[ThomsonCharm]

OK guys im starting this thread for any of the guys who are having/have had problems with the W58. If you have ANY experiences with the W58 if you could please post in here you specific incident, what went wrong if anything, the clutch you were using, the year of the tranny, the power output of your motor, and your driving style. Otherwise lets get as much information as we can about these trannies so we can see if they are actually very strong or if there are some weak links. IF there are weak links maybe if we can pin point it actions can be made to remedy these links. SO post up and if I get enough popularity with this thread maybe the mods could sticky it?

 

[mkivsoopra]

umm... I think mine is just getting worn. 1st and 2nd gear synchros starting to go. When cold, it's difficult to shift into 1st, and 2nd gear grinds if I shift at a natural speed. Need to "rest" in neutral for about 2 seconds to avoid grinding 2nd. Reverse can be difficult to get into when cold. Also sometimes difficult to shift out of reverse.

-oem clutch
-started noticing symptoms around 80k miles, currently 95k
-oil changed at 80k to RP
-1993 tranny (and car)
-not abused
-stock power levels

I've seen a bunch of MKIII threads regarding the W58 with similar problems.

 

[SSSUPRA]

Mine took the quick route to the garbage. One thing I learned is to always use a sprung hub clutch with that tranny and if you are turbo start saving for a 6 speed. Also I never had synchro problems either, just broke the actual gears.

 

[RabidChild]

Mine is just wearing out too. It's been between 0 and 10 degrees out this week and first and reverse are really hard to find sometimes. Once the car warms up, all is good though.

 

[DaveH]

To the guys with cold shifting probs, change out the oil to fresh synthetic (I like Mobil1 75-90 gear oil) if you haven't recently.

 

[SoAngel]

'93 SC300 w/ W58 trans
448rwhp @ 14psi

Never powershifted, rarely launched, street tires only, only racing from rolls ...

Here are my troubles...

Flywheel bolts keep backing out. I have had to pull the tranny and tighten them 3 times now, even with locktight.

First clutch - ClutchNet - strongest one they make, lasted less than 4,000 miles, torn to shreds, absolute trash.

Installed second clutch, HorsePowerFreaks, sprung with ACT Pressure Plate. Flywheel bolts backed out after 400 miles. Again after 1,200 miles.

At 2,000 miles, tranny shattered. 3rd gear was the first to go, pieces flew over and took out 1st gear. 3/4 fork was nearly broken, needed replaced, needed 4 new bearings and some other crap, was $1,300 in damage .. needless to say, I didn't fix it.

Replaced '93 W58 with '92 W58 from SC300.

At 1,600 miles, started having trouble ... wouldn't go into any gear. Pulled the tranny again. This time, flywheel bolts were loose enough that you could move it 1/4" with your hand, shake it anyway you want it. All of the bolts were loose except for 4 bolts, those 4 were totally broken in half. Pieces of those bolts messed up the HPF clutch and I am currently waiting on my new clutch from HPF. I suppose the tranny is ok.

The W58 is a time bomb, plain and simple.

 

[ThomsonCharm]

Thanks for the response guys. Now lets try some troubleshooting. It looks like Dave started out already with the synthetic oil change.

mkivsoopra: You didnt by chance notice alot of these symptoms AFTER you switched to the Royal Purple oil did you? It looks like according to what you posted once you switched to the Royal Purple tranny oil you started seeing the symptoms of your tranny having problems.

Angel: So you are saying the bolts keep coming loose from the flywheel and you have to retighten them? And they still continue to do so? When you got your new 92 W58 did you get a new flywheel too? Or maybe even new bolts? It looks like RPS used Heli-Coil locking inserts on their newer clutches to fix a similar problem on the carbon carbon clutch for the 6 speeds. I think these bolts loosening sounds like its causing the flywheel or clutch assembly to come loose then screw up the distribution of rotating weight on the input shaft and causing it to hit gears within the gearbox and knock everything hard enough to break it especially at 2000+ rpms. Now where the bolts were coming loose do you think it would be possible to machine the metal and retap it to allow for thicker bolts to be used in place of the problematic ones? These symptoms sound more like a bad or faulty clutch assembly as opposed to the transmission itself. Depending on if the "flywheel bolts" were the ones attaching the flywheel to the clutch or the flywheel to the motors crank.

Anyone else have any problems by using tranny lubricants that were NOT Toyota? Some of you might think this sounds far fetched but the W160s have the same problem you NEED to use the Toyota lubricant because the other lubricants are too harsh for some of the internal seals in the tranny and eat away at them and cause problems. So from now on if you guys could also specify which tranny fluid you are using too it would help alot. I feel we are actually getting somewhere here.

I have had the Royal Purple oil sitting in my tranny for a while now and noticed that it was really tough to put my transmission in gear after I got my car to drive for only a little bit. And by little bit I mean to the end of the driveway and back as my car is having other issues too. Dont know if this is it for sure but if enough cases come up its a possibility.

 

[vreaux728645]

So far, so good for me. My problem is uninsured motorists! I've been hit by 2 in the past 2 years despite the laws in my area. ThomsomCharm, does mileage mean anything? For the record, I'm currently at 47k. For a yardstick, we might check with drjones & BrysonK on the mkiii forum as they went n/a-T with the W58. drjones ate his up with 400+ rwhp, but I don't know how long he drove it at that level. N/a-T owners might want to monitor Bryson as his conversion is recent. Just my .02

 

[lexcoupe]

my w58 is from a 92 with 120k miles, i have had the stock clutch since ive owned the car from 2000. I drive it hard every once in a while, but not very often.

2nd gear slightly grinds on cold days or when the motor hasnt warmed up yet. When the motor is warm it shifts fine. Other than that it has held the stock power pretty well.

My car is in the shop now getting NA-T. I have a RPS 6 puck clutch going on it with a new stock flywheel. We are putting a Redline tranny fluid into it also. My tech said that the tranny other than the slight grinding into 2nd is in good shape. I will let you know what kind of numbers i put down and what the tranny/clutch combo hold.

Kevin

 

[nwrzsup]

wow i thought i was the only one with this issue, the way scott b presented the problem is exactly how mine is, i have a 93.5, oem clutch, about to hit 100k miles. it really seems scary shifing from 1st to 2nd on a cold start, but when paused for a second or 2 in neutral and then into 2nd it goes in smooth, but it will only be harsh for a couple of times and then it will go in fine. one other thing, my car has difficulties going into first while in motion, i mean the car has to be amost dead stopped in order for it to go into first, and when i can't get it into first i have no choice but to go into second, for exampling rolling at a stop sign. but i too will change my tranny oil with redline and also the differentail and will post.
and if it is the synchros, how much do they cost? thanx ppl

 

[Flipn]

My tranny is a 93.5 with a HPF clutch ACT PP... 130k on the tranny.. slight grind on 2nd gear when the engine is cold but fine when warmed up... The cutch change was rescent so new fluid recently.. from the looks of it, the tranny will go at 400rwhp... which sucks..so there goes the 450rwhp goal..



Flipn (deeply depressed now)

 

[Khiladi1020]

My W58 is a 95 model, and I just passed 100K, original clutch and all. Driven hard just once in a while--only one real complaint: At freeway speeds, if I happen to be in neutral, and then shift back to 5th, there is a noticable grind. I have to be very gentle and make sure the clutch is COMPLETELY on the floor on that one.

 

[ChrisBergemann]

When you say the flywheel bolts backed out.... that's scarry. Most people have the pressure plate bolts back out. A flywheel loose can do a TON of damage, of course a pressure plate could do some damage as well but typically won't.

I torque both the flywheel bolts and the pressure plate bolts past the Toyota Specifications. I've done over 100 clutch installs on MK4 Supras (not the 5 speed tranny) and have not had one back out since this time. That's where my clutch replacement article came from.

This may sound excessive, but I put my air gun on setting # 3 (it has 4 settings) and I let it crank in the flywheel bolts until it can't put them any tighter. For the pressure plate bolts, I use a 12mm metric wrench and put them in as tight as I can by hand. That is a little 12mm metric wrench so I'm not sure how much torque that ends up being. The reason I use a wrench is because for the MK4 turbo tranny you put the tranny on first, then tighten the pressure plate bolts second and it's easier to get to them with a wrench.

I'm not saying to do exactly what I do, but if you're having problems and you are putting the bolts to factory specs try putting them in with about 15-25% more torque.

Take care,
Chris.

 

[ThomsonCharm]

vreaux728645: Mileage wont matter as much as your driving style and how you drive the car. I am just trying to use this as a gauge to maybe worn gears or worn synchros.

To all the guys having problems with the grinding when it is cold this has ALOT to do with the transimission oil you are using and its characteristics in warm and cold weather. Basically the oils job is to stick to all the internal moving metal parts and when they "contact" the film of oil is to lubricate and keep them from actually hitting metal to metal greatly reducing the wear of the parts in your transmission. Now the rating on your transmission oil will show you what type of characteristics to expect from that transmission oil. Lets take for example 75W-90 what this number means is that when the oil is cool it acts as a 75 weight oil and once it is warmed up it will act as a 90 weight oil. A lower viscosity number will signify a thinner mixture meaning it will flow around easier and a higher number will show a thicker mixture that "sticks" to the internal parts better creating a film that is harder to penetrate by the internal parts of your transmission. In other words when you first start up your car and the oil is cold it is not sticking to the gears as well causing the metal to metal "grind" because at cold temperatures the oil "falls off" of the gears inside because of its thinner mixture but as the oil within the transmission heats up it gains this "sticky" property and binds to the gears better a WAA LAA no more grinding because the metal is not making contact to other metal parts as the oil is doing its job. So in knowing this hopefully it helps to show that the transmission oil is very important in maintaining the transmission and increasing its life.

Also as I said be weary of some of the additives put into different oils as they MAY eat away at some of the factory Toyota seals within the transmission causing more problems. I have used Royal Purple for mine and have been noticing some strange symptoms that were not there before so until I find out WHY I would suggest something besides Royal Purple.

Chris: Thanks for the advise it should go a long way in reducing future problems.

 

[btm7687]

i also have the same problem on cold days....for about the first 2 minutes after the car is on....i only make about 2 1-2 shifts, and sometimes for those 2 i need to pause a little in neutral first....its not like its grinding...just really...i dunno a little grainy....you can feel it go in but its not silky smooth, and i know its a sport gear box and it shouldnt feel silky smooth like my friends 7th gen accord....or should it?

 

[Scott 8]

I had the problem when cold. All I have to say is redline mt-90 is great !!!!

 

[ThomsonCharm]

I had the problem when cold. All I have to say is redline mt-90 is great !!!!

So in other words the new redline transmission oil solved your problem?

 

[Scott 8]

Yes, I replaced the oil with redline mt- 90, 2 days ago and the 2 cold starts i have had sence then shifting into second has been much easier, it does not grind but still not really really smooth. If someone is having trouble like I was shifting into second when cold I would highly recomend the redline oil. All around shifting is smoother, and a VERY noticable difference when cold.

 

[supra4me]

As far as the w58 sucking for boost, has anyone tried building the tranny to handle more power or is that a complete waste. Is the 5spd worth salvaging or should everyone do what SSSUPRA did and do 6spd swap. SSSUPRA, do you mind telling how much the complete install costed and was it done by you or someone else? Right now I am only 10psi so about 340-50whp, if I plan in the future to go w/ more boost I am assuming to expect problems b/c it sounds like most are haveing trouble after the 400whp mark.

 

[ThomsonCharm]

As far as the w58 sucking for boost, has anyone tried building the tranny to handle more power or is that a complete waste. Is the 5spd worth salvaging or should everyone do what SSSUPRA did and do 6spd swap. SSSUPRA, do you mind telling how much the complete install costed and was it done by you or someone else? Right now I am only 10psi so about 340-50whp, if I plan in the future to go w/ more boost I am assuming to expect problems b/c it sounds like most are haveing trouble after the 400whp mark.

Ill look into building a W58 up. Right now I just want to get my car to run but if I have to pull the motor and replace the rings then while I am in the process of doing that I will take apart the tranny and see what the weak points are and see about maybe getting it rebuilt stronger. If its too much trouble or money to polish a turd then ill probably end up with a V160 or a R154.