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THE NOTORIOUS BHP
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
We have just tested the Titan sways vs. the adjustible ones from TRD.


I will keep it short and to the point...

Titans are MUCH lighter and the perform much better as well.

Wewere thrilled with the performance and highly recommend them.
 

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THE NOTORIOUS BHP
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Basic testing actually. We made reference to the roll properties of both sets along with what the tires would hold to. To be honest as soon as the second set went on the car the contest was over. ( Titan bars went on second ) Roll was noticably less with Titan bars and the rear behaved better as well.
Weight savings was 20 lbs.
 

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Raretoy said:
[B...We made reference to the roll properties of both sets along with what the tires would hold to

....Roll was noticably less with Titan bars and the rear behaved better as well.
[/B]
Can you please explain what these two statements mean? Also, what settings were used on the adjustable bars? What was the spring/shock setup on the car?

BTW. I assume you understand that less roll is not always better. As many a road racer will tell you, too stiff can result in loss of traction on the inside rear wheel exiting turns under power as an example.

Mike
 

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Also, did you test how well the titan bars worked for a street car? I drive my Supra almost daily, and I've got the TRD BIGASS adjustable sways. I've been thinking of going to the Titan sways, but I'm worried they are took stiff for the street.
 

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THE NOTORIOUS BHP
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Discussion Starter · #6 · (Edited)
Greg,

I didnt mention but the "street feel" of these bars is great. I don't know if theres a better way of explaining that then to just say they feel better. Keep in mind we had both sets in hand during the tests so of course we are going to put the better of the two sets on the car. If no difference was seen in performance and the Titans weren't too stiff ( which concerned us as well at first ) we would still run the Titans for simple weight reduction.

As far as what I meant in my previous description:

I totally agree with what Mike said above. You have to experiment and find the best settings. Too stiff and you could end up lifting the right rear wheel in certain cases.
We wanted to take the car to that point where its as stiff as is effecient. As long as the tires are holding we didnt want the body roll. The Titan Bars were able to eliminate it totally in most cases. The car was able to reach points with the TRD's where the car handled the turning force fine but began to lean. Even when set of the firmest setting up front.
Settings used on the Titan bars were firmest up front and middle setting in rear.
Car exhibited no roll whatsoever and was able to hold a bit higher speeds with the Titan bars going into turns.

Car is lowered 1.5 inches front and back using Tein Flex coilovers.
The electronic dampening was set to the firmest setting for front and just a bit softer in the rear for those same rear traction concerns mentioned about.

We were very pleased with these new bars that they were in fact better performing and lighter as well. We are planning some new larger tires for improved grip as well.

If anyone has some suggestions on some LIGHT wheels with the width we need and at a resonable cost please post. We are struggling at the moment trying to find the best wheel.
The real light ones just dont come wide enough.
 

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Raretoy,

During your comparison, what were the settings on the TRD bars? You mentioned stiffest front, but what about the rear?

Did you try the Titan bars with the stiffest settings on both front and rear? And if so, how were they?
 

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THE NOTORIOUS BHP
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Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
We werent happy with either bar when we ran less then stiffest up front. Still was an improvement over stock but not enough.
Trd bar settings for final test were the same - stiffest front with middle setting rear.

Results for stiffest front and rear actually yeilded slight wheel hop. Felt like inside rear hopped up which cause the enitre rear to slid out some briefly.
We are happy with what we are getting out of it now. Probably could play more with the suspension in terms of dampening.
Both bar sets had wheel hop with stuffest rear setting and suspension tuned to firmest dampening. Titan set seemed slightly worse in hop on firmest rear.
 

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Good to know...this is a new product that I'm very interested in. :)

Steve T.
 

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I think the stock sways are about 8 pounds, and the TRD BIGASS bars are like 36 pounds. Not sure about the regular TRD bars.

Also, isn't it a bad idea to have one end of the car soo much stiffer than the other? I was under the impression that it's a good idea to balance them otherwise you end up with too much oversteer/understeer. Just seems like 54% stiffer front and 33% rear might not balance the car well. I don't know much about suspensions setups though, so I'd like to know from the experts. Somebody please set me straight as to how stiffer front/rear setups work.
 

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Increasing the sway bar stiffness at one end of the car increases it's slip angle. A stiffer rear bar increases oversteer for example. My understanding is it's basically the same thing with spring rates, shock settings and tire pressure.

While I appreciate all the info from Raretoy, I found it suprising that he never mentioned anything about under/over steer characteristics of any of the setups they tried. IMHO, that's one of the most critical issues with any setup.

I'm running the original Big Ass TRD (non adjustable) sway bars on stock springs & shocks with stock sized S-03s and the Lance alignment. I *really* like the setup. It's very balanced with just a hint of oversteer. The sway bars made a huge reduction in reducing roll and did away with the stock understeer with no perceptable ride impact other than going over speed bumps at an angle at low speeds. There was very little change in total cornering force although my corner speeds (with a safety margin) in spirited twisties has definitely gone up due to the enhanced turn in and ability to make corrections without upsetting things.

I've always like less roll as it helps a lot in the unexpected emergency manuveurs that happen on the street. However, I have trouble imagining wanting it any more roll stiffness as the amount I have left is very small. Wih the Tein HA spring rates reducing roll more and the stiff shock and sway bar settings, I'm sure the car feels really tight but I suspect you're giving up a lot of cormering force to get it. From Racetoy's posts, it also sounds like the car is going to have launching issues. For example, I've heard that disconnecting a rear sway bar is a common technique to improve launches as it allows the back end to squat further and maximize traction.

Damn, where's Phil, Andi and the other handling gurus when you need them. My knowledge here is based only on reading and a *lot* of years of playing on winding roads but always having to keep a safety margin. Not the same as having lap times on a track to differentiate between what feels fast and what really is.

Mike
 

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THE NOTORIOUS BHP
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Discussion Starter · #13 · (Edited)
Guys,

I must appologize if my report while having tested both sets was lacking. As stated when I first posted I was trying to be brief. I am no pro I do not do R & D full time by any means. I will tell you one thing, theres no question who makes the better bars.
I didnt get into all the extra details on the over/understeer because with what we have on the car you can eliminate virtually any problems you might have in both these areas. I also didnt go into track conditions, grades, slopes, tires and a host of other things that do have an affect on steering. Basically I thought I would help out a bit and report back that there is no contest here. The Titans are the better bars. I wish more people who I know have had the opportunity to have such testing would report back on things like intake manifolds etc..
You could probably write an entire book on this subject but trust me on this the Titans are the better bars.
We were able to arrive at no problems with understear or over stear the day we ran it. There are so many variables though.
As for the question of launching that I did not address, the electronic dampening helps this a lot. Simply hitting one button to soften up the rears will give you the active squat you need off the line.
I doubt you can find a set up though thats 100% perfect out on the course of the week and also perfect for the drag. The adjustments will always need to be worked with.
But I would say complete satisfaction can be arrived at using these lighter bars. So much for keeping it brief huh LOL
With every element of this suspension now adjustable
I wasn't so much posting here to offer the perfect set up I just wanted to clear up any doubt as to which bars were better.
In our oppinion better all the way around.
Yes 36 lbs is correct for the TRD big bars. I would suspect that the stockers are much heavier then 8 though. Never weighed them but they felt heavier then the Titans.
 

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Raretoy,

I appreciate your attempt to enlighten us but all I got from your post was the Titan's are lighter, yielded less roll and are "better".

Lighter is always good but I'd seen that info before.

Based on my experiences with the TRD Big Ass non adjustables, I have trouble understanding how stiffer could actually improve cornering force particularly with stiffer springs than I'm running now. Handling is all about keeping the tire tread flat and in contact with the road and stiffer is not always better. Among other things, too much stiffness can cause a car to break loose dramatically when pushed too hard as opposed to a more gradual loss of traction.

No offence but outside of stiffer and lighter, what is "better" about them? Was all your testing on the street? Lots of info gets posted here, some good, some not. I just don't remember you posting about road racing in the past and without that kind of experience, it's tough to make judgements like you did. I've been playing in the twisties for 30 years on the street and don't feel comfortable doing so.

Mike
 
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