[Chucky Doll]

I have a friend that really wants to buy a T78 turbo along with a VPC and supporting manifold. He is planning on running this turbo on stock fuel. I don't think this is a good idea. Here are his other mods: HKS TYPE R FMIC, HKS EVC 4 BC, BCC, Super AFC, 2-step, DP, and Drager Cat back. His car is a six speed. Honestly I think the car will only be capable of 12's on the boost that he will be able to run. Is this a waste of money. Every post their opinions b/c I'm going to show him this thread.

 

[supra178]

since your friend has already spend some big bucks why not just upgrade the fuel? it doesn't make any sense to me. I think your friend is playing with danger. If I had gone that far, I might as well upgrade the fuel system. I don't like to take any chances.

supra178

 

[supra400hptt]

Doesn't make much sense to me either. That turbo can flow way more air than what the fuel sys can handle. As long as the boost is kept down it can be done but it's like buying a supra and never driving it fast. I'll probably get the T78 myself in Feb. I'm working on the fuel sys right now.

 

[gritsak]

ive got a t78 and running on stock fuel, but the only reason is because i dont have the money for an upgraded fuel system. another member chris bergman or something like that has a video of a mid 11 sec run on t78 and stock fuel. but to get a t78 for te sole purpose of using stock fuel is dumb, get a smaller turbo, one boost spike with a t78 and byebye engine.

 

[supra178]

it seems very difficult to keep the boost down when you have a T78. When there's a Viper reving at you in the next lane we'll see how long can you keep a low boost.

supra178

 

[ekool]

I think SP did 11.0's on stock fuel, in an auto. I dont see a problem going with stock fuel on a Greddy T78 (diff. between a REAL T78 and a Greddy T78) -- I recently ran [email protected] with a VERY small single turbo in my first and only pass at the track, on 1.33bar.. i have stock fuel, and this was at 3600 ft. elevation, the EGT's never went above 800 (pig rich, i know, the stock fuel curve is) -- so there is clearly more in the car. I would say you can easily run a mid 11' pass on drag radials without pushing the stock fuel.

 

[SupraStar94]

You are asking for trouble, it is a waste of money to be buying a single with no supporting fuel system. Sounds to me your friend is just buying the Single just to have one which makes no sense and it is rather foolish(no offense). Why not invest in some NOS? Surely you will be running the same numbers as your single with no fuel support if not better. The NOS is cheaper and you have less to worry about. If your friend doesn't have the money for the fuel support he has no business buying it. I am telling you how it is, talk some sense into this guy. You can go around and tell everyone you have a Single but so what? You won't get the full benefit until you have the fuel to go along with it. Save your money my friend and go with NOS.

 

[SupraStar94]

it seems very difficult to keep the boost down when you have a T78. When there's a Viper reving at you in the next lane we'll see how long can you keep a low boost.

supra178

Agreed. You are asking for trouble. Save your money.

 

[aznsupra]

tell your friend this...with the money he will be spending on repairing the engine after he blows it, he can buy a really good fuel system, but either way, its his money.

 

[mervinnn]

I think SP did 11.0's on stock fuel, in an auto. I dont see a problem going with stock fuel on a Greddy T78 (diff. between a REAL T78 and a Greddy T78)

What does this sentence mean? REAL T78?

 

[ekool]

A Greddy T78 (ie, the T78 in the Greddy single kit) is not a normal T78, in the T sense of the word of normal T turbos. Ie. A turbonetics T73 is bigger (much) then a Greddy T78.

Also, for those of you that claim that going single without fuel is stupid... please clarify?

I mean, putting down 550hp to the wheels on stock fuel seems to be like a decent enough thing to do? You arent talking about chump change here either.... an entire fuel system is going to run you about $3300 if you buy it from SP.. thats almost the cost of an RPS single kit.

SP sells their fuel system for $2k (maybee more, i'm not sure) and that does not include any fuel controller. So you'll be adding a VPC -$900, GCC -$250, perhaps a VPC wiring harness -$300.

Saying that just because you go single you are going to blow your motor doesnt make any sense. As with any upgrade (even on stock twins) you need to make sure that you have enough fuel for the job... no different then any other car or any other mod.

For those of you that suggested the NOS.. thats fine, thats a good suggestion. I cant get NOS locally, its a 1.5 hour drive to get it... not to mention the cost. Sure, its INITIAL cost is cheaper, but filling the bottle is expensive. Not to mention, I can drive to the next town and do WOT the whole way if i want.. the turbos not going to run out... but the bottle will. Just something to think about.

I think Cedric put down 550 with a small single and drove the car like that for over a year.... we all know Cedric as well, so we know his word is good. I'm also at high altitude, its harder to produce higher output here... So i would need a rather large single to even eclipse the stock fuel system.

I just ran 120 in the quarter on stock fuel, including stock FUEL CURVE, no GFORCE, no SAFC, no nothing. The EGT's PEAKED at 780 (egt in the collector, pre turbo) -- I think that with a few more tricks I can easily get 125mph out of it... perhaps more. 125mph is no joke in the quarter, and considering that it idles and runs like a factory supra... well, theres something to be said for that.

Anyway, to quote a commercial...

'think outside the box' -- just because its not the norm, doesnt mean it cant be done.

What does this sentence mean? REAL T78?

 

[mervinnn]

Hey ekool, thanks for clearing that up. Greddy uses Mitsubishi turbos don't they? Hmm, why get all confusing and name them with "T" then? Maybe for "t"urbine? Also.. in many of the Japanese Option videos I see guys using the T-88 34D turbo. What does the 34D part pertain to?? Bust size?

 

[Chucky Doll]

T78

the Greddy T78 with a stock fuel system is not going to beat my BPU++++ car w/o risking the engine. My car is due to be tuned in a few weeks after the installation/break in of my clutch. If people are going 12's on a big ass turbo that's nothing to be proud of. BPU cars with 75shot of NOS go low 11's consistent which cannot be said about the T78. By the way this car is daily driven, therefore most of the races will take place on the street.

 

[supra178]

Chucky Doll the Greddy T78 with a stock fuel system is not going to beat my BPU++++ car w/o risking the engine. My car is due to be tuned in a few weeks after the installation/break in of my clutch. If people are going 12's on a big ass turbo that's nothing to be proud of. BPU cars with 75shot of NOS go low 11's consistent which cannot be said about the T78. By the way this car is daily driven, therefore most of the races will take place on the street.

I agree with Chucky Doll. also to reply to ekool's statement about T78 with stock fuel system, i think each supra will be some what different. depending on how many miles how hard you drive, and if you even try to keep your car in a good condition.

for one thing i would not even think about putting any big turbo on my supra without a fuel system. i had my car about 2 years now. i know for a fact the last owner didn't even care about the supra. So the conclution is i would not even risk it.


supra178

 

[ekool]

Re: T78

Chucky doll, im not sure I understand your logic, can you please clarify for me?

If your car is BPU++++ and is making more power then a T78, then you too are at risk. This is very simple people. More power requires more air, which requires more fuel.

If you are making big power through other modifications (be it nitrous, or any other method) you NEED to supply fuel. The simple fact that putting a big turbo on a car doesnt mean you need more fuel. I dont understand what the confusion is. Chucky unless you have a fuel system, then I understand what you are saying.

Like i said earlier, and I stand by what i said. The mere fact that you are installing a Greddy T78 on your car doesnt mean that you have to absolutely put a fuel system on it. Is it reccomended? Yes. Is it required? No. Keep the boost below 18lbs and you'll probably be fine. You'll probably run mid 11's on street tires and you wont be maxing out your fuel system. Obviously, you need to take precaution by monitoring your air fuel, egt, knock, etc. But that goes without saying.

Also, as I said earlier.. to some of us, NOS is not an option. Some of us just plain dont like it either (me) -- and, in some races, NOS is not allowed. The idea that you can run low 11's with a cheap bottle of NOS isnt attractive to me. However, running low 11's on boost only does. Also... i doubt a car with stock twins and a small 75 shot would run low 11's at my altitude. Dont forget, altitude makes a huge difference.

My car is also driven on the street... and the idea of running out of NOS before a race is not my idea of fun. I'll take a turbo over NOS any day of the week. I dont think i'll find too many cars putting down 550 to the wheels at my altitude....

the Greddy T78 with a stock fuel system is not going to beat my BPU++++ car w/o risking the engine. My car is due to be tuned in a few weeks after the installation/break in of my clutch. If people are going 12's on a big ass turbo that's nothing to be proud of. BPU cars with 75shot of NOS go low 11's consistent which cannot be said about the T78. By the way this car is daily driven, therefore most of the races will take place on the street.

 

[gritsak]

Re: T78

the Greddy T78 with a stock fuel system is not going to beat my BPU++++ car w/o risking the engine. My car is due to be tuned in a few weeks after the installation/break in of my clutch. If people are going 12's on a big ass turbo that's nothing to be proud of. BPU cars with 75shot of NOS go low 11's consistent which cannot be said about the T78. By the way this car is daily driven, therefore most of the races will take place on the street.

what are you talking about? if the stock fuel maxes out at around 525-550 rwhp thats that. just becuase you have a t78 doesnt mean its gonna max out at 400 now. and just because you have stock twins doesnt mean that its gonna max out at 600 now. when fuel is up, the fuel is up. no matter if its a single turbo, or bpu. i agree that you shouldnt buy a single turbo unless you plan on doing fuel, especially a big one. but thats not to say it isnt possible

 

[Chucky Doll]

Ekool, I'm talking about street racing. Fuck the track b/c we dont car what people run at the track. Yes it's fun to see what you run but duplicating the same numbers on the street is everything. I'm in MD so is my friend. My Car is BPU++++ but needs to be tuned. Without a doubt my car WILL be well into the 11's on my BFG Comp T/A DR's. Add a 75shot which is small for the Supra and it will go low 11's. What I don't understand is that you come accross like you race your car everyday???? I race only on weekends and baby the car throughout the week. Some people have gone 11's using the T78 with stock fuel but others have gone 12's. You cannot argue the fact that the T78 is not a turbo intended for street racing! I wanted supra owners opinions to show him that the T78 is not the way to go when street racing. From light to light the race would be over before the turbo kicked in full blast. Let's say I just run my car on turbo alone Vs. my friends car with the T78 if he gets it. I will win. Why pay all that money to run 11's when you can do so on stock twins? He should go with the sp63 instead.

 

[AnArKey]

Just a word of advise. I have a T78 on stock fuel and have been keeping it at 17psi. I have a knock sensor, and its been going ape shit. I am taking it easy until I get alcohol injection on and tune the car with a wideband 02. So 18psi+T78+stock fuel may still meltdown.

 

[Chucky Doll]

AnArkey

Thanks for the info. This is what I'm looking for. He needs to know the risk and what all goes into it. The T78 is a badass turbo and the potential is crazy but if something goes wrong it's 2k for a new block plus labor and then he will still need to buy the fuel system.



QUOTE]Originally posted by AnArKey
Just a word of advise. I have a T78 on stock fuel and have been keeping it at 17psi. I have a knock sensor, and its been going ape shit. I am taking it easy until I get alcohol injection on and tune the car with a wideband 02. So 18psi+T78+stock fuel may still meltdown. [/QUOTE]

 

[ekool]

Anarkey, the first thing you need to do is find out if you are getting knock from running lean, or from not enough octane. They are two different things.

If you are running lean at 18psi, then you are either: putting some serious down to the pavement at low boost (which is good) or you have something wrong... bad injector, clogged fuel filter, failing pump, etc.

Chucky Doll... if you are trying to convince your friend that he must install a fuel system if he buys a T78, then thats your business. You asked for opinions, and some have been given to you. Gristak said exactly what i was trying to say, but he was slightly more blunt then I.

If you are asking wether an SP63 will be a better street turbo then a T78, that is a different story. I never read that before your last post, and I will agree with you on that. From stoplight to stoplight, that is going to be the best turbo. That turbo is good for high 10's according to Warren... thats faster then most people go.

Some people street race from 60+ roll, some from a stoplight.. some are interested in only track runs, etc. We cant answer these questions, as only you and your friend can... but I answered the question about requiring a fuel system with a T78.