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Discussion Starter #1

Today we look at sports car sales for the full year of 2019. Most of the cars in this segment were down from 2018. There were a few exceptions: Audi A5 and Lexus RC were both up 25% from the year before, and the BMW 2-Series showed a slight increase.

The segment as a whole was down 19,000 vehicles from 2018.

Here are the rankings for each car along with a comparison of 2019 versus 2018:

2019 Sports Car Sales

1.Audi A523,023 salesUp 25.5%
2.Subaru Impreza WRX21,838 salesDown 35%
3.Chevrolet Corvette17,898 salesDown 13%
4.BMW 2-Series8,015 salesUp 6.5%
5.Mazda MX-5 Miata7,753 salesDown 14%
6.Infiniti Q605,043 salesDown 35%
7.Lexus RC4,591 salesUp 25.5%
8.Toyota 86/FR-S3,398 salesDown 6.4%
9.Toyota Supra2,884 salesNew Entry
10.Fiat 124 Spider2,646 salesDown 23%
11.Buick Cascada2,535 salesDown 90%
12.Nissan 370Z2,384 salesDown 22%
13.Subaru BRZ2,334 salesDown 62%
14.Porsche Taycan130 salesNew Entry
 

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Super Moderator
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Gary,

I assume these numbers are USDM-only and not world-wide. Correct me if I am wrong.

Thanks.


Ken.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
That is correct Ken, the numbers are US only. I realize the Supra got about half a year to sell but that number isn't spectacular.
 

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Super Moderator
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With all of the corporate marketing muscle Toyota put into the MKV, the total sales number has to be extremely disappointing.


Ken.
 

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iSPOOL
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1,185 Posts
Zupra fanboys: "But it's going to outsell the MKIV Supras first year brah. You all are just haters brah."
247853

😑🤦‍♂️
 

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Smith & Wesson Member
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564 Posts
if this was priced a little bit more than the 86 say in the high $30's low $40's it probably would've sold like hot cakes.
Yup, you need to save the difference for the repairs
 
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No surprise with the sale numbers. Its a new car that is differentiating itself than all the previous Supras and not counting on previous Supra owners.
Completely new platform, needs time to gain an audience.
 

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Blue Thunder
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3,490 Posts
No surprise with the sale numbers. Its a new car that is differentiating itself than all the previous Supras and not counting on previous Supra owners.
Completely new platform, needs time to gain an audience.
Not counting on PREVIOUS Supra owners has been it's downfall. There's over 1,000 still sitting on dealers lots. Where as all 2020 Corvettes have been PRE-SOLD. Chevy was also not
counting on PREVIOUS owners. Also a COMPLETELY new platform. If the product is good, not a pretender, and the price is right...they will come.

BTW....It'll never get the TIME to gain an audience. The buying public has spoken with their wallets. Toyota's gamble failed. Sorry, you can't fool all of the people all of the time.

B
 

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Boost Junkie
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No surprise with the sale numbers. Its a new car that is differentiating itself than all the previous Supras and not counting on previous Supra owners.
Completely new platform, needs time to gain an audience.
The car is entirely counting on previous models, that's why it is called Supra. Otherwise BMW would have just sold it as a Z4 hardtop.

Steve
 

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Very Senior Member
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No surprise with the sale numbers. Its a new car that is differentiating itself than all the previous Supras and not counting on previous Supra owners.
Completely new platform, needs time to gain an audience.
No surprise with the sale numbers. Its a BMW that is different from all the previous Supras and not a Supra.
BMW has already announced the end of the Z4. Don't invest too much in parts and tools.
 
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Not counting on PREVIOUS Supra owners has been it's downfall. There's over 1,000 still sitting on dealers lots. Where as all 2020 Corvettes have been PRE-SOLD. Chevy was also not
counting on PREVIOUS owners. Also a COMPLETELY new platform. If the product is good, not a pretender, and the price is right...they will come.

BTW....It'll never get the TIME to gain an audience. The buying public has spoken with their wallets. Toyota's gamble failed. Sorry, you can't fool all of the people all of the time.

B
Im not arguing whether it was the correct strategy or not. Just stating the fact that its a brand new platform that will need time to gain an audience (which might or might never happen)


The car is entirely counting on previous models, that's why it is called Supra. Otherwise BMW would have just sold it as a Z4 hardtop.

Steve
If that was the case, they would have made a 100% Toyota car and not given you a reason to complain about the Zupra all day.
 

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iSPOOL
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Im not arguing whether it was the correct strategy or not. Just stating the fact that its a brand new platform that will need time to gain an audience (which might or might never happen)




If that was the case, they would have made a 100% Toyota car and not given you a reason to complain about the Zupra all day.
Cars usually see their highest sales numbers in their first and second years of production. If this is the case your statement about it needing to gain audience to sell more units may not come true.
Plus at this rate hitting 12,000 units in the US in one year will not happen. They will be extremely lucky to hit 7,000...
Chevy relied on its previous owners and potential future owners in their product development of the C8. That's one of the reasons why their first year sales are maxed out. As I've stated before, the Zupra has well over 1000 new models sitting at car lots in the US. That tells us enough about this cars popularity, or lack there of, on the market.
247894
 
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Cars usually see their highest sales numbers in their first and second years of production. If this is the case your statement about it needing to gain audience to sell more units may not come true.
Plus at this rate hitting 12,000 units in the US in one year will not happen. They will be extremely lucky to hit 7,000...
Chevy relied on its previous owners and potential future owners in their product development of the C8. That's one of the reasons why their first year sales are maxed out. As I've stated before, the Zupra has well over 1000 new models sitting at car lots in the US. That tells us enough about this cars popularity, or lack there of, on the market.
As stated before, im not defending Toyota strategy or saying they did the right thing.

But thats their decision and they wanted to start fresh with a new audience base. They released a brand new car hoping for a brand new customer base. If this is going to work, its going to take time.

Im not saying it will work.
 

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iSPOOL
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As stated before, im not defending Toyota strategy or saying they did the right thing.

But thats their decision and they wanted to start fresh with a new audience base. They released a brand new car hoping for a brand new customer base. If this is going to work, its going to take time.

Im not saying it will work.
I don't see how they went after a new market. The only thing that makes that statement true is the low purchase price which is still $20k higher than what the average person spends on vehicle purchases and the change to a two seater which makes even less sense for a younger buyer.

Also if they wanted to "start fresh" with a new audience then why have these items:
1. The Supra name (call it something else)
2. Inline 6 engine (pointless to have unless you're trying to cash in on your past)
3. Double hood latches (yeah...Ole Tada made that a point when he opened it up to the youtube reviewers...)
4. Toyota emailing multiple JAZA80 Supra owners to have their vehicles and presence on the lot to strum up faux positive feedback on the car.
5. The Heritage body kit on the Zupra trying to recreate the A80 look.
6. The fake TRD body kit with the JZA80 hood vent cut outs which make little sense.
The list goes on.
This is a hardtop Z4 with a better tune so it's not a new platform in the least.
The claim doesn't make sense, just more excuses for its lagging sales.
 

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supra7
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Definitely not a new platform. BMW community been rocking it for years now. They renamed the Z4 coupe and restyled the body. Not what I call a new platform at all. Oh, well I guess it's "new" to Toyota then
 

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Very Senior Member
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...

But thats their decision and they wanted to start fresh with a new audience base. They released a brand new car hoping for a brand new customer base. If this is going to work, its going to take time.
...
You can hold that for YOUR opinion but there is zero evidence that is/was Toyota's opinion.
As noted above, the exact opposite is about a 99.99% likelihood of being correct.
BTW - their time is up - the car is not selling and will not recover.
Like I said, don't waste time and money chasing this for work - unless you do BMW repair work.
 
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You can hold that for YOUR opinion but there is zero evidence that is/was Toyota's opinion.
As noted above, the exact opposite is about a 99.99% likelihood of being correct.
BTW - their time is up - the car is not selling and will not recover.
Like I said, don't waste time and money chasing this for work - unless you do BMW repair work.
Read my post again. You completely misunderstood what i said.

Toyota decided to work with BMW and decided to go down this path with the new SUPRA. Im not saying they did the right thing.
But it was their decision.

Are you saying it was not their decision?

I don't see how they went after a new market. The only thing that makes that statement true is the low purchase price which is still $20k higher than what the average person spends on vehicle purchases and the change to a two seater which makes even less sense for a younger buyer.

Also if they wanted to "start fresh" with a new audience then why have these items:
1. The Supra name (call it something else)
2. Inline 6 engine (pointless to have unless you're trying to cash in on your past)
3. Double hood latches (yeah...Ole Tada made that a point when he opened it up to the youtube reviewers...)
4. Toyota emailing multiple JAZA80 Supra owners to have their vehicles and presence on the lot to strum up faux positive feedback on the car.
5. The Heritage body kit on the Zupra trying to recreate the A80 look.
6. The fake TRD body kit with the JZA80 hood vent cut outs which make little sense.
The list goes on.
This is a hardtop Z4 with a better tune so it's not a new platform in the least.
The claim doesn't make sense, just more excuses for its lagging sales.
Their goal was to build on the SUPRA's nostalgia by using the name and the heritage body kit.
A new market meaning they were not going after the previous supra owners. if they were, they would have used an engine with a lot more power and potential and used a 100% Toyota designed car.



Definitely not a new platform. BMW community been rocking it for years now. They renamed the Z4 coupe and restyled the body. Not what I call a new platform at all. Oh, well I guess it's "new" to Toyota then
For the average consumer, its a new car and its a Toyota.
 

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iSPOOL
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Read my post again. You completely misunderstood what i said.

Toyota decided to work with BMW and decided to go down this path with the new SUPRA. Im not saying they did the right thing.
But it was their decision.

Are you saying it was not their decision?



Their goal was to build on the SUPRA's nostalgia by using the name and the heritage body kit.
A new market meaning they were not going after the previous supra owners. if they were, they would have used an engine with a lot more power and potential and used a 100% Toyota designed car.





For the average consumer, its a new car and its a Toyota.
It seems you don't realize that surveys were sent to previous Supra owners asking what they want in a next generation sports car. You can't in one breath say they didn't build this for Supra owners then in another breath say they built it for nostalgia, what nostalgia are they banking on with a brand new driver who hasn't owned a Supra? That's like me saying I miss the Summer of '69 when I was born in 1985 lol. A song cannot evoke feelings of nostalgia from something I haven't experienced.

Every generation of car builds off the previous generation and at no point (if they are smart) do they disregard the past. Tada and his team were wrong for the project. Tada wanted a car to compete with the lowly Porsche Cayman instead of the 911 or Z06 Corvette. They shrank the FT-1 design by Toyota North America onto a Z4 chassis to cut corners and cheap out. All the fake vents are a tall tale sign, they would have been functional on a car that stayed true to the FT-1 dimensions.

We have followed this car longer than your company has been in business. The BMW community, from which you hail, have only recently joined the conversation since 2018. Please don't think we are misinformed on this cars development.

I acknowledge it's your opinion that this route of ignoring the past was Toyota's objective but that opinion doesn't match the facts.
 
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