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I vote for a lightly used B8 generation Audi S4 (stick shift if you're inclined), the Supercharged V6 responds well to a simple tune (+80 hp, see APR), and the quattro will see you through the winters. Maintenance will be higher than non-euro cars, but that's something you either accept or don't. There are plenty of them for sale in the 20-30k range.
 

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Discussion Starter #22
The allure of the IS-F is totally lost on me, especially now that they've aged.. :dunno: I was really interested in one a few years ago, and eventually checked a few out. Slim pickings and none of them were "it", so kept searching. In the interim I drove a CTS-V2 and instantly forgot all about the F. Picked up the V and enjoyed the hell out of it. The wagons still go for stupid money, but the coupes and sedans are very reasonably priced now --- awesome bang for the buck if you're interested in the performance/fun factor with practicality.
I agree, I want to be excited about the ISF but I'm just not for some reason. I like the concept of getting a V with a manual but they seem pretty rare. Would love a wagon but don't like them nearly enough to justify wagon pricing.


STI? AWD, four door, stick, turbocharged or CTS-V wagon.
I had an 08 STI before and I just wasn't crazy about it, too worried about my pistons becoming eggs and I found the performance to be underwhelming. Plus I'd like something a little big bigger this time around.


Ctsv hands down winner. The eurotrash will dollar you to death and the other options are....meh.
If I bought a E63 or a Cayenne or a Panamera or whatever, I'd likely try to find one with an extended warranty and sell when it's out.


Reliability is # for the ISF. It also get's great gas mileage. The CTSV is also a great car, but they don't age well and get really bad gas mileage as well, if you care about that sort of thing. They can make a lot of power though.

Steve K.
I agree I'm not sold on the CTS styling and again I know the ISF is probably the smartest financial choice but I just don't love it.


I’ve owned many of the car in your original consideration list...

Cayenne - pretty fun SUV, handles great for its size and you almost forget you’re in an SUV. Was very reliable until we sold it at 100k miles. It was my wife’s daily and while I enjoyed it on weekend drives, would not be my first choice for daily for me.

Panamera - we had the GTS version. Probably the best overall sedan I’ve ever owned. It was my wife’s daily replacing the SUV and was always the keys I reached for at any opportunity. Fast, amazing sound, great interior, just an all around fun car.

M5 - loved the power and tech but was always scared of the next thing breaking on it. Never really connected with the car, probably because I lost trust in its reliability quickly. And this is coming from a hardcore BMW guy. (Mine was the v10 e60 so I realize not apples to apples, but I can only imagine the increased level of complexity in the newer model)

ISF - my daily for 6 years. I drove it HARD every single day and mile, and it just took it day after day. Incredible response to bolt-ons for NA (400+whp), solid fun car. Tech sucked, interior was small, but I still easily had 2 small kids in the back (took the front seat all the way up for a rear facing seat behind it). Highly recommended for being able to own the car and worry about nothing except tires and oil.

GSF - replaced the ISF and have had it for a year now. Feels much bigger when you drive it, more mature and refined. Tech is night and day compared to ISF and those are some of the best seats ever in it. Same response to mods as ISF.

If I had to pick one all over again, it would be Panamera as long as it was under warranty. Not that it was unreliable, but you do not want to have to pay for any of the parts out of pocket. Front air suspension failure would have cost us thousands and it’s pretty common after a few years.

Out of warranty...ISF all day long for it’s value these days. Toyota quality, some basic mods and it’s a fun daily.

Good luck in your decision.
Thanks for the feedback! We apparently have very similar automotive taste. Most of these cars I'd try to get an extended warranty; definitely the Cayenne and Panamera. There is a couple 11 Cayenne Turbos that I'm thinking about going to drive. What model Cayenne did you have? Why do you say it wouldn't be your first choice? I'm just not sure if I can get over the rear 3/4 view of the Panamera. Really like the GSF but the only one for sale in Canada right now is 63k, just more than I want to spend for this car.

ISF is going to be a popular recommendation on this forum for obvious reasons. However, based on some of the other options you've listed it looks like you are really looking for something that will comfortably accommodate extra passengers.
Interior room is not really the ISF's strong suit and as some have mentioned, they are starting to age a bit.

We all know that reliability is going to be a question with most of the german marques. That being said, of the options you have listed I would have to look REALLY, REALLY hard at the S7.
Overall, the car pretty much has it all.....great looks (subjective, obviously), great interior styling, AWD, and V8TT.
Pretty damn impressive.

On the CTS-V.....personally I am a fan of the performance but can't get past the styling (interior and exterior) of the Gen-2 models.
That and the cheapness of the interior materials basically kill any interest I would have in the car.
The wagons are badass, though. LOL

Haven't checked the pricing on the current C63 AMG sedans, but pretty sure they are a bit beyond the price point you are looking at.

While we are discussing german options.....E92/93 M3, maybe?
Pretty much all of the same criticisms that were leveled against the ISF would apply here, though.
But hey...manual is on the table. :D
I agree I'm a bit worried about the size of the ISF especially with a rear facing car seat, although it won't last too much longer. I don't want the passenger seat to have to be all the way forward and tilted to the point that it's uncomfortable in the meantime. Same feelings on the CTS, I wish I was more excited about them but can't say I can picture myself owning any GM product aside from a Corvette. In this price range it would be an older C63 08-13, or maybe a newer c43 but I think size would rule these out. I looked briefly at the F80 M3 since you can get them in four doors but I have the same size concerns and I'd have to spend more.

I'll throw a curve ball to this. How about a Chevy SS sedan with the 6 speed manual. I have one and absolutely love this thing. Stock they do look a bit mild but it is probably the best car you never heard of. Only negative I can think of is gas mileage is only about 16 combined and always having to explain what kind of car it is and who made it. Just YouTube SS sedan 6speed and hear what all the reviewers have to say.

All I did was lower, tint, black the trim out and put rims on her and this is what you get.

View attachment 236997
I'll check them out but I'm just not sure I can get excited about them being a GM product. They are pretty rare here also, not sure I'd even find one. Because of the rarity, the Chevrolet SS doesn't have a category in most search engines so it gets grouped in with other things, not sure I care enough to go through the 960 postings with "SS" in the ad. Dumb name.

I vote for a lightly used B8 generation Audi S4 (stick shift if you're inclined), the Supercharged V6 responds well to a simple tune (+80 hp, see APR), and the quattro will see you through the winters. Maintenance will be higher than non-euro cars, but that's something you either accept or don't. There are plenty of them for sale in the 20-30k range.
I like the S4 but they are definitely too small for what I'm looking for in this car.
 

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I'll check out the SS but I've never really been a big American car guy.
Lucky for you, its Australian :)

Whille I have not been in an IS for a while, the SS (VF Commodore) is a very nice bit of gear, but it depends on what price they are going for really and what you could get for a similar price.
 

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I'll check them out but I'm just not sure I can get excited about them being a GM product. They are pretty rare here also, not sure I'd even find one. Because of the rarity, the Chevrolet SS doesn't have a category in most search engines so it gets grouped in with other things, not sure I care enough to go through the 960 postings with "SS" in the ad. Dumb name.

Like CussCuss said, it is really a Holden product sold under the Chevy badge. If you have a chance to test drive the 6 speed manual version and you will be surprised at this car. They did homework on the tuning of this car as the chassis is basically a Camaro chassis with a longer wheelbase. They also tend to hold their value due to their rarity. I agree on the name thing as they just sold this car here to fulfill the old Pontiac G8 contract with Holden as they didn't import enough of them before Pontiac went bell up. You will notice they never advertised or marketed the car cause GM didn't care.
 

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Thanks for the feedback! We apparently have very similar automotive taste. Most of these cars I'd try to get an extended warranty; definitely the Cayenne and Panamera. There is a couple 11 Cayenne Turbos that I'm thinking about going to drive. What model Cayenne did you have? Why do you say it wouldn't be your first choice? I'm just not sure if I can get over the rear 3/4 view of the Panamera. Really like the GSF but the only one for sale in Canada right now is 63k, just more than I want to spend for this car.
I guess I'm more of a sedan guy personally. Cayenne is as close to a sports car as an SUV could be, but from the drivers seats, the Panamera felt much better. You forget about rear 3/4 view quickly...you actually forget there is even a back seat.

Keep a look out for the GSF and see if you find a deal. Its the ideal cross between the reliability of the ISF and the larger luxury of the Panamera. Springs, wheels, exhaust/headers and its a fun daily you can enjoy for years. Won't be as fast as M5 or CTSV obviously, but a good all around car. A couple pics of mine to help sway you.

gsf_1.jpg
gsf_2.jpg

Good luck.
 

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Random thoughts: As cool as the Focus RS looks on the exterior; I couldn't get over the interior. It just looks already-dated and cheap. There's quite a few Supra owners who have an IS-F as well, they really seem to love em.

I'm glad someone else mentioned the Chevy SS. Awesome cars. They sound glorious with exhaust. Then again, most of LS/ GM sounds pretty good. I would say that these check off a lot of boxes for a fun daily. Being rare is icing on the cake so at least if you decide to sell you probably won't take a loss.
 

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Reason #486 not to make your street car a race car and remove creature comforts such as A/C , makes it much easier to come up with reasons to sell. I will not be recommending another vehicle to you as I represent the % of supra owners that don't forget why I own the cars despite not driving them hardly. Kids are temporarily small and will grow up and leave you for college/job/kids of their own. The supra will always be there for you, never complains either. ba humbug.

Matt
 

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Reason #486 not to make your street car a race car and remove creature comforts such as A/C , makes it much easier to come up with reasons to sell. I will not be recommending another vehicle to you as I represent the % of supra owners that don't forget why I own the cars despite not driving them hardly. Kids are temporarily small and will grow up and leave you for college/job/kids of their own. The supra will always be there for you, never complains either. ba humbug.

Matt
100% TRUTH!!! I made this mistake, 7 years later I got another Supra and paid more for it. Will keep forever! I tried tons of other cars to include a Z06, none of them were a Supra.
 

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A couple pics of mine to help sway you.
Good luck.
hyboost,
Just wanted to say your GSF looks absolutely killer!
OP had already excluded the GSF due to cost which is the only reason why I didn't mention it.
Otherwise, it would be at the top of my list of recommendations.

Yours looks perfect, man.
 

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Discussion Starter #31
Like CussCuss said, it is really a Holden product sold under the Chevy badge. If you have a chance to test drive the 6 speed manual version and you will be surprised at this car. They did homework on the tuning of this car as the chassis is basically a Camaro chassis with a longer wheelbase. They also tend to hold their value due to their rarity. I agree on the name thing as they just sold this car here to fulfill the old Pontiac G8 contract with Holden as they didn't import enough of them before Pontiac went bell up. You will notice they never advertised or marketed the car cause GM didn't care.
I'll keep looking into them, but I'm not sure if I'll even be able to find one in Canadaland.

I guess I'm more of a sedan guy personally. Cayenne is as close to a sports car as an SUV could be, but from the drivers seats, the Panamera felt much better. You forget about rear 3/4 view quickly...you actually forget there is even a back seat.

Keep a look out for the GSF and see if you find a deal. Its the ideal cross between the reliability of the ISF and the larger luxury of the Panamera. Springs, wheels, exhaust/headers and its a fun daily you can enjoy for years. Won't be as fast as M5 or CTSV obviously, but a good all around car. A couple pics of mine to help sway you.

View attachment 237013
View attachment 237015

Good luck.
Thanks for the feedback, very helpful. Really nice GSF, if you want to sell offensively cheap, let me know. I never really paid much attention to the newest generation Panamera till now, the 17+ seem to have eliminated the worst body lines and the interior is phenomenal. Can't spend 100+ on one but wow, they are nice.

Random thoughts: As cool as the Focus RS looks on the exterior; I couldn't get over the interior. It just looks already-dated and cheap. There's quite a few Supra owners who have an IS-F as well, they really seem to love em.

I'm glad someone else mentioned the Chevy SS. Awesome cars. They sound glorious with exhaust. Then again, most of LS/ GM sounds pretty good. I would say that these check off a lot of boxes for a fun daily. Being rare is icing on the cake so at least if you decide to sell you probably won't take a loss.
I agree, I feel like I'd taking a considerable loss in a couple years if I sold the RS. It seems a lot of dealers are getting stuck with them for a long time, I'm sure you could steal one at this point but you'd likely pay for it later. Likely why I'm not already driving one.

Reason #486 not to make your street car a race car and remove creature comforts such as A/C , makes it much easier to come up with reasons to sell. I will not be recommending another vehicle to you as I represent the % of supra owners that don't forget why I own the cars despite not driving them hardly. Kids are temporarily small and will grow up and leave you for college/job/kids of their own. The supra will always be there for you, never complains either. ba humbug.

Matt
I'm genuinely shocked that it took almost a week for someone to complain, I think that has to be some kind of SF record? But yeah removing the AC was one of many reasons and it was pretty far down on the list. I didn't want to turn my car search thread into a debate on Supras, which is why I left it a bit vague purposely. Selling wasn't a decision I took lightly, nor something that I feel was spontaneous, I think I could write a small article on why I sold, which I still might. You're right, it's a cop out and easy excuse to blame the kids, but the truth is much, much more complicated.
 

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NY56637
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I'm genuinely shocked that it took almost a week for someone to complain, I think that has to be some kind of SF record? But yeah removing the AC was one of many reasons and it was pretty far down on the list. I didn't want to turn my car search thread into a debate on Supras, which is why I left it a bit vague purposely. Selling wasn't a decision I took lightly, nor something that I feel was spontaneous, I think I could write a small article on why I sold, which I still might. You're right, it's a cop out and easy excuse to blame the kids, but the truth is much, much more complicated.

It almost gets a little philosophical here, I understand life happens and sometimes you have to sell. But I think that people often forget why they bought or want a Supra and then try to find a replacement. There's tons of threads here with people selling only to regret it later. Personally I went full Jekyll and Hyde getting the tool for the job and that's it.

I have my Supra which serves as the fast/ fun car that gets taken out on occasion. Then I have the Corolla serving as the practical eco-comfort on the commute; 33+mpg, it's comfortable, reliable, and has everything I need while being cheap to maintain. The Supra sits in the garage a good majority but that also allows me to preserve it, work on it, and appreciating in value is only bonus points. Ultimately makes it more special when I take it out and I don't always need or want to go that fast to pick up coffee and go to work right? I'm very rarely in my DD thinking "man I wish this thing was way faster and got like 10mpg".

Take the F10 M5 for example:
  • Realistically about a $45k-$50k car (used)
  • 15 mpg
  • Insurance cost
  • BMW maintenance especially if it's a DD
  • Will depreciate in value (MSRP was like $90k+)

All said and done, you will be losing way more money than owning a fast Supra and DD'ing a practical "regular" car. Why not get a decent $25k-$30k dd that you can drive everyday and save the money?

And I'm not trying to be argumentative at all. Of course I don't know your financial situation so these are just my thoughts. Good luck on your search either way!
 

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Moderator, l337 M0d3r4t0r
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If you go ISF get 10 or above... The suspension was too bouncy and stiff for DD but was soft on the track so it was the worst of both worlds. The power was timid IMO. I've considered my self all the cars you are talking about but couldn't get sold on any of them.

I think the only 2 cars I have on my list right now is the Tesla Model 3 performance or 2017 Alpha Gulia Quadafologio. The alpha blows the Model 3 away in looks, but the Model 3 appeals in every other way for the cost to own, reliability and tech features.

For the cost of a 2017 alpha @ 50-60k, it's not bad but the depreciation is going to be very steep vs the Tesla which will probably be not bad at all.
 

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It almost gets a little philosophical here, I understand life happens and sometimes you have to sell. But I think that people often forget why they bought or want a Supra and then try to find a replacement. There's tons of threads here with people selling only to regret it later. Personally I went full Jekyll and Hyde getting the tool for the job and that's it.

I have my Supra which serves as the fast/ fun car that gets taken out on occasion. Then I have the Corolla serving as the practical eco-comfort on the commute; 33+mpg, it's comfortable, reliable, and has everything I need while being cheap to maintain. The Supra sits in the garage a good majority but that also allows me to preserve it, work on it, and appreciating in value is only bonus points. Ultimately makes it more special when I take it out and I don't always need or want to go that fast to pick up coffee and go to work right? I'm very rarely in my DD thinking "man I wish this thing was way faster and got like 10mpg".

Take the F10 M5 for example:
  • Realistically about a $45k-$50k car (used)
  • 15 mpg
  • Insurance cost
  • BMW maintenance especially if it's a DD
  • Will depreciate in value (MSRP was like $90k+)

All said and done, you will be losing way more money than owning a fast Supra and DD'ing a practical "regular" car. Why not get a decent $25k-$30k dd that you can drive everyday and save the money?

And I'm not trying to be argumentative at all. Of course I don't know your financial situation so these are just my thoughts. Good luck on your search either way!
On point Logan!
 

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Discussion Starter #36
It almost gets a little philosophical here, I understand life happens and sometimes you have to sell. But I think that people often forget why they bought or want a Supra and then try to find a replacement. There's tons of threads here with people selling only to regret it later. Personally I went full Jekyll and Hyde getting the tool for the job and that's it.

I have my Supra which serves as the fast/ fun car that gets taken out on occasion. Then I have the Corolla serving as the practical eco-comfort on the commute; 33+mpg, it's comfortable, reliable, and has everything I need while being cheap to maintain. The Supra sits in the garage a good majority but that also allows me to preserve it, work on it, and appreciating in value is only bonus points. Ultimately makes it more special when I take it out and I don't always need or want to go that fast to pick up coffee and go to work right? I'm very rarely in my DD thinking "man I wish this thing was way faster and got like 10mpg".

Take the F10 M5 for example:
  • Realistically about a $45k-$50k car (used)
  • 15 mpg
  • Insurance cost
  • BMW maintenance especially if it's a DD
  • Will depreciate in value (MSRP was like $90k+)

All said and done, you will be losing way more money than owning a fast Supra and DD'ing a practical "regular" car. Why not get a decent $25k-$30k dd that you can drive everyday and save the money?

And I'm not trying to be argumentative at all. Of course I don't know your financial situation so these are just my thoughts. Good luck on your search either way!
By all means. I understand your mentality and agree. I've had the same thoughts which is why this is so difficult. There is still some possibility that I'll end up not selling my DD and buying another sports car. I've had more fun DDs in the past and I found that soon the allure wears off but they certainly weren't the level of automobile that an M5 is either. Like finding the dream woman (a freak in the sheets but lady in the streets), I'm trying to find a dream car that is comfortable and live-able through the week, but that I can still trash on and enjoy on the weekend. That being said, you're right, I'm struggling to get excited about any of the potential options. To be fair, I haven't driven any of them and my hope would be that when I do, my mindset would change. Unfortunately I don't have any of these options near by and will likely have to travel considerable distances to try them so I need to narrow the field because I simply can't get behind the wheel of all of them.

I've definitely found myself wandering and considering sports cars again which certainly gets me more excited BUT I'm just going to find myself in the same situation as the Supra if I'm not extremely selective about it. As I've said in the past, I loved my Supra and I'm extremely thankful I got to experience one but ultimately I love CARS. I love experiencing new cars and seeing what other cars bring to the table and there are many more cars I would like to own but I simply don't have the financial ability to own them all at the same time. Audi R8s are getting extremely reasonable, Am Vantage, Carrera/turbo, GTR, as much as I want to buy another two door it needs to be something that I can take on the occasional road trip, I can drive to work, I can fit car seats in, not necessarily DD but I'm not wealthy enough to justify owning a car that I put 500 miles a year on. Finding that car may be even harder than finding the fun daily. If anyone has any advice, I'm all ears.


If you go ISF get 10 or above... The suspension was too bouncy and stiff for DD but was soft on the track so it was the worst of both worlds. The power was timid IMO. I've considered my self all the cars you are talking about but couldn't get sold on any of them.

I think the only 2 cars I have on my list right now is the Tesla Model 3 performance or 2017 Alpha Gulia Quadafologio. The alpha blows the Model 3 away in looks, but the Model 3 appeals in every other way for the cost to own, reliability and tech features.

For the cost of a 2017 alpha @ 50-60k, it's not bad but the depreciation is going to be very steep vs the Tesla which will probably be not bad at all.
Thanks for the advice. Tesla are a thought that have gone through my mind but I'm just not sure I can get over the sticker shock yet and they seem fun at first, but I wonder how quickly that fades?
 

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JetFire
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It almost gets a little philosophical here, I understand life happens and sometimes you have to sell. But I think that people often forget why they bought or want a Supra and then try to find a replacement. There's tons of threads here with people selling only to regret it later. Personally I went full Jekyll and Hyde getting the tool for the job and that's it.

I have my Supra which serves as the fast/ fun car that gets taken out on occasion. Then I have the Corolla serving as the practical eco-comfort on the commute; 33+mpg, it's comfortable, reliable, and has everything I need while being cheap to maintain. The Supra sits in the garage a good majority but that also allows me to preserve it, work on it, and appreciating in value is only bonus points. Ultimately makes it more special when I take it out and I don't always need or want to go that fast to pick up coffee and go to work right? I'm very rarely in my DD thinking "man I wish this thing was way faster and got like 10mpg".

Take the F10 M5 for example:
  • Realistically about a $45k-$50k car (used)
  • 15 mpg
  • Insurance cost
  • BMW maintenance especially if it's a DD
  • Will depreciate in value (MSRP was like $90k+)

All said and done, you will be losing way more money than owning a fast Supra and DD'ing a practical "regular" car. Why not get a decent $25k-$30k dd that you can drive everyday and save the money?

And I'm not trying to be argumentative at all. Of course I don't know your financial situation so these are just my thoughts. Good luck on your search either way!

Good post I have my Supra and also a GS400 but also have a company car (17 Camry) which is great benefit for commuting. I'm at a point now where I want to replace the GS400 with a IS-F or a GTE swapped GS300 simply to have a 400HP Toyota sedan. The swapped GS300 would be the cheaper option so leaning towards that but also a big fan of the IS-F. Not exactly in same situation as OP I think it would be really hard to "replace" a Supra.
 

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Unless 2 door cars are completely out, 997TT.

If you must have a 'larger' car, consider a Porsche Macan GTS or Turbo (used). They are absolutely sensational to drive. I drove a late model Cayenne GTS earlier this year and it was a game changer in what SUVs are capable of.

You'll notice a theme in my recommendations...you need a Porsche now. :bigthumb:
 

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Consider a used S3.

4 doors, fast, fun, 4wd. A tune (from what I understand) changes the drivability/throttle response from "great" to "shockingly good"
 
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