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Discussion Starter #1
The new porshce 911 (997) turbo has these from the factory it is in the new road and track the turbos are made by borg warner. Just wondering what info no these I would comeup with on here. Any info on the porsche o just on the turbos would be great.

I know this might not be in the right forum btu I am really interested in the turbo and not the porsche I figured the right guys might see it in mkiv hopefully it wont get moved.
 

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I have yet to see a a VATN or (VNC?) on a Supra, it sounds interesting but it has one disadvantage. It adds weight to the turbine (or compressor.. but they are mechanically connected so differentiating them is moot)

I don't doubt it has potential, but I also think there are great strides to be made in mechanical design of traditional turbochargers. Sometimes something as simple as adding stokes around the inner circumference of the turbine or compressor housing can make a difference. (whether or not it would, I have no fucking clue, but it's an example)

The absolute best application for these engines is on Off and Over The Road Diesel engines. Massive cubes can spool up the complex rotating mass far better than a 3.0L engine can. Not to say it doesn't have potential, as the Porsche uses them, but I think it will go the way of the stroker. It's EXPLODED recently, and I feel VATN/VNC may make big waves, it all depends on the crucial early adopters.

From someone that nows ZERO about thermodynamics, I would guess that VNC would be more reliable, as the mechanical parts are on the compressor side and may see upwards of 400º versus 1300º+ EGT in the turbine section.
 

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Ok, lets cover some basics about Variable Nozzle Turbines (VNT). The weight associated with the extra harware is outweighed by the added performance factor by far. The hardware is on the hot side, not the cold side. You are correct, much engineering is involved with the aero-characteristics and the materials of the basic design of a turbo but VNT is a new method as of recent. It is not unreasonable to think VNT has applications for LDT- it's not just for Kenworths and CATs! It takes no more exhaust gas energy to deal with a VNT mechanism- what do think is so heavy or massive about this technology?
Finally, VNT is not so reliable for reasons I can't say here. The vane mechanism itself has been tested to over 1400 degF but that's not the problem. Expect to see this technology on Ford F series and other light-duty trucks real soon!
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I think it was already on a 90's dodge daytona.... the poprsche tq curve is amazing and start 1500rpms sooner than its predessecor and ends 500rpms later also generates higher #'s that is enough for me to believe it works. It has tq at 1500rpms! (so the magazine says)
 

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I read that the vanes in the turbo are to be made of some high end material so that it will stand up to the high temps of a gas motor
 

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Discussion Starter #7
yeah it said that in the article I read too but I dont understand why they mention that it seems like they should have always been made out of that type of material. I know my turbine blades (ITS) are made from iconel. Are the variable blades nto able to be made out of teh same material as our standard turbine blades that hold up to gas motor heat?
 

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Not Porsche related, but over here we started getting the 3.0 liter inline 4 turbo diesel 2005+ Toyota Hilux, 4-Runners with VATN turbos. Pretty torquey little fokkers.
 

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ama0787 said:
yeah it said that in the article I read too but I dont understand why they mention that it seems like they should have always been made out of that type of material. I know my turbine blades (ITS) are made from iconel. Are the variable blades nto able to be made out of teh same material as our standard turbine blades that hold up to gas motor heat?
The turbine wheel is completely separate from the vanes. Any modern turbine wheel will at very least be made of iconel, but the vanes are a whole different matter. Cast iron can handle 1400F if the stress is low enough. My guess is the vanes in the Porsche are either a high grade stainless or one step up from that. Inco would be surprising to me.

The new Porsche is definitely interesting. Hopefully we'll start to see more manufacturers use turbos in gas applications.

Daniel
 

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Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
Grumpy said:
Not Porsche related, but over here we started getting the 3.0 liter inline 4 turbo diesel 2005+ Toyota Hilux, 4-Runners with VATN turbos. Pretty torquey little fokkers.

This is very interesting do you know which manufactuer they use? Any spec on the rubo at all? maybe how much boost it runs when it has it buy or how many cfm's? I know you probaly dont know or have access to the answers but I figured I would give it a shot.

Still garret I assume. I have tomorrow off so hopefully Ill take the time to come up with some useful info for this thread

Thanks,
Anthony
 

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Discussion Starter #11
BUMP!!

Anyone heard anyhitng else? Maybe we could buy the turbos used on the new porsche in different sizes or hell maybe even use the exact same 2 turbos!! our displacement is similar and I would love the power band the porsche has now! Then we could raise the boost with the aem and add some race gas maybe we woiuld have 700hp car with full bost by 2300rpms
 

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Some points I know about those turbos. These kind of chargers are veeery common here in Europe in the meanwhile on turbodiesels. Almost every manufacturer is using them for their great response and the combination of low end PLUS top end power. The downside was until now that the adjustable blades around the turbine wheel coudln´t withstand the high egt´s compared to the colder ones of a diesel engine.
Apparently Porsche (or Borg Warner) has implemented a new material here which can handle the increased #`s there.

I would love to have such a boy in my baby BUT as far as I know the adjustment of the VTN blades is done electrically by the ECU based on the current load and rpm situation of the engine. -So more closed at the down end and high load and widely open at the top end to allow more gas to get out there.
How can this be handled in our cars cause it´s stepless? The only way I could imagine is kinda new piggy back which determines boost, engine speed etc. and adjust those blades accordingly.
What do you guys think of this?

Gerd
 

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i doubt it would be that hard to make a programmable ecu to run it. i believe it caould function as that boost controller as well.... if the design is right it shouldnt need a wastegate at all anymore. it would need a pressure sensor, either its own or wired into a MAP sensor in the car, and tap into the tps and rpm wiring. with that it would have all the parameters it needs to generate its own vane angle/boost map, or run one that you have written for it.

also alot of people were talking about the weight of the system... without a wastegate the increase weight of the turbo should be prettymuch negligible.... and none of the added weight in the turbo is rotation mass so spoolup is unneffected by it.
 

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Right, I think also that the weight isn´t a real argument contra this thing.
And I agree also that a programmable ECU for it shouldn´t be too hard to build.
It just needs kind of a map like the map ecu which adjust the angle of the blades according to the needs and I think also that with that a wastegate is no longer needed.. Also a nice plus point.

BTW I had already the chance to get a ride with a 997 turbo (auto) and it performs really well. The power curve is absolutely smooth and it pulls so strong from the bottom it doens´t feel as fast as it is in reality due to the missing "bang" after let´s say 3.5k rev´s.
 

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Grumpy said:
Not Porsche related, but over here we started getting the 3.0 liter inline 4 turbo diesel 2005+ Toyota Hilux, 4-Runners with VATN turbos. Pretty torquey little fokkers.

snatch two of them and send the turbos to me. I will make it work on a sequential twin.
 

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Diesel VATN turbo's will die on a petrol engine...Borg Warner/Porsche are the only ones to have got them going on a petrol engine...I wouldn't be surprised if they are made of unobtanium!! ;)

Garrett were working on smaller VATN turbo's but I don't know if they were petrol or diesel based.

As for controlling VATN it's going to be pretty easy for a standalone...it's only going to be a voltage feed...
 

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If I remember right, Sport Compact Car used a VATN turbo on their old Project MR2 write up about 8 years ago. They went into a lot of depth on the functionality of the turbo's. VERY cutting edge and untested at the time. I don't remember the results of that turbo exactly because they switched it out for a standard turbo shortly after.

Someone could look up the write up. I think the whole project is floating around online somewhere. I downloaded it a long time ago but no longer have it. It is definitely worth taking a look at.
 
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