[BlackSupra93]

hey...my families main two cars are our NA 93.5 supra auto and our Toyota avalon...and i swear the avalon(WITH ONLY 200HP) is just as fast as the na supra...anythoughts? even after an air intake which probly got the supra to 230 Bhp...its still close...will the supra brake away above 60? any input? avalon & supra owners out there lemme hear ya!

 

[TRDSupraSE]

bhp? is that the same as rwhp?

 

[TheSUPE87]

buddy- hate to break it to ya, but there's no freakin way your intake is giving you 30 hp... trust me. Try like 5 or 10 at the most, but even that's stretching it. The avalon is front wheel drive, and I think front wheel drive loses less power from the engine to the drivetrain, it might be a little quicker, but if you raced, the supra would be pullin once you hit 40, more top end power i would think
do it! Race the CARS youll find out, then tell us!!

 

[BlackSupra93]

hey,
i think we have a misunderstanding here... im talkin in BHP here...stock NA's(mkiv) have 220....dont they? unless toyotas overrated their BHP..which i doubt they'd do....but i added 10 BHP to the 220 BHP to get my estimate of 230(for the intake). my itake is for the turbo MkIII and rated at 14 bhp and i was given an estimate of 8 or 9 of those for the non turbo MKIv. so thats where the 230 came from. the avalon has 200 BHP FWD and is mighty quick...i can feel the lack of top slightly tho. id actualy love to find an after market part or two for that and add some lowering spring...and make it actally handle to keep up with the speed. its a 98 avalon...and looks somewhat sleek from the side profile..nice stock rims... would be fun to mess with. plus i coudl fit ALL my friends in it and its covered in leather and fake wood
i would love to race em, but that would require one of my friends driving one of em..cuz my dad surely woudlnt go for that and i really dont want my friends driving it...not very responsible. if i do ill let u guys know tho.
SIDENOTE. my friend has a 185 hp 210 tq pont grand am gt. falls short in quality in my opinion, but quick none the less.. ive never lined up with him but we drive around alot and he is always right with me. my question is why? his car isnt much lighter...and its a 35 BHP difference...our cars have the same amt of torque...is this allowing him to keep up with me at speeds below 60? i know torque matters more initially and then HP takes over for higher speeds and rev's.

 

[BlackSupra93]

BHP= back horse power...or horsepower at the crank
RWHP= rear wheel horsepower and is what is left after the drivetrain sucks power away from your car..usually 15% less than your BHP. example..supras BHP= 220...somethign like 175-183 make it to the wheels...i didnt calc. that tho..its an estimate.

 

[TheSUPE87]

im sorry to come off as such a jerk, i thought it was an mk3! i been in the mk3 forum too long...hehe

 

[BlackSupra93]

no problem,
that kinda stuff does happen....plus i did put 93.5 which is the switchover year...but some people only see the 93 part. haha you should see the looks i get when i tell people my cars an ninety three and a half . so no which do u think would win ? you come up and ill let you race me! just playin, but boy it would be fun...

 

[ThomsonCharm]

If your Supra was a Manual and your Avalon is an Automatic *dont know if they came in Manual*, the Supra would win do to less Drivetrain loss from the manual transmission and more control over the acceleration. Powershifting rocks better have the clutch for it though. However with the auto transmission the gap gets closer and its hard to say but you should have a better top end. Much more potential power there too gotta love the engines that can handle So much boost without rebuilding them , Iron Blocks rule for that.
Later

 

[Yonaga]

I was taught BHP was Brake Horse Power. The engine is attached to an ergometer which in its simple form is a wheel with an adjustable brake; the engine has to overcome a certain amount of braking force which is applied to the wheel by a simple lever with a given amount of weight on the other end. The maximum force the engine can overcome is its Brake Horse Power. Quite different from RWHP, which includes driving the tranny, shaft, differential and wheels.

 

[DuCeY DuCe]

i was reading bout NA supras and most of the dyno around 150-160 horsepower...makes you think how much they overrate the horsepower ratings for other cars...highest i seen in an NA was 169 and i have seen at least 35 dyno sheets

 

[Yonaga]

2c2c:

Losing 25HP to the drive train is about right. That's why a lightweight flywheel and driveshaft can make a big difference, or why front-wheel drive cars can put more HP on the road.

 

[vreaux728645]

Yes, bhp = brake horsepower, a calibrated magnetic load with which to measure power @ the crankshaft.
Don't forget the benefit of lightweight wheels too!

 

[supra4life]

avalon is lighter

Weight is a big factor here, keep in mind that the avalon is 200 to 300 lbs lighter then the mk3 turbo. This is probably why both car pull about the same but mk3 will probably be a bit faster over 50 mph.

http://reports.intellichoice.com/reports/sponsors/WPOST/frameset.asp?SPON=wpost&DEFSPON=CV&PROD=&REPORT=256004&P1=0&TRID=&YEAR=2002&MAKE=Toyota&MODEL=Avalon&rv=yes

 

[Yonaga]

vreaux728645,

Wheels, and tires too. I wonder when someone will come up with an inner-tube that can hold helium for more than one day. Also reduces the unsprung weight, which will help handling.

P.S. Happy New Year to all!

 

[BlackSupra93]

Results

well hey everyone
i didnt exactly race the two but i have come to a conclusion. i take the same route back from my lady's house and theres a kinda straight area. a stop sign, then over a small brindge across a tiny stream and slightly uphill...but other than that its straight.
so i was in the avalon the other night and i was like oh what the h*ll....and i went for it. didnt burn out got off w/out spinning tires at all and then completely floor it.
i did the same thing in the supra today, and to give an estimate...i got to 60 about 30-45 feet sooner in the supra. my supra has an air intake in it and thats it.....rev's real nice to about 6200 rpms..where it shifts, because its an auto and doesnt like to redliine itsself. so just to clear that up. supra is quick..by a few feet...but that gap would continue to increase as the speed does...so supra is victorious again.
later
Bob

 

[vreaux728645]

Inner tubes Yonaga? Do they make them to fit 50, 45, 40 series tires? No tubes in my high performance car please!

 

[Yonaga]

vreaux728645

Only to keep the helium in. I know they aren't going to make tires that can do it.