Supra Forums banner
1 - 20 of 66 Posts

·
Hardtop >
Joined
·
1,210 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
So I was thinking about this the other day, but almost every Supra you see posted on social media or in videos etc seems to be built with a single turbo, stand-alone ecu, fuel system etc. It got me thinking to when I first bought mine in 05 when most Supras were stock twins with bpu mods and using the “secret sauce” mods to try to max out the stockers. Some were achieving the first stock twin cars in the 10’s etc. then all of a sudden that stopped and everyone just slapped a precision turbo on their cars (me included lol). Granted a lot had to do with turbo tech progression and billet wheels etc, but it also just felt like the thing to do if you owned a Supra. Almost like you had no choice haha.

Latey I have been rethinking the direction of my car, and maybe I’m just reminiscing of those days when mods were just simple bolt ons and 400rwhp was good enough. But I have given serious thought to installing a set of rebuilt/upgraded twins, go back to stock ecu and fuel and just enjoy an oem+ type build. I was curious if any others have had the same thoughts and either stayed on the stock twins this whole time, or have been single and gone back to twins? Maybe I’m going crazy lol, or maybe I’m just losing my passion for an extensively modified car. There was something about the stock twins and their simplicity that I think I miss. Anyone else out there feel the same, or just me haha?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
647 Posts
I just got rid of mine a few months ago and i miss the torque between 2-4k, especially after i shimmed the back turbo to make 12-13 psi before the transition.

With all the fun of a BPU car is, cars are just too fast these days to keep up with BPU alone.

If i was going to go through the hassle of reinstalling the factory turbos, i would 100% do the STU gt28s, standalone, e85 and try to make it look as oem as possible while having 500-700 horsepower on tap... I would then play the "its all stock" game and gap unsuspecting fools :D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
184 Posts
Well, when I purchased my car it was already on a single. Buuuut I have often thought about doing the same thing. However, It would pain me to undo everything that I have already done (and redone) not to mention the cost associated with all of the parts that would need to be sourced. I guess at this point I would look for a higher mileage, stock example and rock that instead. That monkey that itches for HP is still very much there and I think I would miss all of the power for sure.
What's better than owning one Supra? That's right, owning two Supras.
 

·
Highway Demon
Joined
·
2,901 Posts
I still have the stock twins in my car and did loads of things other then going single. I have had the car for 22yrs now and don't regret it at all. Out of all the supra guys locally my car has been down the least of everyone, except that one time I was waiting on wheels from japan and prematurely sold the wheels off my car. Mechanically speaking my car was simple and reliable. My perspective and philosophy when I worked on my supra was to build something well rounded and focus more on the response and handling. When it came to the subject of the turbos honestly speaking it was a budget thing that kept me from going single but I also felt it was a shame to replace perfectly fine working turbos. I was determined to keep the stock twins until they blew before I'd go single and they are still going strong. I don't drive the car regularly as much anymore but that's more due to personal annoyances and convenience issues I have, not the car itself.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,093 Posts
I'm in the process now of going single. Ran with stock twins for 27 years on BPU, pulled a 402HP on the dyno back in the day with and Apexi AVCR, SAFC, 3" downpipe/midpipe/exhaust.

Just not enough - thought about keeping it stock(ish) but then who's the car for ? Me, now, or the next guy to own it ? I voted me 😎

Twins are off, new FSR Street Fighter kit was fitted to get exhaust tweaked to fit. Just got intake side off this weekend - it's filthy underneath the manifolds.
Motor vehicle Automotive tire Auto part Gas Composite material
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
317 Posts
I'm still rocking stock twins, BPU. It is frustrating to see Camry and Civics keeping up with me. Just because people see my FMIC and Tanabe exhaust, they expect a 1,000 HP Supra.

The issue with staying this way is replacement parts. Ageing VSVs, actuators, and ECUs make it difficult to maintain the OEM twin system. Stuff just wears out... not to mention these cars are 20+ years old.

My philosophy has been "OEM+", so if there is a way to maintain OEM reliability and drivability, with MO' POWA, that's what I try to do.
 

·
Highway Demon
Joined
·
2,901 Posts
BTW I last dyno'd roughly around 450whp with BPU mods, FMIC, vpc/gcc, 264 cams, TTC, Butterfly removed from both the sequential system and TB, Secret sauce spring on the WG actuator, SBC-id with boost set to 18psi. I honestly believe simplifying the system with a small single and not chasing down the rabbit hole with high numbers will make most supra owners happier in the long run. Less issues and more reliability. My power goals when the time comes is a measly 550whp on pump. The practicality of that power level in regards to reliability, drivability, and the capability of most tires being able to hold that power is why I believe its a more balanced happy medium.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,946 Posts
BTW I last dyno'd roughly around 450whp with BPU mods, FMIC, vpc/gcc, 264 cams, TTC, Butterfly removed from both the sequential system and TB, Secret sauce spring on the WG actuator, SBC-id with boost set to 18psi. I honestly believe simplifying the system with a small single and not chasing down the rabbit hole with high numbers will make most supra owners happier in the long run. Less issues and more reliability. My power goals when the time comes is a measly 550whp on pump. The practicality of that power level in regards to reliability, drivability, and the capability of most tires being able to hold that power is why I believe its a more balanced happy medium.
i agree. i love the way the seq setup drives which is why i want to do the STU twins. small single would probably be ideal but this was the goal so i'm gonna see it through. just enough power to to have a great time.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
317 Posts
I'm with you on this, guys. My last dyno (18 years ago) was 350 WHP, 350 lb-fts on sequential BPU twins.

For me: 550-ish WHP, pump gas, 300 lb-fts by 3K RPM, with stock reliability. DONE! Drive every day.

So, that's STU twins, or cast manifold with small single... maybe even a T3 housing and the stock MAF in place.

Waiting for all updates on the FSR install @Halfwalker.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
43 Posts
Hmmmm I'm single turboed but I know if I go twin I will just miss the power and want to go back to Single lol
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
200 Posts
I’m just over a year of ownership, still bone stock. Wish I knew about @Stu Hagen upgraded turbo’s a year ago, went through and replaced gaskets, pumps, Turbo’s we’re serviced/repaired. I’d love to have more HP. Time to start saving to get Stu’s upgrade before he stops doing it.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
10,905 Posts
I'm fortunate, or unfortunate depending on one's point of view, to have three MKIVs, all original six-speeds, with two being APU cars and one being BPU. I will say that, for me, once you've tasted the power of a well sorted, well tuned APU car, there is no going back. My APU cars have proven to be every bit as reliable as my BPU car.

Now, there is a certain "all is right with the world" sensation when driving my BPU anthracite hard top, because it's not very loud in the MKIV Supra scheme of things, has a wonderful burble with the Tanabe downpipe working in concert with my HKS Carbon Ti and the OEM clutch with the C's short shifter makes it a joy to cruise and just trundle around.

With the APU cars, as fun and fulfilling as they are, I have to be more alert and more vigilant regarding law enforcement types, knowing if I don't strictly adhere to all traffic rules, and assuming I'm not stopped for a loud exhaust, any excuse for pulling me over will do.

Still, once you head butt the horizon with an APU car, there is nothing else that gathers speed quite like a 2JZ-GTE, even if there are quicker and faster cars (very) occasionally around. Now that there are Mustangs and Camaros with very loud OEM exhausts, and a good number of these cars with incredibly loud aftermarket exhausts, it seems to me Supras may be falling under the loud exhaust radar and are noticed more for their increasing collectibility, one can only hope.

Notwithstanding all of the above, @95jza80tt has the right formula with a well balanced 550 whp, maybe the closest thing to having our cake and eating it too.


Ken.
 

·
Senior Member
Joined
·
620 Posts
I've been BPU for close to 20 years and on STU twins 7 of them. While the power levels are not much by today's standards it puts a smile on my face more than any car I've ever owned. My car has never been down and is always up for a cruise. Being in CA I can't really max them out but should I ever leave I would definitely do a stand alone and fuel system and see what she can do.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,202 Posts
I’ve been stock twins for first 10-15 years ownership from when my father owned it. Then bpu with cats for the next 10+ years. I maxed it out as much as I could with stock ecu, Emanage blue, manual/electronic boost controller, and eventually meth/water injection. Every step of the way I was enjoying the car as each mod transformed the car in its own ways and solving the obstacles. Up the boost, need fuel control. Got fuel control, need more octane. Got octane, up more boost! blew my stock twins after 154k miles and 25 years later, decided to up the turbos to the more thermal efficient stu twins to relieve the engine and turbos of excess heat.

here I am full stu twins hks264 and custom exhaust manifold and all, Im starting all over again with tuning and coming up with innovative ways to push the sequential twins to new heights! I think that’s the joy I get out of this car the most.

Coming up with the original ebv spring mod and getting 13 psi on first turbo was one of my biggest highs. I hope my next mod I’m working on will revolutionize sequential twins once more!
 

·
Hardtop >
Joined
·
1,210 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Love the feedback guys! Great to see
those who are still rocking the stock twins and those with upgraded twins. Perhaps this is something that came with age but I’m starting to appreciate Toyota’s engineering a lot more then I used to.

@KenHenderson I think you hit the nail on the head about my thoughts on apu vs bpu. Your comments are always so insightful so I thank you for sharing them. And having 3 cars with different setups to choose from your feedback is certainly appreciated since you have experience with both setups. I live in Ny and they just passed a bill to increase fines on modified exhaust up to $1000... I think this is just the beginning of the crackdown on modified cars and would not be surprised to see more strict laws enforced over the next few years tbh. Would not surprise me to see smog type testing implemented in most states in the next 5 years or so for all vehicles.

@shenofjo I’ve seen your posts on the stu hybrid thread and noticed your dedication to the stock sequential system. I know most will say it’s too complicated blah blah blah, but there is something to say about that instant torque from 2-4K that you just don’t get from a single. And an appreciation for Toyota’s engineering. Yes most will say just shift down and you’ll be in boost, but I’m not always looking to go balls to the wall wot when I drive my Supra lol. Looking forward to seeing what the next upgrade you come up with on the sequential system is. Is it something with the reed valve and the pre spool/second turbo transition delay?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,202 Posts
it really is owner's choice with this car. ive run ths stock twins for so long but i wanted something slightly different in powerband. Perhaps I got sucked into the hype of pulling all the way to redline, hence i went with the hks 264 and modified custom exhaust manifold. It did not disappoint in terms of the stu twins pulling to redline, but I noticed my torque is lacking to 3k RPM. that stock twin first turbo whistle and around town torque is also gone. I will have to work on this a bit more to see if my sequential system is healthy first but that is my impression. If I really want the best of both world, I know the next step is e85 for the extra exhaust volume and earlier boost AND more power up top. That is until I figure out my current set up and enjoy it some more before then. I would rather you look to buy a BPU than to undo all the APU stuff... unless its not reliable to begin with.

did I mention i passed CA smog with flying colors? visual fail though with my meth injection and RT high flow cat with no carb eo number
 
  • Like
Reactions: Disguised
1 - 20 of 66 Posts
Top