Supra Forums banner

1 - 20 of 128 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,171 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I decided to make a new thread instead of having this info get "lost" in this guy's targa thread that I posted in:
http://supraforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=362956

Please understand (for your own benefit) that this is about as condensed as I can make this, especially since I unfortunately do not have pics from when I performed the fix :( It may be a little tedious to read, but take it all in slow and then read again while you go out and tackle the job.
So, if you don't want to read all of this and would prefer "cliff's notes".....then just continue enjoying the smelly water in your carpet :D

Meanwhile, if anyone ever wants to add pics to this thread as they perform this, I think it would help out plenty for others to apply this written info.
I'll be happy to edit and or add comments to any pics that may get posted in here in the future.

A true fix:
I've perfected this fix and performed it on 2 seprerate mkiv's. If all checks out, and all tips are followed, you will be done sealing water out of the car and crucial areas of the gutter. The goal is to keep water from entering under the targa, beyond the gasket and into the interior of the car. A chain is only as strong as it's weakest link.
I discovered the water's entrance points by process of ellimination, while sitting in my car with a flashlight, interior removed and during a rain storm. That's how I found the various entrance points of the water, and learned to approach them seriously.
I did this to my car about 2yrs ago or more. I have not had a single leak on my carpet ever since. It holds up fine without a car cover and during any rain storm. After applying the dynamat adhesive backing where I advise, you'll see how little toyota spent on truly sealing down the gasket. So, that's what we're fixing.
These corners of the roof/A-pillar are very sensitive to the leak points discussed down below, but the dynamat adhesive works perfectly since it's pliable (sp?) and doesn't dry hard or messy like a glue. And since it's not a permenant adhesive for the gasket, it can be repositioned as needed throughout the fix!


THE PROCEDURE:

Forget the targa all together for this info. The targa is not at fault, unless you clearly see water dripping on your seat from the window + targa + A-pillar junction.
If you have water collecting on your floor by the kick panel, then read on!

Have a scrap piece of Dynamat on hand. For those that may not know, this is found at car audio stores for sound deadening. But you only need a scrap size piece.
You'll need to peel chunks of the rubbery backing and squeeze them together into thin strings....they'll be layed out along the crucial points of the roof corners that are lacking sufficient sealant from Toyota. This is what will keep the water out, instead of using messy glue that you can't reposition. It is perfect because it's easy to reshape/reposition as you work to cure the leaks. This is a very nice advantage over glues!

Remove interior headliner: sun visors, map lights etc. Get it all out of the way and remove the 2 nuts in each corner that bolt the seal to the body.

Remove the "eyebrows" in the gutter system.

Remove that 1 long seal that runs the length of the windshield ---> along the entire A-pillar, from 1 side mirror to the other. Gently pull the seal free from the car by whatever glue it has. Completely expose the corners where the drainage system is located. It will be a little tough to remove the gasket from where the studs go through the body ---> gently work in that corner, pulling the gasket free while pushing against the studs from in the car with a blunt tool...simultaneously "chipping away" at the sealant holding it down. I used the back of a large screwdriver to press against the studs while working the glue loose.

Now collect your Dynamat backing and squeeze and roll it all together into a single long string, about 8-12in long (you can stick it to your windshiled where you can easily grab more pieces)......


THE CORNERS OF THE ROOF, IN THE GUTTER SYSTEM IS WHERE YOU'LL BE CONCENTRATING ON SEALING UP:
This is where Toyota got lazy with the sealant/glue.....the gasket itself is very well designed and not particularly at fault. By the way, a new gasket is under $100 (If I remember correctly) if you think you need a new one for this job.
**The Dynamat adhesive must be layed out along the entire perimeter of the drainage system (NOT the entire gutter system in the roof, but the small plastic assembly in each corner that the clear drainage hose connects to).
**Lay the adhesive along the sheetmetal edge that the headliner hangs onto!!! Again, we're worried about the corners; along where the drainage is at each corner of the windshield....not along the entire length of the roof's gutter.
**Lay the adhesive in a circular fashion, ON THE GASKET ITSELF, immediately around the hole in the gasket contacts the hole in the plastic drainage piece ---> the hole in the gasket and plastic that feeds to the clear drainage hose. ***Squeeze this piece of dynamat adhesive into a more thin strip so that it's not so bulky and clogs the drainage hose during reassembly (it WILL/CAN happen).
**Squeeze a few more short (1/2 inch), skinny pieces of dynamat adhesive and lay them around ALL of the holes that the "eyebrows" bolt to (3 screws for the eyebrows I think). The adhesive will seal the screws and their holes from water.
**Lay a string of dynamat adhesive onto the gasket, around the base of the studs that bolt the gasket to the car.

Reassembly:
Once all of the dynamat adhesive is in place, you can begin installing the gasket at the corners. You MUST pay attention to the hole in the gasket that connects to the drainage hose. This pathway must remain open so that water doesn't back up in the gutter and leak into the car by way of the other discussed locations. I actually chased my tail over this for a little while....

Once the gasket is pressed down into position, install the 2 nuts are bolted on snug. If all is good, continue installation by pushing firmly onto the gasket so that you mash the dynamat adhesive tight and flat....this helps the gasket sit down fluch where it needs to be.
Again, you need to test the drainage hose to confirm that the path is clear (it clogs easier than you'll think upon reassembly). Use a cup of water and simply pour some into the gutter, while watching that it easily passes down the clear drain hose in the car.
A tip is that you can use a round tool (like a medium sized allen wrench or equivelant) to stick through the gasket's drain hole while installing the gasket along with the 2 nuts. This will help keep the dynamat adhesive from squeezing into the drainage hole in the gasket and plastic drain hole etc. while you're pressing the gasket into position.
Once assembled, you can even peel back the exterior portion of the gasket in order to peek at the hole and see if the adhesive has squeezed into the hole.

One final spot for adhesive:
**As we all know, when the targa is bolted on, you can still see some of the gasket......you can peel back this small portion of the gasket (but just in the corners) and lay a skinny bead of dynamat adhesive along the top region of that plastic drainage assembly ---> right under where you can see the gasket when the targa is bolted on.

**perform ^this^ last bit of Dynamat adhesion with the targa OFF the car.

This last bit of protection will keep any water from even beginning to enter the gutter at the corners; avoiding more possibilities of a leak to even begin.


Now continue reinstalling everything, while making sure the gasket is placed back into it's track all the way down to the side mirrors.
You will need a thin, blunt tool to help push the gasket's edges that fit into these "tracks". Once done, gently tug on the gasket all along, making sure that it's fully installed.

Points to understand/remember:
The ORIGIN of the leaks are in these corners of the gutter system of the roof.....water SPECIFICALLY enters the car's interior by any number of these detailed locations:
1) The screws that bolt the "eyebrows" in the gutter.
2) Once water is in the gutter and under the gasket, it gets backed up and drips into the interior along the sheetmetal edge that the gasket slips onto ---> is also exact sheetmetal edge that the headliner slips onto when you reinstall it to the gutter (opposite the clear drainage hose).
3) At the gaskets studs where they enter through the sheetmetal.
4) At the extreme corners of the gasket/A-pillar ---> right past the little plastic drainage assembly for the clear hose, as the gasket makes it turn in the direction of the side mirrors.

Final thought or FYI:
The reason water is found on the floor by the kick panel and hatch release is because the water gets into the sheetmetal above the headliner, gets redirected to the side/corner of the A-pillar (lowest point of roof), drips into the plastic interior trim, carried down to the side of the dash, behind the kick panels and then onto the floor at the hatch release.

sean
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,171 Posts
Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
95jza80tt said:
this should be put in the mkiv faq

Yes I agree (because it works 100%), but the only reason I've never submitted this idea to the mkiv.com "authorities" is because pics weren't taken when I did this to my car a couple of years ago, and it can be difficult to "sell" a tedious read such as this one.
I didnt have a digital camera at the time and when you get caught up in a job, it's hard to stop and run to the store for a disposable camera, yada yada... :)


In any case, I'll repeat myself and admit that this is/can be a tedious read for those who've never explored this part of the car before, therefore not having any mental, visual aids to refer to.
But I promise that if this info is dealt with during the procedure, it will all make much more sence and all of the key points can be put together for a successful fix ;)

I've already been on the wild goose chases for these A-pillar targa leaks, and as time went on I got more and more aggressive in dealing with it. My motivation was that these cars don't leak when they're new, so why should they leak today?
I have to say that the Dynamat adhesive backing was somewhat of a breakthorugh also. It's extremely user friendly...which is great for tackling a chore like this. It doesn't dry up on you, causing you to rush the job, and it can be removed and repositioned....all without loosing any of it's adhesive properties!!

Once again, whoever goes out and fixes their leak, please add pics to this thread since I dont see myself needing to do a fix like this anytime soon on anyone's mkiv.

My car has been 100% dry for the past 2yrs or so. Figuring out the origin of the leaks and creating a fix was the hard part....now I encourage you guys to fix yours, as the reward of a dry carpet in a thunderstorm is awesome :D
 

·
Highway Demon
Joined
·
2,869 Posts
man i wish you lived closer to me hahah i have a minor leak on the driver side at the a-piller for the moment.. after installing new taraga seals and using sealants and such to try to seal everything i can.. i think i might be making the flaw that you mentioned.. to avoid sealing the drainage hole, but i just speculate that it might be the cause for my leak at the moment.. you mention over and over again the use of the dynamat adhesive.. is it the same or similar to the 3m black caulking strips?

Brian
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,171 Posts
Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
95jza80tt said:
man i wish you lived closer to me hahah i have a minor leak on the driver side at the a-piller for the moment.. after installing new taraga seals and using sealants and such to try to seal everything i can.. i think i might be making the flaw that you mentioned.. to avoid sealing the drainage hole, but i just speculate that it might be the cause for my leak at the moment.. you mention over and over again the use of the dynamat adhesive.. is it the same or similar to the 3m black caulking strips?

Brian

Yes, i found that I was blocking the drain hose after using the adhesive backing and pressing the gasket into postion to bolt it back down. I chased my tail a few times before I realized what the problem was.
That's why I started using a tool (allen wrench I think) to keep the gasket's drain hole open to the clear hose..... I bolted the gasket down and then poured some water into the gutter. If it drained slow, or not at all, I knew the adhesive squeezed into the gasket's hole.
And so as I got closer to perfecting it all, I simply would peel the gasket back (the little portion that you still see when the targa is bolted on the car) to visualize the hole from above, and at that point I would simply use a small blunt tool to press any remaining excess adhesive out of the way of the hole.....some adhesive I needed to pick out and continue pressing and shaping the hole for patency.


Your description of caulking strips sounds like it would be very similar to the Dynamat's backing. I dont know 100% if I've ever seen what you're talking about, but if it has any properties like the dynamat that I've described, then I say give it a try. It just so happened that I had a spare scrap of dynamat sitting in my garage, and as I was trying to fix my leak, the scrap caught my eye.....and the rest is history :D
The caulking strips should be tacky, and not dry hard that you can't go back and manipulate. It should also be somewhat soft so that it doesn't fight the gasket during installation. You want to be able to overpower the strips with the positioning of the gasket.


For your problem, I would say to remove your headliner and leave the gasket in full mounted position. Then test with a cup of water or a rainstorm. Let the water work the gutter for a minute or two and wait to locate the exact entry point. With the headliner removed, the idea is to locate the EXACT and INITIAL entry point into the car's interior.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,171 Posts
Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
In case I haven't mentioned this yet:

Yes, if the gutter is backed up or draining really slow, during a rain storm it can fill and then enter through the eyebrow screw holes, and/or it can leak over the top edge of the gutter's sheetmetal (from seaping under the gasket) and into the interior ---> the portion that I described earlier as "opposite the drain hose".

Water should not be underestimated....it will travel where it wants to travel, regardless if we think it's unlikely or not!


Also: When testing the gutter and drain hose, when the fix is properly performed you will see that the water will easily flow into the clear drain hose. And the gutter should empty fast.
If anything is slow moving, then something's not as perfect as it can be!
When i was done, it flowed like a mad river :D
Standing water will find the next easiest place to travel.....into the interior eventually.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,171 Posts
Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
Yet another detail that should at least be acknowledged:

The last test that should be performed is with the targa bolted on the car. Notice that the front edge of the targa will very slightly pull down on the gasket from the downward torquing of the targa mounting bolts. This very slight tug on the edge of the gasket's exterior edge is enough to allow water to seap into the gutter system, underneath the gasket (actually, it would probably seap in there regardless).
If you pull the gasket out after a decent rain, you will see that water gets completely under the gasket. You may even find some minor rust in the bare gutter like I did....

This is the outermost edge that I briefly mentioned somewhere in the first post. It's immediately above the plastic drainage assembly in the gutter.
This is the last region of the gasket that should be sealed down with a skinny strip of adhesive, while connecting this strip to the lower portions elsewhere below the gasket.

Optional: This skinny strip can be continued completely from left to right corners, along the length of the windshield; connecting and further sealing the left and right corners from water entry at all. However, I didn't find a need to go this far....and I didn't because I wanted the gasket to lay natural against the car as the targa is torqued down. But in the corners, it serves a nice purpose.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,171 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
Your first time will likely take you a couple/few hours since you'll have to play around with the "what - when - where - how" of the whole process....and if you plan to take your time doing it right and being gentle with all the rubbers.

I worked at this time and time again until I pieced it all together through trial and error.
However, after perfecting it for myself, I did this exact process to a friend's car after I painted it all, and it took me maybe 1-2hrs and no sweat at all. But everything's always easier the second time around.
 

·
aKa Blk96SupraTT
Joined
·
3,866 Posts
blkturbo! said:
Forget the targa all together for this info. The targa is not at fault, unless you clearly see water dripping on your seat from the window + targa + A-pillar junction.

What if i think this is my problem? Because when it rains and leaks into my cabin it always soaks up my seats. Everytime it rains i gotta cover my seats with a bag.
 

·
Garage Queen Club
Joined
·
2,822 Posts
1 cup of water after the job may not be enough. I would seriously run a hose over the roof for about 10 minutes. I had attempted a similar job and found no leaks but only when running a "thick" film of water of the room (open hose spout). That more than simulates rain. Once you bolt on the roof, you actually change the gasket positioning slightly, enough to open up a previously sealed spot.

I'de like to see some photos for ideas?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,171 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
dre99gsx said:
1 cup of water after the job may not be enough. I would seriously run a hose over the roof for about 10 minutes. I had attempted a similar job and found no leaks but only when running a "thick" film of water of the room (open hose spout). That more than simulates rain. Once you bolt on the roof, you actually change the gasket positioning slightly, enough to open up a previously sealed spot.

I'de like to see some photos for ideas?

No, the "cup of water" is to be poured INTO the gutter of the gasket to specifically test the gutter's drainage system after you've performed the tricks with the Dynamat's adhesive backing.

And as far as checking with the roof on, and simulating real-world...you simply cannot beat sitting inside the car during a rain storm, with the interior removed, and while using a flashlight to shine up into all the tight spots you'll see once the headliner is removed. I've tested with a wide-open hose before, with and without a nozzle on it...and I've been "tricked" time and time again. Again, nothing at all prooves to be good simulation. Remove the headliner and pray for a good rain.

Trust me, I WISHHHH I had pics to show you guys all this tedious info. Because this shit works 100%...just gotta get to it and do it. I didn't have a camera on me at the time I did all this trial and error. On and off, I spent at least a year chasing the exact entrance points of the water and figuring out good solid techniques to sealing them up.

I'll see if I can do this fix to a couple of mkivs this Aug, and take plenty pics for this thread. In the meantime, please bear with this pic-less write-up :D It's worth it to only you, not me......my roof is perfectly fine even after more than a year. And we get rain storms down in here louisiana :D
 

·
Garage Queen Club
Joined
·
2,822 Posts
No, your absolutely right. Remove the interior, put on the roof, and get under a rain storm (or have someone drench the roof in water). It is the best way to find those leaks while your inside. Good tip.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,171 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
Blk96SupraTT said:
What if i think this is my problem? Because when it rains and leaks into my cabin it always soaks up my seats. Everytime it rains i gotta cover my seats with a bag.
If it's not collecting on your driver's side floor (at/near the hatch release), and it's only getting on your seats, then no, it's not coming in from the windshield corner where this write-up is dedicated to.

If it falls straight to your seats, then it'c oming more from the window-to-targa mating surfaces. The door's windows tend to rub wear marks into the targa's seal and could be part of the cause. When you find water on your seat, are you also finding it dripping down your door's window? Apparently, the mating surfaces of the targa gasket and the door window are "weak". The easiest way to begin weeding this out would be to spend $35ish bucks on a new targa seal for that side and go from there.
The only downside to that is by replacing that targa gasket, you'll most likely (I'm tempted to say definitely) disturb the gasket-mating surfaces even more....requiring further trial-and-error positioning of the new gasket.

Take comfort that none of this is impossible though.....as I'm very proud to say that I beat the shit out of all my targa-associated leaks 100%.
You'll just need some patience and persistance. But it did help me a lot thought that I had worked in bodyshops for 8yrs+, and had some experience with dicking with seals before, and understanding how they pull off and mount onto the car.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,171 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
dre99gsx said:
No, your absolutely right. Remove the interior, put on the roof, and get under a rain storm (or have someone drench the roof in water). It is the best way to find those leaks while your inside. Good tip.

:D Don't forget......real rain beats a hose everytime. Real rain will never lie to you like a hose can do/will.
I have no idea why though....maybe God can answer that one :D I just know I've been teased and heckled by a hose more than twice, lol.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,171 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
I'm going to visit some Northeastern guys this Aug. I'll ask them if they need any leaks fixed while Im there....to take pics.
 
1 - 20 of 128 Posts
Top