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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Just got back from the track and had something really strange happen on the last pass. Had made 3 runs and trapped 130-133mph. On my last pass the car seemed to shift o.k but when I shifted into 3rd and 4th it felt like it was slipping really bad. Car revved up but didn't accelerate just like a badly slipping clutch. When I went through the gates I tried to shift into nuetral and could barely push in the clutch in at all or shift out of 4th gear. Trap speed was 108mph at the same boost setting I had just trapped 133mph.
When they handed me my slip, the guy checked under my car and said there was sparks coming out from under it. Some of the guys in the stands told me the same thing. We checked it out and nothing was dragging on the ground, exhaust was fine?
On the way home, it seemed fine again. Didn't seem to be slipping (not sure if I had any sparks). I have the HPF Feramic single disc clutch and only have about 8-9 passes on it with maybe 500 total miles (approximately 600rwhp range).
Any ideas?
Thanks
 

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Epic said:
Just got back from the track and had something really strange happen on the last pass. Had made 3 runs and trapped 130-133mph. On my last pass the car seemed to shift o.k but when I shifted into 3rd and 4th it felt like it was slipping really bad. Car revved up but didn't accelerate just like a badly slipping clutch. When I went through the gates I tried to shift into nuetral and could barely push in the clutch in at all or shift out of 4th gear. Trap speed was 108mph at the same boost setting I had just trapped 133mph.
When they handed me my slip, the guy checked under my car and said there was sparks coming out from under it. Some of the guys in the stands told me the same thing. We checked it out and nothing was dragging on the ground, exhaust was fine?
On the way home, it seemed fine again. Didn't seem to be slipping (not sure if I had any sparks). I have the HPF Feramic single disc clutch and only have about 8-9 passes on it with maybe 500 total miles (approximately 600rwhp range).
Any ideas?
Thanks

The feramic clutch will throw sparks on hard launches. ....My question to you is did you fully break it in? if so how many miles did you put on it....Going by having already 8-9 passes and 500 miles.....you did not fully break it in at all. Should AT LEAST have 500 around town miles....i used to put 500-1000 on mine before i went to track and let it rip. I used to get 40-50 passes out of mine this way with 800ish RWHP. Feramic is a very harsh material and if not broken it..it will slip prematurely. And what was your burnout technique and launch technique? And how much time were in between runs? Feramic you have to be very careful with when doing burnouts period and they do not liked to be ridden out AT ALL, and on hard /slipped launches they dont like it when its slipped way too long. And hot lapping it...is not going to happen with that clutch at all. They have a tendancy to sieze up which it what it sounds like yours did to a point. did not fully sieze but still siezed. If you drive it around after it has cooled down...it will come back to life...but who knows how much life you have taken off that disk...and flywheel. But to answer main question its def clutch throwing sparks ...mine did that as well. And for future if you ever fully sieze it where it wont come out of gear or comes out but wont go in any...shut car off.....put in gear and bump starter and it will break free 90% of time. But short burnouts, no riding out, and very slight slip to more dump method is technique to make it last long and grab with no issues.
 

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Aaron, my HPF Feramic did the same exact thing. I was not able to do a burnout before launching or else it would fuse together on me. So I had to do no burnouts. Like was already stated, its just the clutch throwing the sparks down. Andys clutch ( whatever he has) was doing it tonight as well. I didnt notice yours doing it, but then again I missed your last run. 133 traps is pretty nice though for that boost level! When are yah gonna man up and get a set of CCW drag rims ? :)

Brett
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thanks for the replies,
Silver Bullet: I actually have about 500 miles since the break-in period on the clutch. I probably put 600-700 miles on it before I ever raced it (should have clarified). Definately no hot lapping at Firebird raceway, had to wait at least an hour in between runs thanks to about 800 15 second and slower cars there tonight :rolleyes: I did a very long burnout on this run (line lock) and did ride it out a ways. My previous run the car went sideways pretty bad in 2nd gear and I had to get off the gas so I thought I'd better heat the tires up a little better this time. My previous run I did my burnout IN the waterbox rather than rolling through it because I'm a genius which is probably why it started going sideways in 2nd and 3rd.
Clutch seems o.k. now so I'll keep all this info in mind for the next trip out. Thanks again.
Hey Brett,
Not sure when or if I'll ever get drag rims. Need to learn to drive first ;) Hopefully I'll still be able to do some kind of burnout with this clutch. It's never done this before when I've done burnouts but then again, I've never done a burnout as long as the one I did tonight. The run before was the first time I'd trapped 100+mph in the 1/8th and ran [email protected] having to get off the gas twice. I knew I had done my burnout in the waterbox because there was no smoke so I figured this time I'll make sure I roll waaaay through the box, heat the tires up for a good 10 seconds or so and get that 10 second slip. Sounds like I pretty much did everything wrong.
Pretty frustrating ending the night on that run. Car wouldn't shift, wouldn't accelerate (didn't go sideways though :tongue: ). [email protected] on that last run. Solid.
BTW Brett, I'll think about the CCW drag set-up when you produce a white supra at the track one of these YEARS. ;)
 

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Aaron I have video of your last pass. It does show your clutch slipping with faramic fireballs being spit out everywhere. I would definetly check/retrorque your PP bolts to at least 22 ft lbs. It's possible a couple are backing out and your losing your clamping force. PM me your email address and I'll send you the video. You must have something on the top end when comparing our first time slip. How I ran a 11.47 @ 124 and you ran a 11.60 @ 133 with a better sixty foot. Let me know if you need any help inspecting your clutch. I have had my transmission out at least ten times and have flown to Seattle to do Dr. Mikes and Steve Theodores cars.

Brett, both of us have the Faramic disk with ACT PP. Only difference is I have a custom sprung disk with Fidanza flywheel.
 

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Epic said:
Thanks for the replies,
Silver Bullet: I actually have about 500 miles since the break-in period on the clutch. I probably put 600-700 miles on it before I ever raced it (should have clarified). Definately no hot lapping at Firebird raceway, had to wait at least an hour in between runs thanks to about 800 15 second and slower cars there tonight :rolleyes: I did a very long burnout on this run (line lock) and did ride it out a ways. My previous run the car went sideways pretty bad in 2nd gear and I had to get off the gas so I thought I'd better heat the tires up a little better this time. My previous run I did my burnout IN the waterbox rather than rolling through it because I'm a genius which is probably why it started going sideways in 2nd and 3rd.
Clutch seems o.k. now so I'll keep all this info in mind for the next trip out. Thanks again.
Hey Brett,
Not sure when or if I'll ever get drag rims. Need to learn to drive first ;) Hopefully I'll still be able to do some kind of burnout with this clutch. It's never done this before when I've done burnouts but then again, I've never done a burnout as long as the one I did tonight. The run before was the first time I'd trapped 100+mph in the 1/8th and ran [email protected] having to get off the gas twice. I knew I had done my burnout in the waterbox because there was no smoke so I figured this time I'll make sure I roll waaaay through the box, heat the tires up for a good 10 seconds or so and get that 10 second slip. Sounds like I pretty much did everything wrong.
Pretty frustrating ending the night on that run. Car wouldn't shift, wouldn't accelerate (didn't go sideways though :tongue: ). [email protected] on that last run. Solid.
BTW Brett, I'll think about the CCW drag set-up when you produce a white supra at the track one of these YEARS. ;)


Ok....then you were fine with break in miles. I 99% guarantee you (without seeing car in person to know nothing else caused it of course) that the riding out the burnouts is definitely what caused it to slightly sieze and slip. The heat from that right to a aggresive launch will do it every time ......been there done that a few times :). Just have to do a bunout with linelock and push in clutch before you release line lock that way it will not ride out at all, then pull up a bit and if you think you still may have water on tires...do a very minor dry hop so to speak to test it.... Just drive it around a bit and you will be fine. The feramic has a tendancy to come back to life very well! Nothing to worry about at all. Just now you know what not to do with that clutch. I had feramic 3 times....and got 40-50 passes out of each one.....but you definitely have to pay attention to it quite a bit....to make it last. So i would not worry about it...just drive it around a few hundred miles being easy to let it come back to life.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Hands On said:
Aaron I have video of your last pass. It does show your clutch slipping with faramic fireballs being spit out everywhere. I would definetly check/retrorque your PP bolts to at least 22 ft lbs. It's possible a couple are backing out and your losing your clamping force. PM me your email address and I'll send you the video. You must have something on the top end when comparing our first time slip. How I ran a 11.47 @ 124 and you ran a 11.60 @ 133 with a better sixty foot. Let me know if you need any help inspecting your clutch. I have had my transmission out at least ten times and have flown to Seattle to do Dr. Mikes and Steve Theodores cars.

Brett, both of us have the Faramic disk with ACT PP. Only difference is I have a custom sprung disk with Fidanza flywheel.
Hey Hands, that'd be cool if you could help me out with that. Give me a call 412-3088 and shoot the video also if you can. Send it to [email protected]. Do you have a video of our first run? I think the reason my trap was higher and lower ET with slightly better 60' was because my car was spinning so bad. First time it's ever really done that. Had a couple people tell me they thought I was going to run into you on that pass. Didn't feel like it got quite that out of control but if you have that video I'd like to see it. My car is picking up anywhere from 33-39mph from the 1/8 to the 1/4. It's just that my 1/8 times suck so bad. 25mph headwinds were great too. I'm tempted to just rent the track for a day and practice.
BTW, car looks great, my son has been bugging me since last night to have my car painted blue. Thanks a lot.
Aaron
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Silver Bullet said:
Ok....then you were fine with break in miles. I 99% guarantee you (without seeing car in person to know nothing else caused it of course) that the riding out the burnouts is definitely what caused it to slightly sieze and slip. The heat from that right to a aggresive launch will do it every time ......been there done that a few times :). Just have to do a bunout with linelock and push in clutch before you release line lock that way it will not ride out at all, then pull up a bit and if you think you still may have water on tires...do a very minor dry hop so to speak to test it.... Just drive it around a bit and you will be fine. The feramic has a tendancy to come back to life very well! Nothing to worry about at all. Just now you know what not to do with that clutch. I had feramic 3 times....and got 40-50 passes out of each one.....but you definitely have to pay attention to it quite a bit....to make it last. So i would not worry about it...just drive it around a few hundred miles being easy to let it come back to life.
I'm sure that's what it was now as well. Clutch has never done that before so I had a hard time believing it simply "wore out" from one pass to the next. Like I said, it was fine on the way home so I'll just stop riding out the burnouts and get this thing into the 10's were it belongs. :)
 

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Still working on hotmail and getting size restraints to work. Here is at least a preview.

Click here for video
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Hands On said:
Still working on hotmail and getting size restraints to work. Here is at least a preview.

Click here for video
Looks good. I think I need to get a shift light rather than waiting for the rev limitier to hit before every shift. :rolleyes: Stock twins rpms didn't climb quite as fast. You racing next weekend at the import deal? I'm gonna be out of town, sucks, I'm ready to go back.
 

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Damn Andy..you burn those tires off enough!??!!?! ha :)

Aaron..the real question is will you hit 10s before my car sees firebird? :)

Brett
 

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Hands On- can you use the Feramic disc with a Fidanza?? I thought that was a big no-no, because it fuses very easily. Then again, it sounds like it can fuse to the stock flywheel too. :?
 

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phorcefed00 said:
Hands On- can you use the Feramic disc with a Fidanza?? I thought that was a big no-no, because it fuses very easily. Then again, it sounds like it can fuse to the stock flywheel too. :?
Only thing I have heard is HPF saying the Fidanza can't take the heat and not to use a sprung disk. Well I read all that a little late, but haven't heard of anyone else having any problems. I have only had a problem with the clutch release hub making contact with the spung portion of the disk and wearing down the hub until your snap rings lose the grove and pop off. That was a fun tranny pull the other week for a $25 part. I have since modified my disk in hopes to get some longevity out of the hub. I think the sprung center is an over site by South Bend, but there was a RPS user the same week as me that had just been thru 3 hubs. My recommendation is to stay away from sprung disks.


Aaron, I will give you a call later tonight or tomorrow to plan a time to look at your car. Should only take 20 min to inspect the PP bolts.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Hands On said:
Only thing I have heard is HPF saying the Fidanza can't take the heat and not to use a sprung disk. Well I read all that a little late, but haven't heard of anyone else having any problems. I have only had a problem with the clutch release hub making contact with the spung portion of the disk and wearing down the hub until your snap rings lose the grove and pop off. That was a fun tranny pull the other week for a $25 part. I have since modified my disk in hopes to get some longevity out of the hub. I think the sprung center is an over site by South Bend, but there was a RPS user the same week as me that had just been thru 3 hubs. My recommendation is to stay away from sprung disks.


Aaron, I will give you a call later tonight or tomorrow to plan a time to look at your car. Should only take 20 min to inspect the PP bolts.
Thanks Hans. I'll talk to ya soon.
Aaron
 
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