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man i want this so bad! i want to max out my twins, cause not looking to go single 4 a very long time. Cause just rebuilt the turbos on my car.
 

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And what does my name have to do with it :)

Brian
I think he is referring to Bryan of BNR. I had the set pictured on the other thread made by Bryan of BNR.

BTW: The above pictured look very nice too... Any more details on those? Who did the work on them. Send me a PM.
 

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What is going on with the VPC? How long did the install take. Any hurdles you weren't expecting? Thanks.

Brian
Well after installing the vpc the car is running stumbling a bit when I tap the throttle. Is this normal??? This is a used VPC and I just installed the new correct chip for my set up. I'm also throwing a couple codes #14 and #31
#14 Ignition Signal
#31 Mass air flow meter circuit
Ive got all the dial's in the 12'O clock position and its like the box isn't working correctly. I've put the 1.2k resistor in to keep the air temp code from getting thrown on but I'm still having trouble with the unit. When I plug the old maf and disconnect the VPC the codes are off and the car runs normal.
Can you shed any light on this?????

Install on the Stu&Aaron Turbo's took about 10 hours to put everything back together but thats becuse I'm in not major hurry so I wanted to double check everything and installed new gaskets oil lines and everything.. I'm sure it could be done quicker the next time but I wanted to make sure it was perfect!
One hurdle was bolting the inlet compressor tube to the #1 turbo I got a little too much muscle into it and stripped out the stud but luckily there were about 5 more threads at the bottoms. So I was able to take a longer bolt and get it to bite down and tighten back up.
So far so good I've fired it up but just working through the VPC problem and then I'll be ready to tune. So if any one can shed some light on this VPC problem I'll be on the Dyno by next week to give ya'll some results.
2 weeks before the number 1 blew I dyno'd 411 rwhp @ 16.7psi. So I'm looking forward to seeing what it does now.
Thanks
 

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I think he is referring to Bryan of BNR. I had the set pictured on the other thread made by Bryan of BNR.

BTW: The above pictured look very nice too... Any more details on those? Who did the work on them. Send me a PM.
Yes...he is correct. I was referring to "Stu's" hybrids and "BNR Bryan's" hybrids. The spelling was my error...whatever...:)
 

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The GT28RS don't fit it's the GT28R hybrid project we are discussing for the most part. The GT28RS simply have too many plumbing and other issues. Stu has more specifics on this but IIRC he already tried this right after he and Aaron300 (sic) finished the first successful milder hybrids.
Sorry to keep asking these questions, im still trying to catch up with all the info thats been posted, all good reading guys. Just to clarify are the stock twins replaced with the GT28R turbos or is it just the internals that are replaced? And also is it US/UK spec turbos these are used with or can a similar modifications be done with the j-spec turbos??

Cheers

Mikey
 

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^^Internals.....
 

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Hey Stu,

I would also be very interested in either of these setups, since I love the sequential setup, and would prolly never go single.
3 questions though:
- If the GT28R one makes it over beta, will they be available with lines and other misc stuff that fits?
- Will the #1 boost controller also work reliably with the unmodified stock turbo setup?
- Did I understand that right that the hybrids youre using right now are a direct bolt on upgrade that dont need any modifying at all? You do need some sort of piggyback or similar, right?
 

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Wow--things are progressing here.

1) My current set up, which are Aarons hybrids, are a direct bolt up using the oem band clamps. What this means that you dont need to take off much to install these. I think it I took like 4 hours to install them. Biggest pita is the underside oil line and the banjo fitting on the block. Hard to do as a "blind" feel install. Aarons are honed machined compressor housings with a T3 wheel. Thats all. Supporting an additional 50 whp +/-. Also less money.

2) The BNR upgrade uses GT28R "cartridge" Which means larger turbine and larger shaft. This requires an almost complete tear down to install, Since these are entirely new cartidges, the band clamp housing is machined off and totally removed. The new install uses bolts to attach to the exhaust housing (look closer at the pics and you will see) One side note that I was in error about. These GT28R's are NOT ball bearing as I thought. After discussing this more with BNR, he reminded me that he could not install the BB ones because he would bore right thru the housings. Not enough meat for those. The initial set was made well over a year ago, maybe 2, and "hammerhead" was the guy who bought it. It has taken him all this time to get around to installing them and coming up with his own style manifold and oil/water lines.

The 24 sets that I am doing now will most likely have all the water/oil lines premade. I am waiting for Bobby ("hammerhead") to finish everything up here in a week or so to iron out certain fitment issues. We are discussing the manifold issue as well. Maybe have these made. But cart before the horse here. He will be providing dynos, etc. very soon. These should make more power than the ones I am running now. Or at least the same, but capable to boost an additional 4 psi safely due to 33% larger shaft. (Turbo balanced to 180K or 24psi)

I do not intend to be the overall "provider" for these. That has yet to be determined. I am only facilitating there progress and beta testing. Since I know quite a bit about the system and have provided BNR with all the cores that he needed for this initial batch. I am also doing the "correct" style of hose and fittings for the water and oil lines. i want these to be a pefect fit. We will most likely stay with the banjo style fittings as opposed to the AN style. (Not like what you see above by "turbosupra"). AN fittings sometimes have issues when removed and re applied whereas banjo's do not.

I think the "ultimate" final package would be the oil/water lines and the manifold as a kit. But others may want just the turbos.

3) The new electronic boost controller that I am almost finished with is designed to plug directly into the EBV VSV up top. This will have the ability to control the amount of pre-transition boost from stock (10psi) up to 18psi. No more hose rerouting, just plug and play. I just need to set up the map sensor and adjust the circuitry to be accurate to boost levels (calibrated) Once overall boost is increased over stock, it is a good idea to raise the pre-transition boost a little to match full transition boost. Similar to stock from 10-11 psi, this can be like 15-18psi.

Stu
 

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Well after installing the vpc the car is running stumbling a bit when I tap the throttle. Is this normal??? This is a used VPC and I just installed the new correct chip for my set up. I'm also throwing a couple codes #14 and #31
#14 Ignition Signal
#31 Mass air flow meter circuit
Ive got all the dial's in the 12'O clock position and its like the box isn't working correctly. I've put the 1.2k resistor in to keep the air temp code from getting thrown on but I'm still having trouble with the unit. When I plug the old maf and disconnect the VPC the codes are off and the car runs normal.
Can you shed any light on this?????

Install on the Stu&Aaron Turbo's took about 10 hours to put everything back together but thats becuse I'm in not major hurry so I wanted to double check everything and installed new gaskets oil lines and everything.. I'm sure it could be done quicker the next time but I wanted to make sure it was perfect!
One hurdle was bolting the inlet compressor tube to the #1 turbo I got a little too much muscle into it and stripped out the stud but luckily there were about 5 more threads at the bottoms. So I was able to take a longer bolt and get it to bite down and tighten back up.
So far so good I've fired it up but just working through the VPC problem and then I'll be ready to tune. So if any one can shed some light on this VPC problem I'll be on the Dyno by next week to give ya'll some results.
2 weeks before the number 1 blew I dyno'd 411 rwhp @ 16.7psi. So I'm looking forward to seeing what it does now.
Thanks
Hey, sounds like a possible wiring issue. Lets look at what you did. Maybe you have the "yellow" wire wrong. I can tell you that it is common when first starting, the car stumbles. It takes a minute for the car to "learn" the new mapping. I would guess however that you have done something wrong if your getting those codes. You using an after market fuel controller? Did you use MKiV wiring instructions?

Stu
 

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Fantastic work Stu ! I am simply in awe of your dedication. A few questions though.

1) Have these required extra effort in terms of tuning or can the stock ECU actually adequately account for the change in airflow.

2) On a similar note, what type of output (boost/rwhp) is capable on pump(93) vs racegas?

I’m otherwise assuming that these are within the bounds of the stock fuel system (i.e. ~525 rwhp or so). This looks on paper like a killer street setup. The big low-end torque of the great Toyota sequential design coupled with possibly 125-130mph trap speeds.
 

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Stock Twins King
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Fantastic work Stu ! I am simply in awe of your dedication. A few questions though.

1) Have these required extra effort in terms of tuning or can the stock ECU actually adequately account for the change in airflow.

2) On a similar note, what type of output (boost/rwhp) is capable on pump(93) vs racegas?

I’m otherwise assuming that these are within the bounds of the stock fuel system (i.e. ~525 rwhp or so). This looks on paper like a killer street setup. The big low-end torque of the great Toyota sequential design coupled with possibly 125-130mph trap speeds.

1) Should be PNP. Although, based on the past 4 years of people in UK and Australia, with similar set-ups, there were issues with using the proper actuators.
There were issues whether to use modified OEM ones, or aftermarket ones designed to better fit the new turbos. We plan on the latter. That's why these are in "test". Only real way of determining is to see what happens once installed.
IMO, no issues. I would expect about a 100-150 rpm lag way down low. Even with the ones I have now, I see a "slight" difference. The little "dip" in the seq curve at transition becomes more pronounced tho.

2) From what I have heard so far, I would expect 450-460 on pump gas at 18psi. Although we are thinking that 20psi on pump still is doable. These are WAY more efficient, heat producing wise. But then again, it is hard to determine what the ECU will do at 20psi. As far as fuel, these for sure will approach the limits of a stock fuel system. Maybe a dual feed, and some minor stock tweaks may make things OK. But I will tell you, that these can be pushed, maybe with a shot, close to 700 whp. IMO, I wouldnt do it, but they are capable. Just like hitting 24psi on stockers, maybe not efficient 700, but non the less capable.

Stu
 

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Wow--things are progressing here.

1) My current set up, which are Aarons hybrids, are a direct bolt up using the oem band clamps. What this means that you dont need to take off much to install these. I think it I took like 4 hours to install them. Biggest pita is the underside oil line and the banjo fitting on the block. Hard to do as a "blind" feel install. Aarons are honed machined compressor housings with a T3 wheel. Thats all. Supporting an additional 50 whp +/-. Also less money.
Stu can the same effect be had by actually buying the turbos direct from garrett and modifying the stock manifold to suit, welding in new flanges and porting etc or is it a better idea to use the cartridge in the original stock turbos?? On the back of this, will the same work for J-spec turbos as I guess your probably using US/UK turbos?

Are there any other things in the sequential system when doing this upgrade that need looking at? ie actuators, vsv's etc? And have you found fitting parts an issue once the new turbos are in?

how do the vsv's cope with the change over from turbo to turbo

2) The initial set was made well over a year ago, maybe 2, and "hammerhead" was the guy who bought it. It has taken him all this time to get around to installing them and coming up with his own style manifold and oil/water lines.
By own style manifold, do you mean just porting and welding in the new flange to hold the housings? How does the new setup effect flow etc, do you feel the stock manifold is up to the job of the increased flow/pressure produced

The 24 sets that I am doing now will most likely have all the water/oil lines premade. We are discussing the manifold issue as well. Maybe have these made.
would you consider the lines and manifold being made a tough job Stu....this is something I have been trying to research for years and never been brave enough to try and get things underway?

very very interesting reading
 

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Wow what an amazing post,

Stu, I wish you the best of luck with your new hybrids, let me know how your testing ends up, I could be interested in buying a pair of these if you get all the bugs out. I Actually subscribed to those australian guys' post years ago, I would read the thread for hours, I thought what they were doing was absolutely amazing. Good luck with everything, ill be stopping back here daily.

-Brett
 

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I'm always interested in the stock factory twins look since california has so many smog issues. I contact Stu Hagen and Aaron a while back for a set of twins but never got a respond back from Aaron.
Ken pm me if you ever decided to let them twins go, I'll be interested!
Let us know how much differance it makes. THX KXIONG

BTW STU hows your car and thanks for the quick pm.
Sorry Kou,
I must have accidentally misplaced your e-mail. Send me your address either by PM or to [email protected] and we can try again. My day job gets in the way of my turbo hobbies on a regular basis LOL.
 

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Wow--things are progressing here.

1) My current set up, which are Aarons hybrids, are a direct bolt up using the oem band clamps. What this means that you dont need to take off much to install these. I think it I took like 4 hours to install them. Biggest pita is the underside oil line and the banjo fitting on the block. Hard to do as a "blind" feel install. Aarons are honed machined compressor housings with a T3 wheel. Thats all. Supporting an additional 50 whp +/-. Also less money.

2) The BNR upgrade uses GT28R "cartridge" Which means larger turbine and larger shaft. This requires an almost complete tear down to install, Since these are entirely new cartidges, the band clamp housing is machined off and totally removed. The new install uses bolts to attach to the exhaust housing (look closer at the pics and you will see) One side note that I was in error about. These GT28R's are NOT ball bearing as I thought. After discussing this more with BNR, he reminded me that he could not install the BB ones because he would bore right thru the housings. Not enough meat for those. The initial set was made well over a year ago, maybe 2, and "hammerhead" was the guy who bought it. It has taken him all this time to get around to installing them and coming up with his own style manifold and oil/water lines.

The 24 sets that I am doing now will most likely have all the water/oil lines premade. I am waiting for Bobby ("hammerhead") to finish everything up here in a week or so to iron out certain fitment issues. We are discussing the manifold issue as well. Maybe have these made. But cart before the horse here. He will be providing dynos, etc. very soon. These should make more power than the ones I am running now. Or at least the same, but capable to boost an additional 4 psi safely due to 33% larger shaft. (Turbo balanced to 180K or 24psi)

I do not intend to be the overall "provider" for these. That has yet to be determined. I am only facilitating there progress and beta testing. Since I know quite a bit about the system and have provided BNR with all the cores that he needed for this initial batch. I am also doing the "correct" style of hose and fittings for the water and oil lines. i want these to be a pefect fit. We will most likely stay with the banjo style fittings as opposed to the AN style. (Not like what you see above by "turbosupra"). AN fittings sometimes have issues when removed and re applied whereas banjo's do not.

I think the "ultimate" final package would be the oil/water lines and the manifold as a kit. But others may want just the turbos.

3) The new electronic boost controller that I am almost finished with is designed to plug directly into the EBV VSV up top. This will have the ability to control the amount of pre-transition boost from stock (10psi) up to 18psi. No more hose rerouting, just plug and play. I just need to set up the map sensor and adjust the circuitry to be accurate to boost levels (calibrated) Once overall boost is increased over stock, it is a good idea to raise the pre-transition boost a little to match full transition boost. Similar to stock from 10-11 psi, this can be like 15-18psi.

Stu
Hi Stu,
I am sorry to hear that the other turbos are not BB. I think the compressor side of my hybrids and the BNR set-up are nearly identical size wise. If you have the specs for the turbine let me know, as that will be the primary difference in the turbos. The bigger shaft without ball bearings will be more durable, but the spool up may not be as good if the journal diameters are bigger as well. Hammerhead's mani looks like a pretty sweet upgrade as well. It would be interesting to see how much of gain can be had from the mani alone.
Regards,
Aaron
 

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Aaron300
If I had more time, I would have swapped the manifold onto the stock shitters. On Pump they made 458/478. That was enough to put 3550 down the track in the 11.2/11.3's(6spd)

Stu
We need to talk about this Boost controller you are working on. I do not run my car seq for traction issues. The car flat out hooks way harder and better TTC. But I do miss the Seq. Im gonna need to pick your brain a bit on this. To make this a true bolt in job we may need the help of Cowboy Bebop to make a Billet Oil return flange with 5/8" Connections since the "BNR" Center section uses 5/8" returns and OEM is 7/8"

-or-

Maybe it would be easier to make 7/8" Drains for the "BNR" center section. I think 7/8" is way overkill though.

Ill have to attach some other pics I have of the oiling setup. Pics are at work.

Its late, im tired, All of the above... May make no sense...
 

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What's theotherforum?




So I've been keeping watch over the past two years (as many others have..and for longer) for hybrid turbos which retain the sequential operating system and offer significant hp gains.

Well Stu Hagen, King of the Sequential twins (not necessarily "stock" sequential twins in this case), has come up with this exact option. Below please find a link to the initial discussion from the dyno section. #49 on pg. 2 is where it gets interesting.

One beta tester already has these on. I'll let him come on board with the specifics but basically he is finishing up the plumbing and then he'll be putting them on the dyno. and doing a "how to". I will be doing the same as soon as I get my pair.

He also has a manifold which will allow these turbos to really breathe. Inner diameter of the turbo inlet is the same as the ID of the piping. 600+ on race gas should be possible with this setup.

Hopefully the guys on the "other" forum will chime in here and help this get rolling also as I've cross-linked the threads :) . Big thanks to Stu and all the others involved in this project. They add so much to the Supra community.

http://supraforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=427097

http://www."theotherforum".com/vb/showthread.php?t=3834
 

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Stock Twins King
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Stu can the same effect be had by actually buying the turbos direct from garrett and modifying the stock manifold to suit, welding in new flanges and porting etc or is it a better idea to use the cartridge in the original stock turbos?? On the back of this, will the same work for J-spec turbos as I guess your probably using US/UK turbos?
J Spec requires a comlete USDM swap. I wouldnt guarantee you would get what you want by buying directly from Garrett. Much better off dealing with a turbo builder. Besides, there are concerns on getting the correct balances and the proper alignments.

Are there any other things in the sequential system when doing this upgrade that need looking at? ie actuators, vsv's etc? And have you found fitting parts an issue once the new turbos are in?
Shouldnt be any issues. Except possibly actuators.We are still testing these to insure they work properly under seq operation.

how do the vsv's cope with the change over from turbo to turbo.
These are an electronic fed items by the ECU. I dont see that there will be any issues. They react to manifold pressure by the ECU.


By own style manifold, do you mean just porting and welding in the new flange to hold the housings? How does the new setup effect flow etc, do you feel the stock manifold is up to the job of the increased flow/pressure produced.
See below "hammerheads" custom made manifold. Something like this will make these, or even stockers, work a lot better, flow wise.





would you consider the lines and manifold being made a tough job Stu....this is something I have been trying to research for years and never been brave enough to try and get things underway?
Read "hammerheads" response to this. Difficult-----no, detailed------yes. Important-------yes, in doing them correctly.



Hope these answers help~!
 
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