I just bought two liters of V160 juice, about 32 a bottle, some like RP syncromax but I will stick with the oem stuff for now.

 

$90 for peace of mind is quite inexpensive. V160 Fluid and sleep good at night.

 

I agree. Trying to save $60 every 60,000 miles is not worth risking a $3,000 transmission.

For most people 60,000 miles will be at least 5 year. That's only $12/yr.

Later, Steve

 

i use RP synchromax and change trans oil every 10,000 kilometers. (bit frequent but it smells like burnt poo everytime so i do it)

shifts better than it did when i bought the car which probably had ancient v160 oil in it, and shifts like a dream ever since. (2 years and counting)

 

Adam,

I have heard from other users of the RP Synchromax that the shifting felt better also.

I will probably buy the V160 juice. I do however hate being stupid about over paying. Peace of mind is important to me, like others here have said when broken down it is not that much to pay per year.

Has anyone heard of the Exxon Mobil alternative ?? It just seems odd that a unique fluid would be made for so few cars using it.

 

OP, I wrote the original quote about the Toyota Getrag spec'd fluids. The Esso fluid is no longer produced but it was just generic Dexron II. I have 128K miles on my car and it has not seen the V160 fluid since about when it was at 60K, so 68K on other stuff. I have owned the car since new so I know what fluid has been in there for its entire life. It is currently running Royal Purple Syncromax but it has had Amsoil Syncromesh and Mobil 1 ATF in the past. I really didn't do it to save money, just that I have more confidence in synthetics than dino oil. To be quite honest I have never noticed much difference between any of them. They all came out nice and clean when I drained them. BTW, the only fluid ever documented as causing problems in the V160 is Redline D-4 which causes swelling of the shift centering bushing due to too much seal swell additive.

 

as with anything there is a reason that toyota states their fluid.

i refuse to advocate anything other than toyota v160 fluid because i havent seen any proof yet that anything else is just as safe.

however we do see lots of cicumstantial evidence pointing to that-- if we look at how many people are running for example RP synchromax, and if they have problems, and milage etc.
but already ive said too much.

the reason the v160 hates certain oils is because they may contain some additives that will swell certain oil seals and/or critical rubber components.
i read that one time and as i understand it was directly stated by a employee from Getrag. in regards to a question someone had emailed them about the reasoning for oil.

you cant go wrong with the toyota v160 oil. i think thats about all we know for sure.

the price difference isnt going to kill anyone.
especially if you consider how long it stays in the transmission for. and how important your transmission is.

 

Manual 6-speed V160/161 Gearbox
Stock = Toyota V160 oil (PART No. 08885-01306)
Capacity 1.8l's when dry
Toyota V160 Oil (comes in 1L cans - require 2 cans)
Alternative:
Esso Dextron D21065
Royal Purple SynchroMax
BMW oil called MTF-LT-1 or LT-2
Castrol Transmax Z - Feedback required from testers
Mobil ATF 220 - Feedback required from testers
I recommend you stick with stock but in recent times this has been hard to get hold of, so it's the Esso now...
Interval = 2 Years / 30,000miles depending on use/power levels
---------------------------

I've just filled up with the BMW stuff as that was the only thing available here. Did the oil seal replacements, so if I see any leaks over the next few years, we know that there is something about other than V160 oil not being good for the seals.

 

I just went through this same predicament. In the end after researching, i could not find any solid evidence supporting buying anything but the V160 fluid. So for piece of mind i am sticking to the V160 fluid until i find evidence that another fluid outperforms v160 fluid. But how many trannys have you heard of that have exploded or malfunctioned from the stock fluids that are sold by toyota??

 

A better question might be. If this is indeed a special run of fluid made specifically for the V160, how long before there is none to be purchased ?

 

i went from OEM fluid to RP Synchromax.

have had no problems. dident notice a change in the shifts.

everything still feels the same. have about 10k on the RP Synchromax

 

I just put the Royal Purple in too, I don't think I noticed much difference in the shifting, but I didn't really try notice if there is a difference.

Toyota doesn't make the Getrag anyways, so you won't have to only Toyota Fluid.
I think the ESSO fluid is just some average old technology fluid anyways. Using the Toyota brand fluid can give you peace of mind though. As yes, they recommend it.

Many people who have suped up other cars for many many years like myself, 20 years plus, have typically replaced conventional fluids with synthetic fluids for a reason.

Many of the know how guys with years of experience, don't go putting conventional motor oils in their car as recommended by the manufacture. So why do you think this is?
I put better brake fluids, rear gear fluids, transmission fluids, engine oils, batteries, brake pads, tires, ect in my cars. This is OK as long as you meet or exceed the OEM requirements.

So, yes, the fluids do need to meet a minimum requirement, exceeding the requirement is usually not a problem and many times beneficial.

 

is the v160 fluid non synthetic?
i was gonna talk about that a bit earlier in this thread but i wasnt sure if its non synthetic or not.
i do know that synthetic oil has superior physical properties though and is more predictable.

i been raping my trans hard with like 550ft lbs of torque 24 psi daily tune, for the past 10,000 kilometers and bpu & milder apu for the other 15,000+ kilometers.
not 24/7 rape but i definitely drive spirited, and often.

still zero leaks or problems/issues.

i honestly believe that the reason v160 fluid is required is because of the mentioned rubber seal swelling. and i also believe the additives that are to be avoided are NOT PRESENT in rp synchromax.

you cant say the same for some other gear oil like redline.

and even though i keep talking about rp i dont wanna convince anyone to switch to it.
maybe im just lucky

[edit] bonus disclaimer: do lots of research before you choose to use non v160 fluid. theres at least a few more threads on this forum dedicated to this arguement.

 

I don't know if anyone will be able to know if the OEM fluid is synthetic.
Maybe there is some info in a MSDS for it.

Maybe it was back in the 80's, early 90's, people didn't want to put synthetic motor oils in the cars because of claimed oil leaks, or oil leaking past the piston rings. I don't think I had that problem back then, but maybe it was true.

Several magazines did dnyo runs after changing all the fluids to synthetic and they claimed a few horse power gain.

Getrag makes transmissions for many other hig performance cars, so maybe there is something to be learned from them, but it still isn't the exact same transmission.

Like someone posted above, companies such as BMW use a Getrag and have their recommended fluids.

 

Well, who knows what all fluids were around in 1993, or even 1998. So of course, the special toyota fluid is the only thing recommended. Even if there were other alternatives that were much cheaper, why would they tell you? Everything in this world revolves around one thing, and thats money. Why pass up a good chance where you can make some by saying the simple words "this is the only thing that works"

 

part of me thinks i should have uncovered a problem with royal purple by now, after almost 30,000 kilometers of pleasure driving, drag racing, lots of dyno hours, highway pulls, 8300 rpm 24 psi shifts.

 

Here's my problem with the V160 fluid... most of it has been on shelves for 5+ years... I bought 2L last year, and the production date on the oil was 2003...

does it go bad? I don't know, but I've since started using the RP, and frankly the car is quieter and shifts better, and I drive my supra more than probably 95% of the owners on this board, this past year I did 22k miles with RP fluid, I've recently changed it and it came out looking as good as it went in.

this whole paranoia about V160 fluid is just people spending money for peace of mind, and that's okay - I'm not advocating that you don't do that - just saying that in my mind lubrication technology has come a LONG way since 1992, and to suggest an oil that has probably been sitting on the shelf for 5 years is better than a new synthetic seems silly.

Do whatever makes you comfortable, but I can tell you with out a doubt that RP synchrmax works great, and has caused no problems. I also know guys that have had synthetic ATF in the trans too.

The argument that "there is a reason toyota used the fluid they did" just doesn't hold water. Toyota found the cheapest fluid they could find that fit the requirements of the transmission they selected... This fluid very likely cost toyota 1-2$L at the very most. Anyone who thinks an OEM manufacturer does anything other than select the cheapest product that meets their requirements has too much faith in that manufacturer...

 

The argument that "there is a reason toyota used the fluid they did" just doesn't hold water.

i agree with your whole post but i just need to clarify that when i said that (assumining you are referring to me saying that. im pretty sure i did say that anyway),
i mean that there was a reason that they state that fluid.

as far as i know that reason is that if you "dont use it" you could swell some oil seals/rings in the synchros or some other part of the transmission that i cant recall, and it will cause problems over time.

so with that said, it was 16 or 17 years ago that toyota made this claim and i think it would be naive to refuse to accept potentially successful alternatives.
especially if the v160 oil isnt even synthetic oil.

its indeniable that synthetic oil COULD be far superior in such an environment.
heat cyling, oil change intervals, lubrication, cold start lube.

dunno if you guys notice but the v160 shifts like dog poo when its cold. and mine probably starts shifting nicer-faster than v160 oil users.
maybe my trans is just old but if i go fire the supra up and drive around the block immediately, it feels really notchy til it warms up.
now consider that synthetic oil could have superior lubrication when cold due to molecular chains bonding better.

i hardly know what im talking about but i know it makes some sense.

so i agree with you totally. i just dont wanna read on here one day that someone fucked their $5000 v160 because they read my post saying that i think v160 oil is crap and rp synchomax is the shit.

 

RP Synchromax user myself and I am happy with it About 4,000 miles in 4 years.

 

3 years here, about 4k miles. Awesome results

 

no probs with RP here

 

I have been yours RP syncromax for 3 years or so now with no issues.

 

I myself use syncromax and although I have prolly put 700kms on it since it was greatly imp[roved over the stock toyota fluid.. I had an issue with every once in awhile while taking off (at any speed) my car would slam out of first and pop into neutral.. So i figured since I hadn't swapped the tranny fluid I would give the RP a go (ive always had luck with RP).. Since then the car has never jumped out of gear and the shifts seem a lot smoother and overall way better experience.. I plan to continue to use RP snycromax and replace it yearly!!

 

I've also got rp synchromax in my v160.

 

I am using the Castrol Transmaxx here and felt no difference to the OEM stuff. And the manufacturer (Getrag) clearly says: ATFII oils!
Folks, only because ONE person who filled in the wrong soup we are all going nuts???? :dunno:
Just take plain ATF fluid or equivalent and call it a day. I would use the Transmaxx stuff again of course. Not only because it´s cheaper but because you barely get the V160 fluid anymore and I have a problem in spending money blindly for just a Toyota sticker on the bottle

 

For what it's worth, I asked GETRAG/Germany for their comment last night. The data sheets don't open on my computer but I attached them anyways.


(Attachment 1 LINK)
(Attachment 2 LINK)




Hello Rich,


as requested in your e-mail of yesterday (see below) please be informed as follows :

attached are 2 info sheets (same content) re. the oil which must be used for "GETRAG´s" V160 transmission as used in Toyota SUPRA Turbo and Non-Turbo variants.
Please take into consideration that ...
any other oil could cause problems e.g. with the shiftability, synchronisation, etc. and could - worst
case - lead to a malfunction or complete failure of the transmission (the vehicle).

All test we had done where using the Dexron II oil, so we have no test results showing the influence
of the Dexron III or any other oil like Redline MTL, etc.

As far as I understand the situation there are two possibilities:
1st: contact a Toyota dealer or shop and ask them for the Esso Dexron II oil
2nd: contact Esso asking them for the differences between the two oils, maybe they have some
recommendations

Please use never a non-approved oil-type in your gearbox; non-approved oil types could (not a must !)
cause malfunction or premature wear, etc. (damage of synchronizer rings, ...) for which we can not
and will not take any responsibility or warranty, etc.

Unfortunately GETRAG only approved the transmission oils as requested by Toyota. These oils were
approved together with our customer (Toyota) for standard engine applications (V160 and V161)
as designed by Toyota for the exclusive standard "street" usage.
If your car is tuned : tuned versions have neither been tested and thus automatically not approved as well,
nor would it make a lot of sense to test other oils for such applications as the required tests are quite
costly and - as they were not required by Toyota - they were never carried out by Toyota and/or ourselves.

I am very sorry, but as we have never run any tests with other oil types we could not give you any better
hint. As outlined below it could happen - FOR EXAMPLE - that bushings will "grow" dimensionally and
that this will influence the shiftability or even might result in a failure and accident.
Synchronizer units might also be affected quite badly (quick wear and tear) or even end in a malfunction/
accident, ... if the "wrong oil" will be used. Other unforeseen factors/malfunction might also happen.

>From a legal side I am sorry to inform you, but I expect you are certainly aware that legally we could not
take any responsibility for our transmission/s as long as they are used in a different application than the
one originally intended and jointly approved with our customer (Toyota).

Hope that this helps


Best regards
Gunnar Herre
G E T R A G

*********************************

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Hofmann, Sabine Im Auftrag von von Watzdorf, Henning
Gesendet: Dienstag, 7. Dezember 2010 10:28
An: Herre, Gunnar
Betreff: WG: Getrag V160 in a 1994 Toyota Supra

Hallo Herr Herre,

würden Sie sich bitte um die Mail kümmern?

Danke & Grüße
Sabine Hofmann

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Rich [mailto:*****@***************.com]
Gesendet: Montag, 6. Dezember 2010 19:16
An: NAJORK@getrag-ford.com; von Watzdorf, Henning
Betreff: Getrag V160 in a 1994 Toyota Supra

What fluid(s) does Getrag approve for use in the V160 Getrag installed in my 1994 Toyota Supra?

Please forward this to whomever is best qualified to answer.
Thank you!
-Rich





GETRAG Getriebe- und Zahnradfabrik Hermann Hagenmeyer GmbH & Cie KG •
GETRAG InnovationsCenter • Hermann-Hagenmeyer-Strasse • 74199 Untergruppenbach • Deutschland •
Kommanditgesellschaft mit Sitz in Untergruppenbach • Amtsgericht Stuttgart HRA 104271 •
Persoenlich haftende Gesellschafterin: GETRAG CH Beteiligungsgesellschaft mbH mit Sitz in Chur • Handelsregister Graubuenden •
Firmennr. CH-350.4.000.888-0 • Geschaeftsfuehrer: Dr. Robert Schwarz, Dr. Robert Martin Schwarz

 

So what Getrag says is: Use ATF Dexron II type of any sort, or am I that wrong?

 

Means they only tested one fluid type that Toyota requested and legally cant tell you that its ok to use any other type of fluid other than the fluid chosen by toyota for Getrag to test and approve.

I use RP in my v160 and have had 0 problems with it, and ride my car hard and put it away wet.

 

Just had a friend that works at toyota look up the Toyota Fluid for the v160.

Theres only 40 quarts left available to dealers.

For what its worth.

 

Well if all those are sold out I'd try the RP fluid, sounds like I sould of just bought the RP instead of toyota stuff, I'm all about smoother shifts overall feeling.

 

3k miles in 3 months on RP. Damn this trans is notchy the first 15-20 shifts! Can't imagine how bad it would be on the original Dextron II. Not concerned about it given the specifications the RP meets and exceeds compared to the Dextron II.