noticed that my octane was not changing.
Night time, not messing with this at the pump station, I had my last few pulls at "15psi". That horribly failed. My AFR went to shit as it was not reading true Primary line as the flex was on the secondary line, thinking it still had E85.
Needless to say, 15 psi became 26psi.
We all know 1200hp spools up fast and damage happens so fast.
Yet, I know what caused all my sad sad damages I have.
My questions are so many.
ProEfi, why did wideband not prevent detonation. Why did this not go into limp mode or give me your check engine light on my cam-bus screen.
I have DBW setup. It did not cut fuel, nor let out through 4 or 5 pulls. Yet, I was on my 1 stage for boost controller.
Each pull was decent, no noise and never cut fuel.
Secondary fuel line never turned on either. I am setup for 45% injector duty to trigger secondary line. I checked my pumps, both are good, plugged in, got dedicated 12v lines. Tested and retested to make sure.
Dropped the inline filters, to see if I got water in the E85 lines that tends to plug the screens. All good.

So what the hell would prevent ProEfi not too save my detonation issue 4 or 5 times on lowest setting?? My car is dialed in for 700hp pump 93 at nr1 setting at 15 psi.
I understand the fact that the only thing that saved me was the exhaust o2 sensors. It had to have seen that the mix does not match my AFR. Or am I blinded by my stupidity?
Anyways... good news. Head is in great shape. No Cracks, valves are perfect. Setup is gsc2 cams with Ferrara valve train.
Block has on each sleeve a super super tiny scrape. Not enough to catch it with your nail, but visible to the eye. Needs to be machined 0.2 or .5 over. So this is where my question comes in on gapless rings. Why would this fail instead of melting my head. Pistons are coated and so that's why it got saved.
But how does my head survive this but not the rings?
Now I'm up in the air about why someone would screw with my car in the first place at a body shop and I would never be able to proof this, secondly in some weird way I feel that ProEfi let me down or did it? I'm scratching my head on this too.
Do I go to Motec, Heltec? Just send my 128 in to ProEfi and have them check it out?
Lesson learned about flex fuel sensors. Return line and all lines in from now will have a sensor.
Probably just be running mechanical fuel pump and dry sump going forward.

So goals I guess are also up on my drawing board. Carrillo rods and CP pistons was my weapons of choice till now, but my car was build in 2014, only did 3k miles on this build, most of this was driving....
I actually will have time to spend behind the wheel in upcoming summer since I owned the car feom 2012(Work always was my issue of never getting seat time cus of that)
What do I do here forward....

Goals, I'd like to stick with a 7675 setup, or something that would flow current headers(ETS setup), but I would like to go to circuit and have fun, but also be having fun at night on the streets. Car ran 10:1 ratio. With a .96 AR setup.
I am so out of touch on the latest turbos that are streetable and no need to spray. 7675 always was great for this best of both worlds scenario.
Do I go 3.4 stroker? That be a shit ton of money. New rods, crank... there goes 10k. Or stick to longblock and look for newer turbo setup for what I want to achieve this upcoming summer?

Biggest thing is to start with ECU. Really just blown away with what I dealt with.
What are you guy's thought on my shitlist of headaches and goals.

Ps, going over to Grannas transmission and 8.8 rear setup and saving my v160.

I hope to get a spot with 2jz motorsports to take on my project or closer to home is sound performance. Either or... hard to get in with all these guys.

Any ideas on my issues and future?

Thanks motorheads.
 

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In the simplest terms, you have a complex setup with a flex fuel sensor providing the ECU the wrong information.

The ProEFI was doing what it was being told to do. Running E10 (93 octane) when ProEFI thought you were at 77% ethanol and it would have been trying to shove in 30-35% more fuel than needed. Most people would setup a lean cut, but you were probably like 8:1 or 9:1 AFRs and drowning the engine in fuel.

1. Always check your ethanol percentage after a fill-up to make sure it is reading a level it should be.
2. I always leave up the peak screen on my BTI gauge which gives you a freeze frame of the highest boost level from the most recent pull and provides all the pertinent data with it. You would have seen an extremely rich AFR and known something was wrong.
3. As you already stated, put the flex fuel sensor on the return line so it doesn't/can't happen again...
 

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Your post is all of the place, but if I understand you correctly the flex fuel sensor was sensor was reading 77% ethanol when you were on pump gas? In that case you were PIG RICH, which it would be really hard to do any major damage (although possible).
I agree with the post above. It sounds like the ecu is doing exactly what it was supposed to based on poor data coming in.


Can you explain in detail what you mean by primary and secondary fuel systems? Typically this verbiage would mean you have pump gas in one fuel system and methanol or race gas in a completely separate fuel system. This is not how 99.99% of Supras are setup. Perhaps yours is different.

Also, you mention reading "octane" which is not possible through any gauge . Second your screen shot shows your gauge is setup reading stoichiometric of pump gas/afr. You need to change that to lambda or DesEQ if you want to be able to see what is actually going on.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Your post is all of the place, but if I understand you correctly the flex fuel sensor was sensor was reading 77% ethanol when you were on pump gas? In that case you were PIG RICH, which it would be really hard to do any major damage (although possible).
I agree with the post above. It sounds like the ecu is doing exactly what it was supposed to based on poor data coming in.


Can you explain in detail what you mean by primary and secondary fuel systems? Typically this verbiage would mean you have pump gas in one fuel system and methanol or race gas in a completely separate fuel system. This is not how 99.99% of Supras are setup. Perhaps yours is different.

Also, you mention reading "octane" which is not possible through any gauge . Second your screen shot shows your gauge is setup reading stoichiometric of pump gas/afr. You need to change that to lambda or DesEQ if you want to be able to see what is actually going on.
In the simplest terms, you have a complex setup with a flex fuel sensor providing the ECU the wrong information.

The ProEFI was doing what it was being told to do. Running E10 (93 octane) when ProEFI thought you were at 77% ethanol and it would have been trying to shove in 30-35% more fuel than needed. Most people would setup a lean cut, but you were probably like 8:1 or 9:1 AFRs and drowning the engine in fuel.

1. Always check your ethanol percentage after a fill-up to make sure it is reading a level it should be.
2. I always leave up the peak screen on my BTI gauge which gives you a freeze frame of the highest boost level from the most recent pull and provides all the pertinent data with it. You would have seen an extremely rich AFR and known something was wrong.
3. As you already stated, put the flex fuel sensor on the return line so it doesn't/can't happen again...
Hi, Thanks for the thorough reply.
Yes, definitely will run the return line for the flex sensor. I still have NO idea why it would hurt the rings.
On the other hand, Being that the sensor was on the wrong side.... I am still just confused that i dropped the rings. If perhaps it could have been from drowning the piston in fuel and about hydro locking it almost, then i can see that that would result in some of this. I would've thought it would completely lock the motor from over fueling it. But perhaps i was just really really lucky. IDK.
The saddest part in all of this is that, I still don't know why in the world you have a shop mess with some ones car like that.
I spoke to my car tuner today. Just going to stick to long block for now. Make sure that all sensors are all working and add more if need be. Make my ProEFI really work for its money.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Your post is all of the place, but if I understand you correctly the flex fuel sensor was sensor was reading 77% ethanol when you were on pump gas? In that case you were PIG RICH, which it would be really hard to do any major damage (although possible).
I agree with the post above. It sounds like the ecu is doing exactly what it was supposed to based on poor data coming in.


Can you explain in detail what you mean by primary and secondary fuel systems? Typically this verbiage would mean you have pump gas in one fuel system and methanol or race gas in a completely separate fuel system. This is not how 99.99% of Supras are setup. Perhaps yours is different.

Also, you mention reading "octane" which is not possible through any gauge . Second your screen shot shows your gauge is setup reading stoichiometric of pump gas/afr. You need to change that to lambda or DesEQ if you want to be able to see what is actually going on.
Your post is all of the place, but if I understand you correctly the flex fuel sensor was sensor was reading 77% ethanol when you were on pump gas? In that case you were PIG RICH, which it would be really hard to do any major damage (although possible).
I agree with the post above. It sounds like the ecu is doing exactly what it was supposed to based on poor data coming in.


Can you explain in detail what you mean by primary and secondary fuel systems? Typically this verbiage would mean you have pump gas in one fuel system and methanol or race gas in a completely separate fuel system. This is not how 99.99% of Supras are setup. Perhaps yours is different.

Also, you mention reading "octane" which is not possible through any gauge . Second your screen shot shows your gauge is setup reading stoichiometric of pump gas/afr. You need to change that to lambda or DesEQ if you want to be able to see what is actually going on.

Sorry If my post was jumping all over the place with my story, ( Got out of surgery 4 hrs before i made my post, look where my mind was, My car !!馃榿 )
I have 2 fuel pumps that run my fuel rail. I call it my primary and secondary as just one is needed to run and do most of the work till i need to make more power and the second pump kicks in. The flex sensor got swopped over to the secondary line while at the body shop. Not sure why they would need to undo fuel lines when they inspect my car for any rust. Being that I wanted to go back to pump gas 95 and not want to park my car for the winter with E85 in it, that is how i was using the tern 95 octane. It's just pump gas replacing my E85. My screen was showing Lambda for ethanol content, Like it should. At the end of the day, I lost all 6 rings, No idea why. Even when i was running way rich. The only thing i could think was that too much fuel on top of my piston and i had a small % of hydro lock and breaking my Pistons rings. I might be way off and that is why I am here to see if anyone can read into this issue.
Talking to my Tuner today, they just said to bring the car back in and they will figure it out. I'm not that kind of person to have someone just wash the issue away and give an "what ever explanation" to me. I really would like to know what can cause my rings to drop, all of them, not damaging my head, Barely scratch my sleeves. That is what I don't get.

Any ideas would help me to look deeper into what i have not yet read up on.

thanks
 

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Your rings and ring lands usually go first under a boosted lean out, but I would certainly be checking your valve sealing surface for leaks, which the quick and dirty way to check that is just fill the ports with solvent withthe ports facing up- exhaust first because that鈥檚 what probably got hurt if anything. I also do not like those total seal 鈥済apless鈥 rings because they are fragile and I had a bad experience with them in a drag bike. Should use a dry sump or at very least a vacuum pump to keep blow by and crank pressure at bay with properly gapped (for your boost level) regular ass rings in my opinion
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Your rings and ring lands usually go first under a boosted lean out, but I would certainly be checking your valve sealing surface for leaks, which the quick and dirty way to check that is just fill the ports with solvent withthe ports facing up- exhaust first because that鈥檚 what probably got hurt if anything. I also do not like those total seal 鈥済apless鈥 rings because they are fragile and I had a bad experience with them in a drag bike. Should use a dry sump or at very least a vacuum pump to keep blow by and crank pressure at bay with properly gapped (for your boost level) regular ass rings in my opinion
Thanks for the reply.
Going with dry sump now.
Did a leak down test also. Nothing came through my valves. Hot or cold side.
But did have good airflow through my venting system. Air passed the rings big time.
And then the Gapless rings, that's why I was asking more about this. Cus it seems like that was by far the weakest point, and cheap repair also.
Once I get the block and head to the shop, perhaps we can figure out what the builder say about this all.
 
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