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Passion Driven
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Is the title of a big newspaper article in the local Times Herald Record (For the Hudson Valley, here in Orange County New York)

Link: http://www.recordonline.com/archive/2005/05/16/toygm.htm

It talks of GM's current losses and Toyota's recent $2.8 Billion in profit and how it's not out of the question to consider the fact that Toyota may soon surpass General Motors Corp. as the world's No. 1 Automaker.

It then brings up Toyota's concern: "its Japanese rival is worried about doing too well and sparking a protectionist backlash in the United States" Perhaps a replay of the "Japan-bashing" trade friction of the 1980's.

This situation overall has me a bit angry. There's nobody to blame but GM themselves for merely not "Stepping up" to the plate. A continued reputation, proven over and over and OVER, is that a Japanese car is made better, lasts longer, and in effect loses its value much slower. (Not to mention much more inspiring in design and appeal, bah!) I feel Toyota shouldn't have to wince at a thought of hatred simply because they have met consumer demands and GM hasn't.

I'd love to see domestics rise to the challenge of product quality but they simply haven't, and if a downfall is what's on the horizon well, they deserved it.
 

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Yep...surprised I haven't heard people complaining about Korean cars yet either. (you know, like how affordable they are, especially with their good warranties and what not)
 

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Big HP = Big Downtime
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GM is using the same platforms over and over again in an effort to just sqeeze as much as they can off there old ideas. They deserve whats coming to them.
 

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Big HP = Big Downtime
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Josh M said:
Thats crazy....................especially the part about raising prices to aid american auto makers................f that.................
YES. I notice that. GM's parts almost cost the same as most japanese parts now. Its BS considering that their parts don't last near as long and are more likely to fail which is one more reason they are going to loose the market
 

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FromDaStreetz said:
GM is using the same platforms over and over again in an effort to just sqeeze as much as they can off there old ideas. They deserve whats coming to them.
It's actually not as much about that as many import fans would like to believe. While sales dropping off due to boring product, quality issues, competition, etc has a large impact, the main nail being driven into the GM coffin is one of excessive pension/benefits expenses.

North America overall has an aging population, and more highly paid/pensioned workers are retiring now than ever before in NA history.

Think about this....every single vehicle that rolls off a GM production line has 28 extra labour hours in it, JUST to pay PENSIONERS :eek: A Toyota, for comparison, has less than 8 to pay the same expense! And with the aging population, this is getting worse for GM by the day!

Not sure if everyone is aware of this, but GM's (and Ford's) credit rating rating has recently been downgraded to a "junk" status. This results in higher interest expenses on loans, decreased purchasing power and fewer lenders to choose from. In light of this, GM has proposed to the US Government that it may require large subsidies/cash injections in the not-so-distant future to keep from being in VERY serious hot water.....of course, the US gov. doesn't exactly have big piles of cash laying around right now, so that will be interesting to see their response.

Unfortunately, whatever your automotive preference may be, this isn't a good thing. GM employs thousands of people, has entire cities built around plants, and is a huge player in the N. American economy.
 

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I LOVE Toyota's and I hate to say it but that is all I will probably ever own. I have had nothing but EXCELLENT service from EVERY Toyota product I have ever owned. Every domestic I ever owned was nothing but a royal piece of SHIT and one of those cars was a very well known GM product........a Corvette. :rolleyes:
 
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Northof49 said:
...., the main nail being driven into the GM coffin is one of excessive pension/benefits expenses.
......

Think about this....every single vehicle that rolls off a GM production line has 28 extra labour hours in it, JUST to pay PENSIONERS :eek: ..........

Unfortunately, whatever your automotive preference may be, this isn't a good thing. GM employs thousands of people, has entire cities built around plants, and is a huge player in the N. American economy.
A bigger problem are the work rules and salaries commanded by the unions. It's called cutting your own throat.

I would love to see the domestics rise to the level of Toyota (or Nissan, or Honda, or Mitsu, ....etc.) in terms of quality and reliability. The domestics have been improving over the past few years - but they have a lot of ground to make up.
 

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VickSupra said:
A bigger problem are the work rules and salaries commanded by the unions. It's called cutting your own throat.
I have to agree on this one, the american unions just expect to much pay for less work. This is why wal mart continues to make so much they wont allow a union in their business. great empires are not brought down from the outside, they are destroyed from the inside.
Sooner or later chevy will figure it out if its not to late that is. You just cant beat the design and outlasting performance and warranty of toyota or nissan. Its sad to say this but the american people are only doing this to themselves.
 

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VickSupra said:
A bigger problem are the work rules and salaries commanded by the unions. It's called cutting your own throat.
Agreed 100%....I was going to bring up the UAW as the culprit, but figured my post was already long-winded enough :D
 

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EchoDeDupra
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Toyota has actually said they will try and raise prices in order to help GM Sales!!!... I read that in Business Week :)
 

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Tatanko said:
Yep...surprised I haven't heard people complaining about Korean cars yet either. (you know, like how affordable they are, especially with their good warranties and what not)
Actually, the Korean automaker Hyundai is having to payout $85million for false HP claims on their vehicles.

SuprasMaximus said:
I LOVE Toyota's and I hate to say it but that is all I will probably ever own. I have had nothing but EXCELLENT service from EVERY Toyota product I have ever owned. Every domestic I ever owned was nothing but a royal piece of SHIT and one of those cars was a very well known GM product........a Corvette. :rolleyes:
Funny you say that. Ask how many C5 owners have had their alternators go out. :bigthumb:
 

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Hua said:
Actually, the Korean automaker Hyundai is having to payout $85million for false HP claims on their vehicles.


Funny you say that. Ask how many C5 owners have had their alternators go out. :bigthumb:

I know ALL TO WELL about shitty GM alternators :bigthumb:
 

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You Can [Not] Advance
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Have you heard that Toyota is riding majorty of its bet on the new Hilux truck? The Hilux is basicly our Taco(Tacoma) and they are riding on a major bet of that car to take hold of sales from GM with it.

The problem is that instead of builing majorty of the major componats of the car at japan for more inhouse/secure reason they are letting there planets accross the world to do it, to cheapen out the cost.

We'll see how long it'll be (or if ever) Toyota's Reliablity comes into question.
 

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this is very true

Northof49 said:
Unfortunately, whatever your automotive preference may be, this isn't a good thing. GM employs thousands of people, has entire cities built around plants, and is a huge player in the N. American economy.
 

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SuprasMaximus said:
I LOVE Toyota's and I hate to say it but that is all I will probably ever own. I have had nothing but EXCELLENT service from EVERY Toyota product I have ever owned. Every domestic I ever owned was nothing but a royal piece of SHIT and one of those cars was a very well known GM product........a Corvette. :rolleyes:
It's odd that I have the exact opposite view. Every Toyota I've owned (6 in all) has been nothing but headaches. I've owned one Ford, and it was dead reliable for over 300k miles. And the few times I've taken my cars to a dealer, I've recieved better service at the Ford dealer than at Toyota. It's funny, but whenever someone talks about Toyota reliability, I always laugh. I still love em though.
 

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Racefiend said:
It's odd that I have the exact opposite view. Every Toyota I've owned (6 in all) has been nothing but headaches. I've owned one Ford, and it was dead reliable for over 300k miles. And the few times I've taken my cars to a dealer, I've recieved better service at the Ford dealer than at Toyota. It's funny, but whenever someone talks about Toyota reliability, I always laugh. I still love em though.
I don't know if your cars were stock or not but my family has had a very good experience with toyota.
My uncle has a old Previa minivan with 175k or some crap, doesn't get maintained very well, and still makes interstate trips like a champ. Same story goes for my other aunt's Camry with way over 160k as well as the older Lexus she owns. Both pretty much only buy toyota/lexus now.
 

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I agree 100% - the Unions are really responsible for the downfall of the US auto industry. They can build a good product when they put their mind to it... but the R&D $'s are being eaten up by ridiculous wages and benefits paid to a person who simply fastens the same bolt all day.

I own 3 Toyota's and will also probably be the only brand I buy.

My brand new Tacoma was built in California by the way... so it's obviously not that American workers can't do the job... but the UAW has really fucked themselves and the domestic auto industry.
 

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GM is strangled by grossly overpaid union auto workers and pensioners. Plus, who knows how many millions the executives are stealing under the table. :stickpoke Greed from all sides. Doesn't leave nearly as much money for Research & Development. Honestly, other than the Vette and some of the trucks/SUVs, I could really give a shit about anything in the entire GM lineup.

I don't know if many people realize just how well paid these freakin Union slugs are!! I believe the avg for an experienced UAW is at least in the $80-90,000 range, that's practically executive level pay, and probably very often with only a freakin' H.S. diploma! Probably makes some people want to skip college and go straight to work at the plant like dad. Hell, I guess it DOES pay off, until they bankrupt GM. :sadwavey:
 

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Passion Driven
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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Racefiend said:
Every Toyota I've owned (6 in all) has been nothing but headaches.
I think you've got a curse. You've owned the ONLY 6 toyota defects that rolled off the factory line. :wtflol:
 
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