Supra Forums banner
21 - 37 of 37 Posts

· Super Moderator
Joined
·
14,198 Posts
I asked about TSW because i have a set of 20's on my Genesis and they are clean and no vibrations at all and i paid a good penny for them LOL ...
A decent wheel starts around $400-500 each, so expect at least $1600-$2k a set before tires. Good wheels are $3k-$7k+ a set these days.

Brands to consider:

Enkei (honestly the only budget-ish wheel brand worth buying, they're a gigantic company and that's why they can sell many of their designs as inexpensively as they do)
Rays Engineering brands (Gram Lights, Volk, etc)
Work
Weds Sport
Yokohama (aka Advan Racing or AVS)
SSR
CCW
Fikse
HRE
 

· Registered
Joined
·
2,136 Posts
Agree 100% with the above as far as selection. Work is probably the best option when it comes to cost and easiness of getting the wheels in whatever size you want. HRE have shot up in price, not sure what CCW pricing is now, but they and Fikse have always been pretty expesive in general.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
335 Posts
Did you measure the offset on those wheels,or are you aware of what that is? With wrong offset some cars, car setups, car/wheel/tire combos will make the car vibrate because of how it rides on that bearing and what that does to the entire geometry. Complicated so I wont' explain here, but it's known in racing at least, where throwing off the offset (angle change) will make it either vibrate or simply eat the bearings. I think 100% will disagree with me here,but they spent months in the factory calculating those wheels, tires, offsets, geometry, bearings, etc. Noting is there by accident. Changing wheels tires always affects the ride by lot. I have never driven a car in my life that had better ride quality after changing those parameters.

That would explain the first 5 mile problem you had as roads mostly have something called crown. That's where many alignment problems come out as it affects the car's "dynamic setup". Maybe that road did not have crown for a while (happens) and you were fine for few minutes. Or it could have been bad wheel, but guys that balance it would know right away. They don't need to be perfect to balance them, but tires do need to be in good condition (even).

Or bad wheels. I would not rule that out. To me that car was best in stock wheels and unmolested.
 

· Super Moderator
Joined
·
14,198 Posts
Did you measure the offset on those wheels,or are you aware of what that is? With wrong offset some cars, car setups, car/wheel/tire combos will make the car vibrate because of how it rides on that bearing and what that does to the entire geometry. Complicated so I wont' explain here, but it's known in racing at least, where throwing off the offset (angle change) will make it either vibrate or simply eat the bearings. I think 100% will disagree with me here,but they spent months in the factory calculating those wheels, tires, offsets, geometry, bearings, etc. Noting is there by accident. Changing wheels tires always affects the ride by lot. I have never driven a car in my life that had better ride quality after changing those parameters.

That would explain the first 5 mile problem you had as roads mostly have something called crown. That's where many alignment problems come out as it affects the car's "dynamic setup". Maybe that road did not have crown for a while (happens) and you were fine for few minutes. Or it could have been bad wheel, but guys that balance it would know right away. They don't need to be perfect to balance them, but tires do need to be in good condition (even).

Or bad wheels. I would not rule that out. To me that car was best in stock wheels and unmolested.
I highly doubt that's what is happening in the OP's case, given what we already know about the JNC wheels he bought, and the obvious runout damage on one of them from the vid he posted.

But fundamentally you're 100% correct here.
In my experience, the biggest factors there really are the weight of the installed wheels and how much offset was changed from the stock values.

Offset could be explained as being the load centerline of a given wheel/tire combo, so even when changing wheel size and width radically, the less deviance from the stock offsets, the better for ride quality and OE-like characteristics. When installing wheels of much lower offset, you're also changing the 'leverage' the wheel/tire combo has on the suspension assembly in that corner, by moving the moment out further from the control arm. So that means a given 'bump' in the road experienced by that wheel will push around the suspension a lot more easily -same as using a longer prybar makes it easier to pry something open- which in turn overpowers the spring and shock much more readily in addition to adding wear/tear on bushings/balljoints etc. The bigger the change in offset, the more 'leverage' you're adding to the suspension.

Similarly, installing a heavier wheel and tire combo will add inertia and more force to every part of the stock suspension, which affects ride quality and suspension performance in a similar way. The opposite is also true, in that going to a lighter wheel and tire combo often improves ride quality as well as suspension performance and steering feel, and a lot of OE wheels are heavy as hell so there's often plenty of room to improve there.

Some cars are more susceptible to the wheel bearing damage and other issues caused by going crazy with offset changes. Subarus in particular tend to eat wheel bearings if you're going much lower than +40 offsets in any given wheel and especially if you're adding larger & heavier wheels and adding more camber.
Toyotas IME tend to be much more resistant to this and while JZA80's are needing wheel bearings now that they're so much older, I haven't seen a JZA80 or similar vintage Lexus that had wheel bearing damage or wear that seemed to be accelerated significantly by wheel or suspension changes.

FWIW, the nicest riding Supra I've ever experienced had a long-discontinued 17in Brembo F40 BBK up front (dropped close to 10lbs a corner vs the stock front brakes) 17in TE37's wearing Michelin Pilot Sport tires, and KW Variant 3 coilovers.
Light wheels, lighter brakes, and a top shelf coilover and tire choice. That's a fundamental recipe for success in improving all aspects of suspension performance.
 
  • Love
Reactions: Mr Ree NZ

· Registered
Joined
·
15 Posts
Discussion Starter · #25 ·
Did you measure the offset on those wheels,or are you aware of what that is? With wrong offset some cars, car setups, car/wheel/tire combos will make the car vibrate because of how it rides on that bearing and what that does to the entire geometry. Complicated so I wont' explain here, but it's known in racing at least, where throwing off the offset (angle change) will make it either vibrate or simply eat the bearings. I think 100% will disagree with me here,but they spent months in the factory calculating those wheels, tires, offsets, geometry, bearings, etc. Noting is there by accident. Changing wheels tires always affects the ride by lot. I have never driven a car in my life that had better ride quality after changing those parameters.

That would explain the first 5 mile problem you had as roads mostly have something called crown. That's where many alignment problems come out as it affects the car's "dynamic setup". Maybe that road did not have crown for a while (happens) and you were fine for few minutes. Or it could have been bad wheel, but guys that balance it would know right away. They don't need to be perfect to balance them, but tires do need to be in good condition (even).

Or bad wheels. I would not rule that out. To me that car was best in stock wheels and unmolested.
Of the dozen cars i have owned with the dozen aftermarket wheels i have pruchased with the dozen different offsets and spacers i have put on these cars, i have never ran into a vibration problem from wrong offset.
And as i said before, on some roads the 55 mph vibration is not there but it IS there around 65 mph just not as bad where other roads the 55 mph vibration IS there and its worse at 65 mph ... So depending on the road the vibration can be slight to HARSH all after they balanced them on the Road force machine.
Before the road force machine, i had vibration at 55 and 65 on EVERY ROAD ...
And as the guy told me that he did have vibration on them at 1st and it was pretty bad and they pulled the tire off to mount them in a different spot then balanced them to be below a specific # that would remove most of the off balance issue it had. He told me that most of it would be gone but it might still be there.
He was right, most of it was gone but it was still there depending on the road.
I literally just went on a 20 mile drive on an empty "clean" road and i had NO vibration at 55 mph but slight vibration at 65 mph ... Then just 6 miles further down the road, it started to shake at 55 mph and was worse at 65 mph ...
And as i said before, while in Drive and just moving at idle speed, i can feel a lump on the front end as if i had a tire bubble or warped wheel .. which i confirmed with the screw driver YET all 5 shops say my wheels were fine and not bent or warped ... And i think to myself, are you blind? Can you not comprehend when i tell you that i don't have wheel vibration AT ALL with the stock wheels ..... But i DO with these ??? And you want to tell me that my suspension is bad ??
 

· Registered
Joined
·
2,136 Posts
Cut your losses guy, they don't care about your cheap bent rim. It's clearly bent, and it's clear they don't care. Lesson learned. I've spent a far amount more for lessons, it is what it is.
 

· From the land down under
Joined
·
5,666 Posts
Definitely do as suggested and get some quality wheels on your stunning new car.

And also do what was suggested earlier and post up your videos showing the poor quality of their wheels all over social media and tag them into it....if companies are going to treat their customers with such disdain, then they deserve all the bad publicity you can give them.

Looking forward to seeing photos of your car wearing some new quality shoes :)
 

· Registered
Joined
·
1 Posts
I picked up my Work wheels at Evasive Motorsports. I shopped the hell out of websites, and they were the best for price plus shipping at the time. They sell the brands we want for MKIV. I recommend you starting somewhere like that, or going to our vendor section and seeing reviews and recommendations of other companies we have already vetted here. Best of luck, one's taste in wheels is really what set all of us apart.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
15 Posts
Discussion Starter · #33 ·
Has the OP figured out the issue?
Figured out the issue, yes a bad wheel that not a single tire shop can see nor will fix because they can't see anything wrong with it.
I took it to another tire shop, jacked up 1 tire and spun it, he SAW the wobble to it, then tells me that he wants to take it off and throw it on his machine, he does, and comes back and says, its fine, something is wrong with your car .... OMFG here we go again.

So while i have not decided which route to go, either back to stock wheels with 245's up front and 285's in the rear with maybe a spacer in the rear to push the tire out a bit ...
OR
sell these wheels and start over with a different brand / new set ...

I don't have any vibration with the stock wheels and tires so i KNOW its not the car.
Some roads i have little to NO vibration and other roads the front end wants to tear apart ...
 

· Registered
Joined
·
15 Posts
Discussion Starter · #34 ·
I picked up my Work wheels at Evasive Motorsports. I shopped the hell out of websites, and they were the best for price plus shipping at the time. They sell the brands we want for MKIV. I recommend you starting somewhere like that, or going to our vendor section and seeing reviews and recommendations of other companies we have already vetted here. Best of luck, one's taste in wheels is really what set all of us apart.
Man i am torn here really. I like these wheels but the vibration is killing me. Some roads the vibration is little to none while other roads the front end wants to tear apart.
I really don't know which way to go at this point. Back to stock wheels with 245's in front and 285's in rear OR sell these and start fresh with another brand.
I drove this Supra with stock wheels for over a year after i got it and while it was fun it got old. I mean driving a 25 yr old car with its original wheels does have that cool factor too ... But at the same time, rolling with 10 inch wheels in the back with 305's ..... Gives that "yea thats a 1000 hp Supra alright" ... LOL
 

· Registered
Joined
·
27 Posts
as a longtime high end wheel and tire installation tech, I can almost certainly guarantee that OP's wheels were probably installed with minimal bead lube and just static balanced; especially going to a big 10 tires, lazy asses...
I'm doubtful they were ever indexed when they road force balanced them, too.

my procedure when installing aftermarket wheels and tires is to lube the bead generously with the butter/wax-like tire lube and the same with the tire; mount tire onto wheel in the proper orientation, taking care to center the "DOT#" with the valve stem. seat the bead and air up to past 60 psi for a few minutes, setup balancer and adjust pressure before road-force balancing.
I personally first balance the facial plane of the wheel, re-spin then balance the back, readjust air pressure to final doorjamb recommendation, re-roadforce balance, notate final r/f number then place in suggested position with the lower r/f numbers recommended in the front, with the bias towards the wheel with the least amount of physical weight if r/f numbers are identical.
if road force numbers are unacceptable, follow the machine's positioning suggestion marked in crayon to bring to spec.
to do THAT the tire needs to be indexed on the wheel.
a top of the line balancer machine will show you where to position the tire in relation to the wheel in order to lower the resulting road force number. to aid in that, the complete DOT number should be facing outwardly, per "industry standard" unless directional or asymmetric tread design.
when indexing , the tire is deflated, he beads are broken down and then the tire is held in place(by hands or machinery )while the wheel is then spun to its recommended positioning according to the marks made at the "failed road-force measurement".
it's a PITA sometimes, but not everyone takes pride in their work like I do.

I'd suggest you take it to whoever does the Lexus and Mercedes wheels in your area. -good tip, at the local car show, ask the lambo/rolls royce folks where they get their wheels and tires done...
bottom line, seems like a bunch of clowns in your area, sadly.
if ever in Georgia ,check out Butler tire and wheels; we do all kinds of celebrity cars n trucks at multiple locations in all the best neighborhoods, like fr...
 

· Registered
Joined
·
15 Posts
Discussion Starter · #36 ·
if ever in Georgia ,check out Butler tire and wheels; we do all kinds of celebrity cars n trucks at multiple locations in all the best neighborhoods, like fr...
funny thing i was just in Savannah from sat - wed and came back home to fla yesterday. Took a few days vacation for spring break.
I would drive up there but thats too far for a balance that is probably not guaranteed to fix the vibration.

Also i am 100% sure that most of those tire places have guys that really don't give a shit and just do the balance and move on to the next car. The last place did use that road force balance machine and while they said there was a significant amount of vibration, due to the "tire" and not a bent wheel, they mounted it in the best location to avoid the most vibration. The guy did tell me that they try to get a final # below X and they did, he said it would not remove all the vibration but it did take off a lot of it and it did but that also depends on the road as well.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
5,840 Posts
if you really like the wheels are you able just to replace one of the wheels?
 
21 - 37 of 37 Posts
Top