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Discussion Starter #1
I present this conundrum I am having.

Do I, or do I not purchase a set of track wheels, and if so, what the hell do I get?

At the moment, this guy is running the stock TT wheels, with Nitto NT01 255/40R17 up front, and 275/40R17 in the back. Brakes are stock calipers with hawk HT10 pads, and some slotted stoptech rotors.

Not going to lie, the setup is pretty good. I never get brake fade during the weekend including the last 10/10ths event at Putnam (using Motul 600).

The thing is that I think it can get better. If you take a look at this youtube video,
, you can see where it all went wrong at the 2:21 mark (tire marks only, car is safe). This was more my fault than anything as I was being a little over-aggressive chasing a Viper.

My thoughts are that I could use a little more meat around the corners. In addition to the additional tire widths, my fat ass could use a little rotational mass reduction in the form of lighter wheels. Finally, I could step up and get a bigger brake kit to slow the beast.

I'd love to get the opinion of those whom have made the upgrade, and answer the two simple questions:

1) Should I?
2) If Yes to answer 1), what should I get?

Please remember these will strictly be track wheels, and visual aesthetics are on the lower end of my care spectrum.

Thanks!
 

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Its hard to compromise with a street car you want to track. First you should find a nice set of wheels that can accommodate larger tires. You're not driving a Viper so you likely wont fit 335s in the rear. What power level are you running at. And what's your suspension setup like
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Completely understandable with the street car aspect. I would safely assume that I am in the 395 hp to the wheel range. Dynoed @380 but have some minor BPU upgrades since.

Suspension setup is KW3 coilovers, titan sways, front titan adjustable upper control arms, whiteline end links (front), megan racing bits in the rear (traction arm & toe control arms).

Don't get me wrong, the car is not turning into any type of full-blown racecar (HPDE only), but I do quite enjoy beating some Porsche ass while out there.
 

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If I'm not mistaken, you'll need to switch out the front springs on the KWs. There's a thread in this section that goes over it and why you should. Should help a bit.
 

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OP, while I don't have any specific wheel brand/model suggestions, here's what I have for you:
  • Ditch the slotted rotors. Unless your pads require slots to remove outgas, you're just reducing rotor mass, and inviting cracks to start at the slots.
  • Get 18-inch wheels. 8.5" wide up front, 10" in the back. The lighter the better (although don't sacrifice quality). Put some nice (R-compound) Nittos or Toyo R888Rs on them. Put street-friendly and quiet Michelin tires on your 17-inch street wheels.
  • Don't worry about bigger brakes. The stock rotors and calipers are fine for even agressive HPDE. You've already upgraded the pads and fluid, which are the most important part of the brake system to upgrade on a Supra. (My 440rwhp Supra outbrakes most every car on the track, with just SRF fluid, Carbotech pads, and stainless steel braided brake lines.)
  • Upgrade to stainless steel braided brake lines. Your rubber hoses are 23 years old. They are the weak point in the system.
  • Count on 265s up front, and up to 295s on the rear, give or take a little depending on wheel offset and if your fenders are rolled or not.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I should have mentioned the SS brake lines have already been addressed, so I'm good there.

This is good info, and kinda the words of wisdom I was looking for. Since the brakes are pretty well set as stated, I can't see the return on investment from upgrading the wheels.

Yes, I can get a little wider on the rubber, but is 255 - 275 that much off from 265 -295 (aside from the mathematical difference)?

If anyone here is familiar with Putnam, I am in the 1:21 - 1:22 range (average driver at best) and the car weighs 3667 with my lard ass in the driver's seat. Could significant times be had with the the different setup?

Fenders are cut from previous owner.

Also, 17" nittos are pretty cheap all things considered
 

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Until I decided to "retire" this year, I ran stock wheels with R-compounds all the way. Kept stock rotors with Carbotech pads and good brake fluid. My typical boost on-track had me at 471 rwhp (as in sig) and I never felt like I ran out of rubber with 275 and 255 R-compounds. My car is totally street - kept every amenity that came with it!
 

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What am I missing in the video? I dont see any drama at 2:21.
 

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What am I missing in the video? I dont see any drama at 2:21.
Same here. If you consider that minor tweak at about 4:07 "drama", then you need to ride with some of the guys on here!
Question - Did you start out in HPDE on street tires? If so, did you really get to the limit on those before moving up to something stickier?
I ask, because it is good to learn the limits of your car on street tires - that let you know in advance of reaching their limits, before going stickier.
 

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He said it's at 2:21 and mentioned tire marks on the track, so don't look for a dramatic in-car view of a spin out or crash & burn.

Suprbd,
Since you're not fading your current brake setup, I wouldn't consider BBK's until you see a solid benefit since fade/overheating is the main limit of stock brakes. And looks...BBK's look nice.

I went thru very similar questions you're posing and heard the same concerns from many others before and during my search for answers. Driver experience is huge so always keep that as #1 mod to work on even if as you say, you're pretty fast on that track. I'm no expert and don't know that track and don't take it personally since I'm just trying to give constructive feedback, but even with no other traffic it didn't look like you were hitting the ideal lines as I see them so there could still be room for improvement. As far as wheels, I used my stock wheels thru a year of track days on street tires, then moved into various R compounds on stock wheels and bought a set of Veilside wheels for the street. Then a few years ago I had a pile of cash I wanted to spend before my kids/wife found it so I got a set of 18" CCW LM5's in 10"F and 11-1/2"R figuring that those are the widest wheels and tires I would ever want to fit. I'm still very happy with the wheel setup but unless you move into more serious competition than track days I have doubts if it's really a good value or priority. And if you do go in that direction, be careful since you can make the car more track worthy but lose a lot of street comfort and manners. I decided I didn't want to do that to my Supra, so no cage, no harness = no driving at 100%; other safety equipment at that level also adds cost, e.g., Hans device. Plus, as you say the cost of 17" tires is significantly less than wider 18's but also look/think ahead to what is happening with availability of certain tires in certain sizes to make sure you're aware if a tire is being phased out of production.

Do you have an oil cooler? Do you know how hot your oil gets? The sticky in this section has all the best first things to do so check those out.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Nick, thank you for the feedback sir. The video was not mine... but the only one I could find that shows were I went off.

No drama, just my skid marks left on the the track (not those I had to wash).

I've got the oil cooler, but I need some gauges. Yes, this is my 2019 purchase, which will be my next "what do I buy" post.

Honestly, from the feedback, I think it wise that I put money elsewhere, like Sears and a harness.

I appreciate the feedback, but I am most certainly not at the limit of the brakes since I can go round and round with no worries.

Appreciate the help, and looks like I'm gonna rock the stockers for some time to go.
 

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.. The video was not mine... but the only one I could find that shows were I went off.

No drama, just my skid marks left on the the track (not those I had to wash).

....
OK - this would have been nice to know before looking at someone else's video for 10 minutes.
I think you can go along way with stock wheels and brakes, using better pads and brake fluid!
I kept three sets of track wheels - one with street tires, one with dry R-compounds, and one with wet radials.
Guess where Nick's old stock wheels are now? In my trailer - waiting for me to get them up for sale!
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Can you let me know how much you would like for a set of your wheels? My old instructor down in Louisville is looking for a set.
 

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...Guess where Nick's old stock wheels are now? In my trailer - waiting for me to get them up for sale!
Lar,

I still have the original stock wheels from my car so the ones you bought are the extra set I had. As usual, I can't sell anything due to my pack-rat syndrome.
 

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Lar,

I still have the original stock wheels from my car so the ones you bought are the extra set I had. As usual, I can't sell anything due to my pack-rat syndrome.
This is me 100% haha, I cant get rid of anything off my car, 90% of the original parts are'nt and wont ever go back on it either :lol:


Anyways may I suggest Bridgestones Potenza RE71R tire, 200tw has amazing grip and is one of the leading wet R tires out there. Not terribly priced either. Im running 275s all the way around on my A70

The wheels I have are in my Avatar, SSR GTX01s. Its definitely a light wheel.
 

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Unless you're getting another set of TT wheels, I'd skip anything narrower than 9" in the front.

I would consider a set of 4 lightweight 17x9.5's all around and run a sticky 275/40 all around. This allows you to rotate front to rear and get a little bit more life out of the set of tires. Since going 'square' on tires can add some oversteer, I'd dial that out by going slightly stiffer on the front springs (KW's need this anyway for track work) and go to an NA rear swaybar, or even no rear swaybar. Enkei and Motegi make some relatively low cost options in Supra-friendly offsets (+38 to +45ish) for 17x9.5 all around, but some wheel designs will need a small spacer to clear the front calipers.

Personally, I'd switch out the Hawk pads for Carbotechs out of preference, refresh whatever stock braking stuff is needed, and leave them be. Until you're getting damn serious, the stock TT brakes are very capable.
 

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Unless you're getting another set of TT wheels, I'd skip anything narrower than 9" in the front.

I would consider a set of 4 lightweight 17x9.5's all around and run a sticky 275/40 all around. This allows you to rotate front to rear and get a little bit more life out of the set of tires. Since going 'square' on tires can add some oversteer, I'd dial that out by going slightly stiffer on the front springs (KW's need this anyway for track work) and go to an NA rear swaybar, or even no rear swaybar. Enkei and Motegi make some relatively low cost options in Supra-friendly offsets (+38 to +45ish) for 17x9.5 all around, but some wheel designs will need a small spacer to clear the front calipers.

Personally, I'd switch out the Hawk pads for Carbotechs out of preference, refresh whatever stock braking stuff is needed, and leave them be. Until you're getting damn serious, the stock TT brakes are very capable.
I run a square setup 18x9.5s, you get alot more out of the tires and can really get the proper heat cycles.
 

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I'm becoming something of a wheel whore myself, but it's more due to the winter / summer cycle we have here. Anyway, running a 17x9.5 here, typically on 275/40 tires. Offers plenty of grip, at reasonable prices, overall weight is lower, it really seems to be the sweet spot for the Mk3. Mk4 however, I have only a tiny bit of experience with.

Have a set of RPF1's with R888's that I used this season. Absolutely love this setup. Picked up the tires used, and despite their age, they were far stickier than anything I've ever driven on. I suspect the NT01's are a very similar compound, considering the TW rating, both companies being under the same umbrella, track intentions, etc...

Anyway, Nick brought up a point that I hate to concede is the truth. 17's these days, tire selection is becoming smaller and smaller. Try finding larger sizes in a sticky, yet street friendly tire. There aren't many options these days. You either get skinnier tires, or track only type tires. So, if you're using a set strictly for track use, 17's are a good budget friendly (and lighter overall!) solution, but for street use, 18's are probably a better bet for the time being.

So, what I do is swap on a set of street tires for events out of town, and drive to the track on those, swap to my track wheel / tire setup once at the track. This presents a bit of a logistics dilemma. How do you get those other tires to the track? If you trailer the car, it's easy enough, no pickup or trailer in my case, so I depend on the generosity of my awesome fellow track nuts to carry a tire or two for me. Food for thought.

Once my car is wide bodied, I will likely be going with an 18x11 or so, with a 315 width tire on all corners. Ironically, I'm economical at heart, I like to run square setups so I can rotate the tires. :p


EDIT: Someone else mentioned the importance of the meat sack behind the wheel. That is where the biggest improvements can be made, that is absolutely the truth. If it weren't, you'd be employed as a professional racing driver, I suspect. ;) In my experience autocrossing my Mk3 Supra, it's a decently mid-pack car. A friend of mine has a modified 7m Mk3, running on stock sized RE71R tires. Best time for best time, I have yet to beat the old man. Why? He has at least 30 years of autocrossing Mk3 Supras, simple as that. This meat sack behind the wheel of my car isn't as fast as the one behind the wheel of his car haha.
 
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