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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey guys,

I have a real painful situation here :(

My front/right targa bolt is screwed up because of me being to violent (and Toyota offering a shitty stock tool) and is now on the edge of either being broken or come loose :sad:

Now, what should I do, I can bang up a one size bigger insexwith a hammer and try to pry it open with *much* force, BUT, if it spins round and doesn't come loose I'm screwed right?
Should I loosen the other 3 bolts before trying to twist the last one around, or should they be tight so the targa doesn't flex while twisting?
You can't heat the area around the bolt becasue of the roof/interior fabric neither right? I don't want to set the interior on fire in my precious Supra :)

Any tips and pointers here, anyone in the same situation?
I've searched around the forums and found quite a lot on how to replace the targa bolt but nothing on how to remove the targa when the bolt are screwed and won't come lose :( Please help!

Thanks in advance guys!

Please help!
 
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
brian_k03 said:
can u take a pic?
is the bolt stripped?
Brian,

I'll try to get a pic up later tonight, however, I don't think it will tell you much at all, it is the stock bolt that is *a bit* stripped (I can get the correct size insex key in there but it is near the edge) as you say, yes, not much more

I've tried with lots of force and hammering to get it to spin around so I can take of the targa but no luck:( And now I'm afraid it will spin around and get totally stripped and screwed if I push harder :( I have to get this damn roof of, summer is comming and it is ruining my plans, please help guys?

Thanks again Brian!
 

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Banned
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1,624 Posts
You might want to wait on pulling out the targa till u can get it fixed.
Because if there is something wrong, it will rattle like hell.

I had the dealer replace a rear/left bolt on the targa.
It was 90$ with labor but they let it slide. (I got the part for them from Curt)
 

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Will work for Supra parts
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624 Posts
You mean the head of the bolt is stripped, correct?

First of all, put down the hammer!

With these socket head cap screws, either the head of screw gets rounded out, or the allen wrench itself will begin to wear and round off the hex corners. The wear and rounding usually happens because the wrench wasn't seated properly inside the socket head. In other words, it wasn't pressed all the way down, or it was held at an angle and not perpendicular to the screw, following a good tightening, which rounds out both the wrench and the head.

In such a case, you might still have a chance to at least loosen the screws one more time so you can get the roof off and change out the screws.

Take a close look at the wrench. If the hex corners are rounded off, simply cut or grind the end of the wrench off which is damaged. It only requires about an 1/8" to 3/16" to be removed. This will give you a fresh hex with perfect corners once again. Sometimes this alone is enough to provide the grip needed to loosen a rounded out socket head screw.

It won't hurt to shine a flash light up into the head of the screws either. This will at least give you an idea of how bad the heads are rounded out, if only to let you know what you can expect. In example, what's in store for you.

Give your wrench a try once more after cutting off the end to expose a fresh, never used hex profile. As I said, this usually works. Use some strong force to make absolutely sure the hex wrench is bottomed all the way into the head of the screw. A lot of times, it's the very outside edge of the head that is rounded, and the inner most parts will still have a good hex profile to engage the wrench.

Assuming this doesn't work, you've got a few more options.

There is a tool made that is called an impact driver. It is not an impact wrench, but a tool that works a lot like one. It has the impact mechanism inside a cylinderical body and can be used to break free a frozen or somewhat screw, or one with a somewhat stripped out head. What you do is pick the proper bit to use and then place the tool with the bit into the srew similar to a screw driver. Then you give it a quick, sharp blow with a hammer and it produces one cyle of an impact. The blow from the hammer both drives the impact mechanism and also helps drive the bit down into the head of the screw (to help eliminate stripping the head more). Craftsman makes, as do others. The only catch is these are usually sold with philips or standard bladed bits. You might be able to buy a seperate allen wrench type hex bit though. Definitely look into it. It may be wise to try this right away. Check out a local Sears.

Option two - If previous attempts simply rounded the screw head out worse, then here is something you might be able to try. Sort of a second to last ditch attempt. JB Weld the exact hex wrench into the cap screw's head and let it fully cure. JB Weld is some pretty strong stuff, so this might work well for you. The downside is you'll need to go out and buy one allen wrench for every stripped screw you have. Once it's JB Welded together, I doubt it's going to come back out.

Option three - Assuming all the above failed, then your last attempt should be this. Buy a screw extractor set and some left hand drill bits. Get some high quality stuff. Don't skimp here. Screw extractors will usually come with the left hand drill bits. There is small chance the left hand drill bit itself will grab the srews by themselves once you start drilling. If so, that's great! You'll have maybe a 50/50 chance. The reason for left hand bits is so that if the drill does grab the screw, the counter clockwise rotation will naturally unscrew the screw for you. If it doesn't, that's what the screw extractors are for. A cordless drill will be very handy here. Use caution and try to keep the drill bit as prefectly centered as possible. Drilling of center will cause problems later. It shouldn't be to tough, as the head has a the hex machined into the exact center anyway. I would have to recommend you be very careful when drilling. It could be really easy to make matters worse if you don't have experience with this procedure!

One other option to consider - I know it's very tight inside the targa roof with the heads of the screws being counter sunk and all, but anothe trick I have used with sucess on rounded out socket head cap screws is to take a small center punch to the head of the screw. The center punch can be used to close up and tighten the hex profile so it fits the wrench tighter, even after it's been rounded out from previous efforts. What you need to do is line the punch up just along the outside edge of the hex and give it a few light blows with a hammer. The punch will begin to deform the open hex part of the head and close up the opening. Use care here too, as it will be easy to over do it and your allen wrench will no longer fit into the opening at all. Just check as you go. When it feels snug, try loosening up the screw.

Keep in ming space restrictions might prevent you from trying a couple of these suggestions, but with some luck one of them may be able to help you out. Good luck man! I know the sinking feeling of a stripped out head all to well.
 

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rockin the two tone
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191 Posts
Excellent post. How hard is it to remove the headliner incase I want to do some preventative maintenance and go ahead and replace the bolts?
 
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Espeefan said:
You mean the head of the bolt is stripped, correct?

First of all, put down the hammer!

With these socket head cap screws, either the head of screw gets rounded out, or the allen wrench itself will begin to wear and round off the hex corners. The wear and rounding usually happens because the wrench wasn't seated properly inside the socket head. In other words, it wasn't pressed all the way down, or it was held at an angle and not perpendicular to the screw, following a good tightening, which rounds out both the wrench and the head.

In such a case, you might still have a chance to at least loosen the screws one more time so you can get the roof off and change out the screws.

Take a close look at the wrench. If the hex corners are rounded off, simply cut or grind the end of the wrench off which is damaged. It only requires about an 1/8" to 3/16" to be removed. This will give you a fresh hex with perfect corners once again. Sometimes this alone is enough to provide the grip needed to loosen a rounded out socket head screw.

It won't hurt to shine a flash light up into the head of the screws either. This will at least give you an idea of how bad the heads are rounded out, if only to let you know what you can expect. In example, what's in store for you.

Give your wrench a try once more after cutting off the end to expose a fresh, never used hex profile. As I said, this usually works. Use some strong force to make absolutely sure the hex wrench is bottomed all the way into the head of the screw. A lot of times, it's the very outside edge of the head that is rounded, and the inner most parts will still have a good hex profile to engage the wrench.

Assuming this doesn't work, you've got a few more options.

There is a tool made that is called an impact driver. It is not an impact wrench, but a tool that works a lot like one. It has the impact mechanism inside a cylinderical body and can be used to break free a frozen or somewhat screw, or one with a somewhat stripped out head. What you do is pick the proper bit to use and then place the tool with the bit into the srew similar to a screw driver. Then you give it a quick, sharp blow with a hammer and it produces one cyle of an impact. The blow from the hammer both drives the impact mechanism and also helps drive the bit down into the head of the screw (to help eliminate stripping the head more). Craftsman makes, as do others. The only catch is these are usually sold with philips or standard bladed bits. You might be able to buy a seperate allen wrench type hex bit though. Definitely look into it. It may be wise to try this right away. Check out a local Sears.

Option two - If previous attempts simply rounded the screw head out worse, then here is something you might be able to try. Sort of a second to last ditch attempt. JB Weld the exact hex wrench into the cap screw's head and let it fully cure. JB Weld is some pretty strong stuff, so this might work well for you. The downside is you'll need to go out and buy one allen wrench for every stripped screw you have. Once it's JB Welded together, I doubt it's going to come back out.

Option three - Assuming all the above failed, then your last attempt should be this. Buy a screw extractor set and some left hand drill bits. Get some high quality stuff. Don't skimp here. Screw extractors will usually come with the left hand drill bits. There is small chance the left hand drill bit itself will grab the srews by themselves once you start drilling. If so, that's great! You'll have maybe a 50/50 chance. The reason for left hand bits is so that if the drill does grab the screw, the counter clockwise rotation will naturally unscrew the screw for you. If it doesn't, that's what the screw extractors are for. A cordless drill will be very handy here. Use caution and try to keep the drill bit as prefectly centered as possible. Drilling of center will cause problems later. It shouldn't be to tough, as the head has a the hex machined into the exact center anyway. I would have to recommend you be very careful when drilling. It could be really easy to make matters worse if you don't have experience with this procedure!

One other option to consider - I know it's very tight inside the targa roof with the heads of the screws being counter sunk and all, but anothe trick I have used with sucess on rounded out socket head cap screws is to take a small center punch to the head of the screw. The center punch can be used to close up and tighten the hex profile so it fits the wrench tighter, even after it's been rounded out from previous efforts. What you need to do is line the punch up just along the outside edge of the hex and give it a few light blows with a hammer. The punch will begin to deform the open hex part of the head and close up the opening. Use care here too, as it will be easy to over do it and your allen wrench will no longer fit into the opening at all. Just check as you go. When it feels snug, try loosening up the screw.

Keep in ming space restrictions might prevent you from trying a couple of these suggestions, but with some luck one of them may be able to help you out. Good luck man! I know the sinking feeling of a stripped out head all to well.
WOW! :) Beautiful and excellent post Espeefan!

I'm from Sweden so it is a bit hard for me to understand "industrial and machine shop english" I'm afraid :/ We have no local Sears neither :)

I will try and check up on all the options you mentioned above, however, I'm not good at this kind of stuff at all.
I had a mechanic friend look at it and he banged up a hex allen with a hammer, tried to twist it but with no luck, so he gave up :(

Summer is comming and for the first time in 3 years my Supra is ready to hit the road but now this problem came up and I feel lousy as hell, I'm starting to hate this car for giving me so much headache :(

Also, do you think I should loosen the other 3 bolts or shoud they be tightened because it does make a lot of difference for the targa stabilitity even when the car just sitt still, the question is if they should be tight or loose, what do you think?

Will it be easier for you to help me if I went out and took pics? I would really appreciate all help, especially if you could explain in a bit easir way on how to solve this damn issue :)

Thanks again for all your time guys! It is greatly appreciated!
 

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I pretend to be fast
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Mine sometimes sticks too. What I do is take a 6mm socket and use the stock hex key. Push it all the way into the screw. Than take the socket wrench and put it in the 6mm socket. Get a small pipe to fit over the end of the wrench for some better leverage/ torque and then loosen it up. Usually works for me. Give it a try, but be careful not to snap the screw, if it feels like it might break, stop. Worth a shot, no?
 

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Will work for Supra parts
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Ahh, sorry Weronica! I didn't realize you located outside of the good old USA. :D Your english is very good.

Okay, well it sounds like your stuck bolt's head (which the wrench fits into) is simply rounded out now. I've delt with this situation before with sucess, but the trouble is the bolts that hold the targa in place are recessed below the surface and it's going to be a big pain to get that one out that has a rounded out head. Tight confines, with not much room to fit anything in the recessed hole, in which the bolt hides.

In my other post I mentioned using something we call a 'screw extractor' here in the USA.

Here is what a set of the screw extractors look like.



Basically they are hardened (stronger) steel tools and the threads on them screw into the bolt or screw you are trying to remove or loosen. You first drill a hole into the bolt you want to remove and it's size is just large enough to get the extractor inside the hole. Then the threads bite into the stuck bolt and as you turn them they hopefully grab and spin the bolt out for you when you turn them. I'm sure your friend knows about them. If not, you could check with a local machine shop or fabricating shop in your area and see if they can help you out. They will probably have some ideas for you too. I am not sure what they would charge you to remove the screw, so give them a call on the telephone to ask.

Another type of screw extractor you may consider is this type.



It may or may not work with the bolts on your targa, but it's a possibility. These have a sharp edge that grabs into a rounded out screw head and if they bite and grab the head they also spin out the screw.

When I talked about 'center punches' here is a picture of what I was refering to.



Basically what I was describing with the center punch process was to take it's tip and position it on the outside edge of the recessed hex (what the wrench fits inside of) and give it some light taps. This could help close up the hex hole and tighten the grip it will have on your targa wrench.

For the JB Weld idea, you need another wrench just like that of your targa wrench which fits the screws. What we call a 'T handled hex wrench' will work prefectly. JB Weld is a steel expoxy type of glue. It might be available in Sweden too, or something similar to it. When it is dry it becomes very strong. My idea was to take the proper sized T handle wrench, and using the steel epoxy, glue it into the head of the targa bolt. The hard part is you will need a way to hold the wrench inside the head while the glue dries. It takes about 24 hours. At that point, when the expoxy is dry, the bond should be strong enough to allow you turn tarag bolt out. The down side is once the bolt is out, the wrench will be pretty much stuck to the bolt. You will need to replace the bolt anyway, so this is not a big deal.

T handle hex wrenches look like this -



You will only need one. Buy the correct size which matches your targa bolts. I can't remember which size this is as I haven't looked at mine for a while, but I will guess it is a 5mm or 4mm that you will need.

Here is the JB Weld stuff I was talking about - http://jbweld.net/products/index.php

Basically that's the best I can do for you. I hope this helps you out. Good luck!
 

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Will work for Supra parts
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624 Posts
Actually no. I just bought my first Mk IV Supra, thank you! :D I don't have any rounded out targa bolts on my car. If I did, I would be sick!

Lets just say I've had some experience in my line of work with rounded out heads, broken, or even sheared bolts and screws. I know how much of a pain they are to remove and I just thought I'd share some advice.

Thanks for correcting me on the proper size.
 
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Espeefan;

Incredible answer, I'm almost touched :) Now, after your clarification, it all makes a lot more sense to me :) This forum needs more members like you!

I will try theese strategies and PM you with the result!

Thanks again!
 
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Espeefan,

I talked to the mechanic and he says that the option with the JB Weld (We will use Loctite strongest stuff) is the only way to go, is he right? How will I do if and after we get it loose? Is it a PITA to change it, can the old one be fixed?

Also, do you think it's a good idea to go with? I don't want any more trouble with this car :(

Thanks again, much appreciated!
 

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Will work for Supra parts
Joined
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624 Posts
Weronica Supra,

I'm not sure how the Loc-Tite will do for you. I've never tried it, but it's worth giving a try. It certainly won't make matters worse. Your mechanic must be talking about the red Loc-Tite?

As for swapping out the targa bolt, well I've never done that and I honestly wouldn't know where to begin. I'm really new to Supras, so I've never experienced this. I assume the headliner could be removed and that would give you access to the bolt, but maybe someone else could chime in here and help discribe that process? I would suggest buying a new bolt to replace the old. They are cheap. There isn't really a way to repair a rounded out head.

Anyway, best of luck. If that fails you, ask your mechanic about trying the screw extractors, as that may be your only other chance.
 
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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Espeefan,

I will ask him what kind of Loc-Tite he's referring to when I see him next time, I need to get this fixed asap :(

Doesn't some kind of write-up exit on replacing a targa bolt somewhere? Anyone?

Thanks!
 
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