[Kracin]

ok, so getting ready to rebuild my 7m here again.. gonna put new bearings in along with a brand new set of eagle rods and wiesco pistons.

now, i figured i would use the standard sizes for the main bearings because its gonna be stamped in there ready to go so i can order them and move on.

but the rod bearings are giving me some hassle... i assumed i could size the eagle rods with a micrometer, then measure the rod journal on the crank as well, to give me an accurate size of the bearing needed and order it from clevite. but a friend who does extremely reputable work was stating that the rods themselves should all come in the same sizes so getting a measurement from the rod isnt needed??? i would have assumed that needing both measurements would be nessesary because the eagle rods probably dont come in the same size as stock... since stock in the manual for the rods can be 3 different sizes (1,2,3 as stamped on the rod itself), match that with the block (0,1,2) and you get 5 different possible sizes of bearings...

am i missing something here? what is the way i should be getting the size of the bearings for this new set of rods? last thing i need is to rebuild this and have to tear it down 10 miles later because i screwed up 1 measurement.

thanks

 

[Zumtizzle]

Did the crank get checked out by a machine shop?

It may need to be grinded.

And Use Clevite or any standards with Eagles.

 

[Jeff Lange]

If you are going to use select-fit bearings, you will need to measure the rods and the crank after all the work has been done to the crank. I think your friend is probably not familiar with select-fit standard sized bearings that allow you to chance clearances at the smallest of sizes to get the proper oil clearance.

Most aftermarket bearings do not come in select-fit sizes.

Even the factory rods need to be measured to get the right bearings if using OE-style select fit bearings.

Jeff

 

[Kracin]

crank doesnt need grinding, its from a low mileage donor motor with zero engine problems before teardown. so it should be good to go for using the size markings on it still.

as for the bearings though.

if i dont go with the select fit sizes, is there a standard size bearing like the previous post that would be used along with the journal size?

and i see a number stamped on the eagle rods... would those be any relation to the big end diameter???

 

[yingling]

You have to start somewhere. Here's what I would do. Purchase 1 set of rod bearings of your choice. That would be two bearing halves. Install them in one rod and torque to spec. Then measure the inside diameter with a mike. Measure the outside diameter of the crank and subtract the differance. The amount you get is the actual bearing clearance. Go one step further and install this assembly in the cylinder position that you want and plasti-gauge it. You will now have a base setting to work with for that cylinder and the remaining ones. Hope that helps.

 

[yakuzastinger]

If your using clevite (reboxed NDC) U dont have the option of sizing them just get a box of standard sizes and check them with plasti they should all be within spec but not all the same spec. This works and i have had no issues with this using eagle rods in an engine in the 500-600hp range. Make sure u do plasti and measure the bearings the machine qualtiy is close on these bearings but not exact some are hair bigger and some a hair smaller just on accident from the factory. I have had to move some around in the bottom end before finally assembly cause one is tighter and one is looser than i desire where as my rods and crank where the same.

NOW if you are using toyota bearings and want and exact spec on ALL the rods then u get to do some measuring and some math.

if u are having ur crank polished or coated or any work done to it get that done first. Then triple mic your journal diamter on each one. Then triple mic the rod big end with rod bolts torqued to spec. Take that number and minus ur desired tolerance the result is the bearing size u will then need to order from toyota. THIS TAKES FOREVER but makes for amazing oil pressure when done correctly and done in accordance with the mains this way.

I then go back and plasti the bearings install to torque spec to ensure proper spec

 

[Kracin]

ok, well it sounds like i have to go with the standard size clevite bearings, but looking at my crank i should be ok. the numbers on them are all the same except for 1. so the numbers showing for the journals is 1 11 21 1, as opposed to being 3 numbers apart. so the clearances when using regular standard size bearings should be good. theres been no machine work, and there isnt any needed either, all moving parts are brand new, and the crank is a low miles no oil problems crank.

thanks for the feedback guys, hopefully this will help someone else who wants to get a little more technical with their bearings later.

 

[yingling]

Kracin, do not assume anything. Measure and measure again. There is no room for error here.

 

[Kracin]

i do know im plastigauging everything before final assembly to make sure the clearances are fine, theres no way im going to assemble it if its incredibly tight or incredibly loose, and im gonna measure what i can to make sure the sizes arent really far off from stock either for sure, but going with clevite bearings just feels like a better idea than trying to use stock bearings with aftermarket rods, the stock rods are sized accordingly to fit with stock bearings, and i cant say the same for the eagle rods until measuring the big end diameter compared to stock ones.

 

[thorpedo]

yakuzastinger:

Clevite are not NDC, as they are all stamped Clevite on the back. If it does not say Clevite on the back then something else has been stuck in a Clevite box.

As for variations in Clevite bearing thicknesses i highly doubt that. I have installed countless numbers of these bearings and I have yet to see more than .0001 variation in a set. (which is excellent) If you are getting variation then rather you are not aligning all the bearings the same, there is variation in the rod ID or your measuring methods are whack. (keep in mind if you are using plstiguage there is variation in results depending on what kind/how much lubricant you use on the crank and bearings.

Rod housing diameter between the eagle and factory rods should be close to identical if torqued properly. Keep in mind eagle's recommended torque may differ from toyota's. If so go with what eagle says as they engineered their rod to work with a specified torque.

Measure crank to verify it is within spec. Install rods and check them with plasti-guage. If changes need to be made then worry about it then.

 

[Kracin]

yakuzastinger:

Clevite are not NDC, as they are all stamped Clevite on the back. If it does not say Clevite on the back then something else has been stuck in a Clevite box.

As for variations in Clevite bearing thicknesses i highly doubt that. I have installed countless numbers of these bearings and I have yet to see more than .0001 variation in a set. (which is excellent) If you are getting variation then rather you are not aligning all the bearings the same, there is variation in the rod ID or your measuring methods are whack. (keep in mind if you are using plstiguage there is variation in results depending on what kind/how much lubricant you use on the crank and bearings.

Rod housing diameter between the eagle and factory rods should be close to identical if torqued properly. Keep in mind eagle's recommended torque may differ from toyota's. If so go with what eagle says as they engineered their rod to work with a specified torque.

Measure crank to verify it is within spec. Install rods and check them with plasti-guage. If changes need to be made then worry about it then.

thats what i was planning on, thanks!

 

[QWIKSTRIKE]

I'd take my crank, and rods to a very reputable machine shop and get each journal sized for a select fit bering, and have them marked, and install them accordingly

 

[turbotoy]

Measure the crank, measure your new rods, measure the mains (verify stamped numbers are correct), follow the procedure in the TSRM to determine what bearings you need and order them from your Toyota dealer.

 

[yakuzastinger]

I dont know where u get ur clevites for a 7m at but i never seen one say clevite on the bearings and I have bought in the neighborhood of 200 sets I am measuring the bearings NOT plasticgauge when i am talking about a difference in thickness. SO how its install in the engine wouldnt make a single bit of difference.

How do u use plasti with the crank lubricated? Additionally it is impossible to install 7m bearings backwards. Its specifically says to insure all surfaces are pure and clean. The only thing u will have lubricated at this time is the bolts thread

 

[Kracin]

anyone know the quality difference between clevite bearings and toyota select fit bearings? about wear conditions under an engine pushing stock rev limit and around 500-550 hp?

 

[Kracin]

ok, so anyway, a little me researching, and eagle has very accurate measurement apparently.. and they should for 600 bucks a set for rods.

http://www.eaglerod.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=21&Itemid=32

here on their site, the big end ID bore for the rods is 2.1670. in toyota numbers thats on the threshold for a number 3 rod. and my crank has 5 number 1's and 1 number 2.... so that comes out for bearings, 5 number 4 bearings, and 1 number 5 bearing... anyone else see anything wrong with that?

 

[thorpedo]

I dont know where u get ur clevites for a 7m at but i never seen one say clevite on the bearings and I have bought in the neighborhood of 200 sets I am measuring the bearings NOT plasticgauge when i am talking about a difference in thickness. SO how its install in the engine wouldnt make a single bit of difference.

How do u use plasti with the crank lubricated? Additionally it is impossible to install 7m bearings backwards. Its specifically says to insure all surfaces are pure and clean. The only thing u will have lubricated at this time is the bolts thread

I buy them directly from clevite. They are ALL stamped clevite, and yes they are available for the 7m. You are getting some other bearing stuck in a clevite box by the sounds of it. You won't find variation in any clevite bearings.

You can use plasti with the crank lubricated if you factor in the amount of space the lube takes up. (contact the plastiguage manufacturer and they will be able to tell you)

I did not say you could put them in backwards. People sometimes do not take the time to make sure that the bearings are seated in the rod and cap properly and that can lead to variation in rod bearing clearance. Or they get lube on the back of the bearing or on the rod ID which affects things as well.

In my experiences the clevites have worn similarly to the toyota OE. I don't think they would last quite as long as imo they seem to be a softer bearing. (no actual evidence behind that though) Which is good and bad. Shorter life but a ability to absorb small particles which can save an engine in certain situations....
You can get clevite "H" (or P i think?) series bearings as well. They are hardened and i can pretty much guarantee they will handle anything you throw at them. I've seen 1000hp on them without any problems.

As for your questions with the toyota numbered stuff i'm no help to you there. Not a fan of that system and i tend to stay out of it lol Sorry.

 

[Kracin]

all i need to make sure of is that clevite bearings, in standard sizes, wont be too large or too small of a clearance for the stock crank size.

from the looks of it, things look like they would match up pretty well...

like i said in my previous post, eagle rods, come in 2.1670 with no variance of big end ID bore. and in conjuction, that would mean number 4 bearings for the most part and 1 number 5, as the proper sizes for my crank.

toyota charts show .0595-.0596 as the number 5 bearing size.. and clevite bearings for the 7mgte as stardard size come in .0595 as the maximum bearing wall thickness... so just by looking at this, they pretty much match what i need exactly for crank+rod combo going on it. lucky me....

after looking at the numbers, ill probably end up getting the clevite H bearings, hopefully theres a local dealer i can purchase them from lol.

 

[thorpedo]

Everything sounds correct to me.

A local engine shop should be able to get them for you. When you get them don't be surprised if they look dirty as hell. (they're not) The hardening process they use makes them funky looking.

 

[PhotoInc]

anyone know the quality difference between clevite bearings and toyota select fit bearings? about wear conditions under an engine pushing stock rev limit and around 500-550 hp?

If your only going to push 550 hp's out of your 7M....why waste the money on rods? We ran an 89 turbo, had JE's, stock rods and bearings, made over 500 hp's, pounded the snot out of that motor on the track. We finally blew it up after adding NOS a 75 hp shot, about 10-15 runs, with around 25psi of boost. When we opened it up, the head was destroyed..... the bottom end, a couple of melted pistons.....rods and bearings all fine.