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Z

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Discussion Starter #1
I've had my car for a few years now and I've basically left it alone, no mods other than a high flow drop in filter, amsoil and denso iridium plugs. I've spent a lot of time reading posts in the various forums. Now that I'm starting to finally get the itch to make some changes one of the questions I had was about these pulleys. I've read things over the years but it seems to be all conjecture and no substance.

Thanks,
Zach
 

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Many people have had problems with pulleys. When it replaces the main crank it's not a good idea. Then again most pulley sets are useless.. just for looks.

I say go with cam gears instead.
 
Z

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Discussion Starter #3
I'm looking for facts from actual owners that say they have had problems. It seems like its always someones brothers uncles sisters friend if you know what I mean. I appreciate your 2 cents though.

Thanks,
Zach
 
Z

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Discussion Starter #5
Thats because its just for show, I've read that underdriving alone does not make significant power thats why I would not buy their kit.

Zach
 

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2/3 HP to the Paws
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You're suggesting a modification that'll result in a gain of 5 hp on a good day with a tail wind, and the risk of destroying everything from your belt driven accessories to your electrical system and engine.

Just say no.

In the case of the crank pulley, the harmonic damper is there for a very good reason.

For additional info, you can read Reg Riemer's writeups on the issue here and here.
 
Z

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Discussion Starter #7
I've checked these Unorthodox guys out by looking into other makes/models they make stuff for and the reputation. I've also talked to some of the people Unorthodox claims to have worked with especially those running the 2JZGTE. They have worked with many top race names they claim from Rhys Millen (Pikes Peak) to Passen/Wheel Source (Speed Vision) to Vinny Ten (NHRA/NDRA/IDRC). They have nothing bad to say about the pulleys and they were very happy with the performance of the pulleys.
I also don't want to hear about street cars being different from race cars because its a about cycle time and the race cars far exceed the street vehicles cycle time for usage by a long shot.Now it makes me wonder if the small amount of rhetoric I hear is just a baseless conjecture or possible fact.
I'm especially disheartened by the recent things I herd about crank seals, the owners admit not tightening the crank bolt enough, so how is that Unorthodox's fault. Now it makes me wonder if the small amount of rhetoric I hear is just a baseless conjecture or possible fact.

Zach
 

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zachsmkiv said:
I've checked these Unorthodox guys out by looking into other makes/models they make stuff for and the reputation. I've also talked to some of the people Unorthodox claims to have worked with especially those running the 2JZGTE. They have worked with many top race names they claim from Rhys Millen (Pikes Peak) to Passen/Wheel Source (Speed Vision) to Vinny Ten (NHRA/NDRA/IDRC). They have nothing bad to say about the pulleys and they were very happy with the performance of the pulleys.
I also don't want to hear about street cars being different from race cars because its a about cycle time and the race cars far exceed the street vehicles cycle time for usage by a long shot.Now it makes me wonder if the small amount of rhetoric I hear is just a baseless conjecture or possible fact.
I'm especially disheartened by the recent things I herd about crank seals, the owners admit not tightening the crank bolt enough, so how is that Unorthodox's fault. Now it makes me wonder if the small amount of rhetoric I hear is just a baseless conjecture or possible fact.

Zach


dude....if you're so PRO-crank pulley, then why dont you just get a set of your own and put it on. I dont understand your reason for this thread if you're only going to shoot down everyone's opinion on how aftermarket lightened crank pulleys can possibly damage your engine. Anyhow, good luck with your pulley install . And if it goes all swell for you, then more power to ya...
 
Z

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Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
It has nothing to do with shooting people down. I just want the facts from other owners but so far it just seems like its all talk/unfocused blame and no clear cut proof. I do want to buy these pulleys but I also want to cover all my bases in case I actually have a problem and need to take legal action. So far the professional racers are pointing me into the buy direction.

Zach
 

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Get a life...
 

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sounds like you are ready to buy them regardless of what people say.

like simba said, the gains are not very much, where as there are a lot of risks. i dont have them, and i wont have them, simply because there are better ways to make more power without the risks. your car is stock for all intents and purposes... drop in filter, plugs, and synthetic isnt exactly modded.... if you want real gains, get an exhaust, a downpipe, a boost controller, something that will make a noticeable difference without taking a huge risk of damaging something. just my opinion, but like i said you sound like you are already sold on them so anything anyone here says isnt going to make a difference.

even the people that dont have them know they dont make much difference in hp... difference in hp is the point of modding.. not just to say you have something... at least thats how it is for me.. what im getting at is why not do the mods that will net you some noticeable gains first, before doing the things that get you little to nothing.

Later,
CJ
 

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zachsmkiv said:
I've checked these Unorthodox guys out by looking into other makes/models they make stuff for and the reputation.
The reputation of what, exactly? Have you seen many 2jz's in racing applications? Any Supra owners proudly proclaiming their use of underdrive pulleys in victory lane? I rather doubt it.

Reducing rotating mass on the crank by a relatively tiny amount isn't going to win a race. You'll gain a tiny, insignificant amount of power, and introduce a significant risk of engine failure.

If that is worth it to you, then by all means, go out and buy a set.

In my experience, the only people who buy the silly things want the pretty purple anodized metal for show and really don't give half a damn about anything else.

People who actually do race their cars tend to think keeping their engines in one piece for the duration of an event is a universally good thing. Quite frankly, I'll take the opinion of Toyota Engineers over Unorthodox marketing any day of the week.
 
Z

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Discussion Starter #13
What damage? Where is the proof? I have not sealed the deal on getting these so stop putting words in my mouth like its a done deal.
As for your comment "The reputation of what, exactly? Have you seen many 2jz's in racing applications? Any Supra owners proudly proclaiming their use of underdrive pulleys in victory lane? I rather doubt it." You obviously don't know what you are talking about. Vinny Ten won the last two NHRA events in the Modified class and he runs their crank pulley.
Now I do want to preface that I've herd more from the automatic owners but that is based on their own inability to step to a transmission setup that can handle that power as the factory unit was never intended to do so. So auto owners please refrain from responding
What I would like to hear is credible facts that prove without a doubt that there is a problem. Not that I'm an automitve engineer, I'm mechanical enginner, but we did cover quite a bit material stress, torsional dynamics and harmonics in college. There is nothing these pulleys, even in conjunction with an aluminum flywheel could do to this engine. Vinny Ten told me he has run almost two seasons on the same motor (1200+ HP) and he has the crank pulley bolted on and has never had a problem once.The same went for each of the teams I talked too. So please change my mind, before I make this god awful mistake, and buy this kit and their cam gears (man those gear are definately sweet!)
 
Z

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Discussion Starter #14
I guess the pros are right, the rare problems that owners say have occured are really the owners or shops inability to solve the real problems. So they pick the easy thing to blame because it is a popular bully pulpit. I'm getting these pulleys and will enjoy the benefits. Each of the pros (previously mentioned) I talked to said they saw dyno gains on their customers vehicles in the 14-22 HP range from mildly modified cars to heavily modified cars. So much for the little to no gain claims by the bully pulpit. So say what you want but the fact is that a 1400HP race motor over two years never had one problem that could even be remotely linked to the crank pulley. I talked to Vinny again now that he just won the NHRA Modified Class finals and he told me they a just changed the motor out before the finals because they had an oiling problem related to the turbo. They solved it by making a oil return reservoir for the turbo with a fluid pump to help eliminate the airation that caused the problem in the first place. They solved the problem instead of picking something else to blame and never really solving the problem.

Thanks again for making the decision relatively easy!

Zach
 

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2/3 HP to the Paws
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zachsmkiv said:
What damage? Where is the proof?
Wild and crazy idea: Try reading the material I linked in my first comment.

Vinny Ten won the last two NHRA events in the Modified class and he runs their crank pulley.
He also loads his engines for ten seconds at a time while running down drag strips.

Each of the pros (previously mentioned) I talked to said they saw dyno gains on their customers vehicles in the 14-22 HP range from mildly modified cars to heavily modified cars. So much for the little to no gain claims by the bully pulpit.
If you think 14-22 horsepower is a significant gain for a Supra... well, no, I don't suppose that should surprise me. :rolleyes:
 

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zachsmkiv, I'm not sure what solving a turbo problem has to so with anything.
If you read what people said, the gain is not worth the possible risk.
The 2JZ has been designed with a significant crank damper for a good reason. Its not to say that you could change it, but it is a valid point for someone that has no real performance mods and I assume would want to keep the balanced, smooth, reliable engine they have.
Why would Toyota use it??? Surely not for looks.
I have no problem with the other pulleys, but i wouldnt change the crank.
I agree totally with the flywheel though, no chance of causing drama.

However, why bother paying for anything else, without first getting an exhaust.
Even if noise is a problem, you could still buy a quiet system that would eat the pulley mod alive in terms of performance. But if actual performance isnt your driving factor for the mod, then thats cool too.

PS. Good luck taking legal action against a company that is supplying you with a product you said has been proven to work fine. Cant see the logic there.

Good luck either way, I'm sure you will make the right choice.
 
Z

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Discussion Starter #18
I think that the HP numbers are inexpensive for their cost. I don't know about you but HP is HP and anything over 5 HP is worth the effort as long as the price is reasonable. I do plan on doing more than just the pulleys. My point about Vinnys car is simple he found the problem and didn't blame something else and keep having the problem. He solved the problem by doing real research. I have not yet seen credible evidence by a real professional. I mean Vinny again is a great example becuase he has been building these motors for almost 10 years now and nobody knows them better or builds them better. He has done the long term research and it includes many many street cars. Looking at bearings, checking the cranks and the factory damper is built exactly like Unorthodox says it is and that comes right out of Vinnys mouth. I even talked to the guys at Passen and they confirmed the same as they had taken their motor apart a few times to make checks and no issues whatsoever. In fact they mentioned a conversation that came up between the teams about the pulleys and possible damage and one engineer that was working for a BMW team at the time, previously having worked for BMW, asked what type of cycle time Passen had using the pulleys. They replied back that they had accumulated over 2+ milion cycles through racing and dyno testing. The engineer replied back that there would be no problems from the product as the OEM's only tested up to 1 million cycles and if it made that level the product was 100% acceptable. The factory crank pulley is an audible harmonic damper that quiets the audible accessory noise to eliminate the NVH herd in the cabin. I mena look at how quiet todays cars are and why factories are going to dual mass flywheel to quiet tranny noise, I herd the Supra has one for just that reason and the 6spd guys with an aluminum flywheel know it. Also one interesting point I think you all miss is that even if it was a damper it would only be good for stock HP, once you've modded throw it in the garbage. So all you modded guys should have all kinds of failures. I mean look at Unorthodox their proucts have been used by enthusiasts for almost 7 years now with mileage accumulations in the billions of miles. They are still in business, no problems, no lawsuits. I guess that because in a court of law the facts in their favor out weight the proof less conjecture. I'm sorry for being long winded but it seems to me that many companies get slammed for no good reason and this is one of those cases.
 
K

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Discussion Starter #19
I have just a used UR pulley for sale not the full set just the crank pulley. PM me if you want one ;)

Kaz
 
Z

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Thanks Kaz but I'm getting new ones, also because I just found out Unorthodox changed the diameter of the crank pulley about 5% larger (5% less underdrive), they said they did not see need to change it but felt that enough people were upgrading to really large stereos and changing out to electric fans that the extra speed on the alternator was beneficial for those owners without compromising increases in HP. They did the testing on their owners Supra who upgarded to twin SPAL fans and ran into a drianing problem, when autocrossing, sitting at idle between runs.

Zach
 
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