Supra Forums banner

1 - 11 of 11 Posts

·
Inline for the win
Joined
·
4,685 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
For the last number of years, I’ve been refining the car with the street/road course focus versus my prior interests. Between 3 different houses, jobs and other life events I finally did something I’ve been trying to do for the last number of years. A college friend kept harassing me to go out with one of the local Porsche clubs that was renting Mid-Ohio sports course in late Sept. There were other things going on with work and our newly built house that made me contemplate whether to do it or not for eleventeenth time. In end, I took the plunge, so it was time to finally go HPDEing!


I’m not going to go into the full build since that is covered in another thread, but I will touch upon what I had present for this event beyond OEM hardware:
Build Thread:


-Koyo Radiator, ETS 4-Row FMIC
-Setrab 25row Oil cooler with -12AN Goodridge lines
-Mocal SP1THF sandwich adapter
-Setrab 13row power steering cooler
-Tarmactr’s CTSV/ZL1 6-pot Front and 4pot rear Brembo conversion
-Motul 600 brake fluid w/ speed bleeders
-Brembo ISF cross drilled rotors
-Gloc brake pads GP10 Front and GP8 rear
-HKS Hipermax GTIV coil overs (Front: factory HKS settings, max dampening; Rear: raised .375”, max dampening)
-18 x 9.5 Enkei PF01 265/35ZR-18 MPSS 35psig
-18 x 10.5 Enkei PF01 285/35ZR-18 MPSS 35psig
-Boost limited to 13psi (WG).
-MoTeC M1 traction controlled not enabled, Warnings enabled (temps, pressure for oil, water, fuel, etc).

470 by Douglas Pelsor, on Flickr

Since the track is only 1-hr away my friend and drove our cars out the day prior to get thru tech and avoid the hassle the following morning. This was a plus as it also allowed the shakedown from my prep work the weeks before. Leaving the track and heading home I ran into an issue with my TRAC delete option. One of the resistors had an issue and caused the fault which disables the ABS. I didn’t think this was a big issue but come to find out I had no additional resistors to resolve the issue before the next morning (I miss Radio Shack).

The following morning, I loaded the car in the trailer and headed to the track with no ABS working. This issue created some uneasy feelings as I hadn’t spent much time running the car ever W/O ABS. Speaking with other drivers and instructors gave me some assurance that I shouldn’t get into ABS events on the track when driving it for the first time. Over the next two days I had (8) 20min opportunities to track the car around this venue along with download session after each the lead instructor. My assigned instructor, Alan, had been HPDEing for couple of decades and ironically brought his 93’ Rx7 TT he had been tracking for years to run in between instructor led sessions. I was assigned to Group 4 with my buddy since it was both of our 1st times to be on the track.

494 by Douglas Pelsor, on Flickr
474 by Douglas Pelsor, on Flickr
PCA_MID_OHIO_TURN_BY_TURN_V8_01_29_18_2 by Douglas Pelsor, on Flickr

I was quite familiar with the layout of Mid-Ohio since I visited the track during past IRL, IMSA and ALS events so I eased into each of the Saturday sessions to build my confidence and define reference marks around the track as instructed. The back half of the track is where my comfort level came in the soonest between “Thunder Valley” and the “Carousel”. From there, I started to focus on turn 1-3 before the “Keyhole”. My confidence and ability to go thru these turns repeatedlyresulted in my lap time improvements. I will have to say it was a real eye opener for the first time being out in 500+ RWHP car. The car clearly had way more power than I was comfortable to apply in the turns and straightaways. I can’t say how slow I was in the beginning, but I improved significantly in my eyes by the end of day 1.

492 by Douglas Pelsor, on Flickr



491 by Douglas Pelsor, on Flickr

Day 2 took off where Day 1 ended literally since Group 4 was now going 1st on Day 2. I didn’t take the time to address the ABS issue overnight and chose to just drive it without due to my comfort level from the day before. I took it easy in the 1st session since we were the first group to run and the track was not up to temperature. I was also forewarned about the candy stripes being slick as well, so this added to the idea of not pushing till later sessions.

The 2nd session I experienced a vibration in the turns as I thought it was tire rolling as a result of low air pressure or just the marbles that accumulated from getting offline. I came into the pits and checked the car but didn’t find anything. I chose not to chance it so took the car back to my working area and begun to check it more in-depth. Upon further inspection one of the driver’s fender liner fasteners at the top of the fender contacted the tire most likely from turn 7 hitting the candy stripe. I did hear some wheel scrubbing the fender liners in sessions on the day prior but was uncertain if there was any key damage.

478 by Douglas Pelsor, on Flickr 477 by Douglas Pelsor, on Flickr

59313497605__616E752A-2DDB-4BB5-9E73-AEBC1289C23C.JPG by Douglas Pelsor, on Flickr

After lapping my car for numerous miles (100+) in the past 1.5 days I asked the instructor if I could ride with another experienced party such as himself. Due to a disconnect in safely equipment he was unable to take me for a ride in his Rx7 however, he did have a friend he suggested I could ride with. So, my instructor asks me to go over to garage 7 and talk to the driver. Upon my arrival I was greeted with this beast of a track car I was about to go for a ride in. A 2018 GT2RS Weissach model…

484 by Douglas Pelsor, on Flickr
485 by Douglas Pelsor, on Flickr
486 by Douglas Pelsor, on Flickr
This car was unreal around the track and really show me the appreciation of the PDK trans. The driver had been doing HPDEs for the last 30 years and clearly didn’t buy this car to “save it”. He drove this to the track and ran it hard lap after lap.

The 3rd session I began to push it on the back stretch up to 120mph before turn 6. This was an area that I knew I had the power and braking but my comfort level when to start braking was way too early (400-500 ft pre turn) to get it down to ~ 60MPH before going into banked right hander. The 4th session had some more changes… The instructor who I was supposed to be assigned to originally had the chance to finally ride with me. Much of the learnings from the prior instructor were in line with his view except a couple suggestions with “Thunder Valley” and the “keyhole”. In the final laps of this session I up the aggressiveness especially with my speed on the back stretch (130mph) and adjusted my entry point/exit point in turn 7. The result was even more than rewarding in relation to Day 1 success of 1:59.

493 by Douglas Pelsor, on Flickr
488 by Douglas Pelsor, on Flickr


There were various techniques I learned that somewhat seem to be counter intuitive. The biggest reference that stuck with me each in every turn was simple one… Imagine your car is filled 1/2 way with water... Minimize the water (weight) shifting to optimize traction.

The car performed flawlessly but did prompt me to at least investigate corner balancing as well as raising the front end to allow for more suspension travel. I'm also going to investigate adding Do-luck floor bars and finally put my OS Giken LSD in the car in order to prepare for a spring HPDE. Temperatures and Pressure stayed in line throughout the event except for the notorious heavy braking/oil sloshing that drops the oil pressure for a split second. I saw this occur a few times in certain sessions that I was braking hard coming into a turn. Adding a baffle to the oil pan appears to be the fix so I’ll need to look into that as well.

Overall, this opportunity truly set the stage and opened the wallet to do this activity more year over year. As precious as the supra is, I've started to look at other toys to add and address this "fun" to increase my abilities without sacrificing the supra (Supra is not going anywhere!).

479 by Douglas Pelsor, on Flickr

480 by Douglas Pelsor, on Flickr
 

·
Master Shit Fixer
Joined
·
3,180 Posts
As so it begins. Your first hit of the track pipe seems to have had the usual effect...you're hooked now.

As you attend more and more of these, don't be surprised if your instructors give you different or conflicting advice. There are 2 reasons for this: (1) instructors take different approaches, and (2) the techniques and timing we teach for novices is completely different that what we teach for intermediate or advanced students.

Your build details look good for track driving. I do have 3 pieces of advice for you:

cross drilled rotors
When they wear out, ditch them for solid rotors. Why? Three reasons. (1) Road course driving heat cycles your rotors a lot. Guess where cracks start in cross-drilled rotors -- the holes. (2) The purpose of cross-drilled rotors is to let brake pad gasses escape. This is only necessary if your pads require it. Most don't. (3) Braking effectiveness and endurance come from mass. When in doubt, increase mass. The holes reduce the mass of a solid disc.

MoTeC M1 traction controlled not enabled
Enable it. It might save your car some day. If it has different levels of intrusion, feel free to gradually reduce the setting. When you get better/faster and are driving at the limit of tire adhesion, and you give it just a little too much gas one day, you'll lose traction and won't get it back without a fast-acting traction control doing it for you. If you're driving correctly, the traction control won't kick in anyway.

Gloc brake pads GP10 Front and GP8 rear
Consider using the same compound both front and rear. The Supra's proportioning valve has already been engineered to compensate for front bias. You don't need to do it with compound also. I run Carbotech XP10s both front and rear.

You'll obviously want to get your ABS working again. Flat spotting a track tire or two would be annoyingly expensive.

Stay safe, have fun, keep learning. Keep your eyes up. Enjoy being the only Supra on the track.
 

·
Boost Junkie
Joined
·
12,385 Posts
Very cool, Dough. Thanks for sharing.

Steve
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
10,212 Posts

·
Very Senior Member
Joined
·
9,964 Posts
This is the most fun you can have with any car! Tracking a MKIV is icing on the cake.
You got some great advice from bitshftr that I totally agree with.
Work on the driving more than the car. As long as your car is safe, learn the ins and outs of negotiating the track before trying to set track records.
Do not hesitate to have an instructor or other experienced driver ride with you. Ask for ride-alongs with them, as well.
Even after I felt fairly proficient at a track, I could nearly always learn something else or fine tune something by having an experienced driver in my car, or me in theirs.
GL and have fun!
 

·
Master Shit Fixer
Joined
·
3,180 Posts
Good advice from Silver Supra as well, especially (paraphrasing) "spend money on the nut behind the wheel first".

This is the most fun you can have with any car!
Correction: This is the most fun you can have with your clothes on.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
924 Posts
Stay safe, have fun, keep learning. Keep your eyes up. Enjoy being the only Supra on the track.
At our local autocross events we've had four different Supras run, a few events more than one on the same day. However, the Utah events we go to in between ours, I've never seen a Supra I didn't bring. Shame, these cars are pretty fantastic when setup right.

Suprafied, you're gonna enjoy that OS Giken diff. I have one in my 87, and where the stock diff made for some hairy slides (more so the recovery of the slide), the OSG diff makes the car MUCH more controlled when the rear steps out. Also, welcome to the addiction.
 

·
Master Shit Fixer
Joined
·
3,180 Posts
Enjoy being the only Supra on the track.
I was at an HPDE event this past weekend, and someone brought a Zupra. I still maintain I have never seen another Supra at the track. I paddocked within 50 feet of the Zupra, but guess whose car got all the attention ;)
 

·
Inline for the win
Joined
·
4,685 Posts
Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
As so it begins. Your first hit of the track pipe seems to have had the usual effect...you're hooked now.

As you attend more and more of these, don't be surprised if your instructors give you different or conflicting advice. There are 2 reasons for this: (1) instructors take different approaches, and (2) the techniques and timing we teach for novices is completely different that what we teach for intermediate or advanced students.

Your build details look good for track driving. I do have 3 pieces of advice for you:


When they wear out, ditch them for solid rotors. Why? Three reasons. (1) Road course driving heat cycles your rotors a lot. Guess where cracks start in cross-drilled rotors -- the holes. (2) The purpose of cross-drilled rotors is to let brake pad gasses escape. This is only necessary if your pads require it. Most don't. (3) Braking effectiveness and endurance come from mass. When in doubt, increase mass. The holes reduce the mass of a solid disc.


Enable it. It might save your car some day. If it has different levels of intrusion, feel free to gradually reduce the setting. When you get better/faster and are driving at the limit of tire adhesion, and you give it just a little too much gas one day, you'll lose traction and won't get it back without a fast-acting traction control doing it for you. If you're driving correctly, the traction control won't kick in anyway.


Consider using the same compound both front and rear. The Supra's proportioning valve has already been engineered to compensate for front bias. You don't need to do it with compound also. I run Carbotech XP10s both front and rear.

You'll obviously want to get your ABS working again. Flat spotting a track tire or two would be annoyingly expensive.

Stay safe, have fun, keep learning. Keep your eyes up. Enjoy being the only Supra on the track.
Thanks for the feedback. I plan to move the rotors to either 2-piece or find solid/slotted blanks. Finding 1-piece solid rotors are a bit of a challenge since ISF rotors were cross-drilled from the factory. RCF/GSF rear rotors can be used in place of the ISF rears but they are still slotted. A couple companies do offer slotted variants but I've yet to find a solid rotor.

Traction control was disabled as it wasn't fine tuned correctly at the time. I need to spend time more time to adjust this feature to manage the wheel spin/power delivery correctly.

Pad wise, I chose the different compounds to help offset the bias with using this brake setup. This setup has a little more rear bias than factory turbo brakes.

I'm looking forward to 2020 to run it again at Mid-ohio at least and possibly a couple other tracks (NCM, Putnam, VIR or Road Atlanta).




DP
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
202 Posts
Great write up and glad you had a good experience.

Putnam is a great beginner course that I still enjoy. Good for driver training even up to higher levels and most of the track is fairly safe.

NCM has quite a few turns and honestly doesn’t ”flow” well the first time you go out there. As such it can be a bit overwhelming for someone newer which can lead to bad results (read walls). I’d recommend either taking it fairly easy your first time there and possibly getting another day under your belt.

Road Atlanta is a great track, definitely bucket list for an enthusiast. However it also has the probably the highest car count for eating cars. Another one to mind yourself. But it does have good flow in my opinion. On a plus, it’s a popular track and is featured in a lot of gaming systems. Great way to learn the track a little before going in blind (or is it going blind under the bridge?)

VIR is another awesome track. Also big, lots of features. But like Road Atlanta, great flow so it feels just right. Plus is generally lots of run off.

You have yourself a good selection, enjoy!
 
1 - 11 of 11 Posts
Top