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Discussion Starter #1
So this question is mainly to the physics/math geeks out there, so here goes: If car A weighs 3550 and dyno's 950 whp (Supra) and car B weighs 2440 and dyno's 700 whp (i.e. a late 80s 3.4 liter stroked 930 with a custom T04-66), who do you think should win a 60-160 highway run based purely on the cars? I don't know the torque of the 930 but assume 6xx. CoD on the 930 is a few hundreds higher than the Supra (.38 or so I believe). I'm most curious as to how vehicle weight factors into a highway roll and if you can simply assume a car is faster from a 60 roll based on a lower weight/hp calculation (3.73 for the Supra vs. 3.48 for the 930). Also curious as to if anyone has run a 930 like the one described.

Thanks for the on-topic comments...:)

And to the person who guesses right (and by how many car lengths) I'll figure out a special prize to send. Video to follow in a couple months.....
 

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Sticky tires or no sticky tires?
Wheel size?

Well the lighter car should pick up and go, for a few sec but the supra should reach 160 faster then the 700 whp.
 

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Definately going to be a good race..from a roll I would put my money on the supra to reach 160 first.
Sorry dont have any mathmatical equations to back it up..

I am assuming that you already have a chase vehicle to video.. PM me let me know.

Edited for spelling.
 

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Damn, let me know when this shit is going to go down, I don't want to miss that!

As far as who will win, I think you have to take gearing, and also power under the curve into consideration. It's not as simple as Cd, RWHP, and mass. There are other factors to consider. Regardless, I'm sure it will be a close race.
 

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There are way to many factors to take into consideration.
The supra's power to wieght ratio = 3.74 lb/HP
The other's power to weight ratio = 3.49 lb/HP

Car B weighs 69% that of a supra
Car B has 74% of the supra power.

Not counting Aerodynamics, traction, and driver.

It will mostly be based on gearing of the cars.
Assuming both are manuals.

Anyone can win, but my money is on the Supra, if it can achieve max boost early enough. I say 4 car lengths.

What exactly is the other car?
You can look up the drag coefficients for the two cars and determine the amount of energy required to go from 60 to 160 mph.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
It's an 86 930. I read somewhere the Cod is .38.

He's running an aftermarket 5 speed instead of the OEM 4 speed. He mentioned it's gear to over 200 mph. Also has a stroked 3.4l motor. I know it's tough to internet race these two cars, just curious what an 1100 weight advantage with 250 whp disadvantage would do on the highway against my set-up.

Only one way to find out and I will. Should have video in a couple months.
 
A

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Once you get past 60MPH, aero plays a HUGE roll in acceleration. HP/weight dominates at low speed where air resistance doesn't play much of a roll. But once you start going faster, your available acceleration HP drops rapidly as more and more horses go just to overcome air drag (rolling resistance is minor by comparison). This is why the G forces of acceleration aren't much at 100MPH (even in a 600HP car) compared to 25MPH. If you were driving on the moon (no air), you would accelerate just as fast from 100-150MPH as 25-75MPH, again miscounting the minor effect of rolling resistance.

So, to correctly answer the question, one variable is left. Frontal area. The amount of air drag on a vehicle is based upon velocity, drag coefficient, and frontal area.

Of course, we still won't get accurate results, because we would still be assuming we are using the maximum HP for each car every moment of the race. Doesn't happen. The gearing, and more directly how well the gearing keeps the engine performing at it's peak (or near peak) HP. Your average HP output during the race is likely to be <80% of the peak RWHP.
 

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My money is on the Supra with ease. Aero and SHEER HP to cut through the wind are far more important than power/weight at very high speeds. Plus Supra gearing rocks, especially with extended redline. A Supra with 8500 rpm redline would be able to hit 200 mph in 5th gear, which would make it damn near unbeatable at high speed by all but the most extreme cars if also packing 950 RWHP! That Supra would also be able to get very close to 160 mph in 4th gear!! The Porsche is toast, even moreso as speed increases. :D

I have a mph magazine article where the 550 HP/5000+ lb (yes 5000!) Bentley Continental GT did 201 mph and had considerably better high speed accel than the Aston Martin Vanquish and probably no aero advantage at all, plus the Vanquish had better power/weight, it was sheer HP in action. The Vanquish won the 1/4 but the Bentley reeled it in as speed increased.
 

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I think i know the pcar your talking about, its the red one as far as i can remember and steve raced him in a talon (500 some whp) over a year ago and won slightly.

Anything below 70 and he has you, start from 80 on and its your win. Brake boost is your friend on that 76mm with no juice. Go to 200mph.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Different car. It's black and was out for most of last year installing new mods. IIRC, he was a bit over 420 rwhp up until that point.
 

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Jamie,

Did you go from 833 whp to 950 whp like we discussed or did you just get a bigger turbo? FWIW, I think AnarKey and BLITZSUPRA pretty much have you covered here. Those '86 911s have a lot of frontal area with that upright windshield. Once the weight of a vehicle has already been accelerated and on the move, in general, he who has the most power wins. Good luck and don't miss any gears!

Ken.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Hi Ken,

No, I skipped the stroker route (too $$$) and went the fully built route using the best of everything. We're going with the tried and true GT42-76, Veilside, 4 row, etc. We were forced to do this much earlier than planned - don't ask :( as there's a small lawsuit involved, so work was started last November and should be complete in a couple weeks. Can't wait!!! We were hoping to get it done in time for Tx, but Headgames was really slow in getting the head back to us.

I'll email you when it's finished. Justin is coming in a few weeks so looking for some good dyno numbers. Then it's time to roll the video camera and have some fun. There are a number of cars that should give way to some good footage, including that nasty 930!!!

BTW, congrats on a great AW article - I was reading it while the kids were in the bathtub and accidentally swore in front of them as I couldn't believe AW actually covered a Supra instead of the typical cars!!! Out of all the cars to cover, they picked the right one!
 

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Sorry to hear that your built motor plans became a requirement rather than an option (at least that's the way it sounds). Your build-up really sounds righteous....and you've got the very best doing your head. Should make for some special numbers.

I recall you have an affinity for roll-on racing so my money is on you anyway. Still taking no prisoners with the Audi? Good luck, bud.

Ken.

P.S. Thanks for the kind words about AutoWeek.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Yea, thanks, I'm looking forward to getting everything complete and on the dyno. It's hard to be patient when the weather starts getting better.

The Audi has been stored since November (Ohio sucks), but I'm getting it ready to run some stroked EVO's in a couple weeks at a Norwalk event. Buschur Racing supposedly has some faster customer cars this year to run against on the highway, so we'll see how I do. If it's one thing I've learned, everything gets faster each year. But it's fun having a target on your back inside a 4 door luxury family sedan (at least for awhile).
 

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My awd talon making ~500whp(2980lbs with driver, ~128mph traps) walked SHOCKM pretty easily from a 60 roll. But that was when he was making 420rwhp. SHOCKM is going to be hard to touch with 300 more hp. That and he has the balls to take it past 200.

I am definitely rooting for someone to kick his ass this year. He HATES losing. Especially to something that isn't a porsche. The look on his face after losing to a 10 year old 4 banger with a 19 year old driver was priceless.
 

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ohioko4s4 said:
Hi Ken,

No, I skipped the stroker route (too $$$) and went the fully built route using the best of everything. We're going with the tried and true GT42-76, Veilside, 4 row, etc. We were forced to do this much earlier than planned - don't ask :( as there's a small lawsuit involved, so work was started last November and should be complete in a couple weeks. Can't wait!!! We were hoping to get it done in time for Tx, but Headgames was really slow in getting the head back to us.

I'll email you when it's finished. Justin is coming in a few weeks so looking for some good dyno numbers. Then it's time to roll the video camera and have some fun. There are a number of cars that should give way to some good footage, including that nasty 930!!!

BTW, congrats on a great AW article - I was reading it while the kids were in the bathtub and accidentally swore in front of them as I couldn't believe AW actually covered a Supra instead of the typical cars!!! Out of all the cars to cover, they picked the right one!
OT.

You post states that Justin Nenni is coming to OH in a couple of weeks. Could we work something out to have my car available for his services when he is in OH?

Currently, I am waiting on SP for the turbo kit to arrive. Tim I. is doing some engine work for me and the tuning is up in the air. With this caliber of expertise available in OH, I would really like to benefit from this opportunity.

Please PM me about.

FYI, my car is planned to be ready at the end of April. I may have to roll on spares and IS300 wheels since my current forgelines were sold and my new forgelines under construction till late April early May.

DP
 

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Suprafied said:
OT.

You post states that Justin Nenni is coming to OH in a couple of weeks. Could we work something out to have my car available for his services when he is in OH?

Currently, I am waiting on SP for the turbo kit to arrive. Tim I. is doing some engine work for me and the tuning is up in the air. With this caliber of expertise available in OH, I would really like to benefit from this opportunity.

Please PM me about.

FYI, my car is planned to be ready at the end of April. I may have to roll on spares and IS300 wheels since my current forgelines were sold and my new forgelines under construction till late April early May.

DP
If you can't get Justin, I could help you out with the tuning.
 

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Skeletor said:
My awd talon making ~500whp(2980lbs with driver, ~128mph traps) walked SHOCKM pretty easily from a 60 roll. But that was when he was making 420rwhp. SHOCKM is going to be hard to touch with 300 more hp. That and he has the balls to take it past 200.

I am definitely rooting for someone to kick his ass this year. He HATES losing. Especially to something that isn't a porsche. The look on his face after losing to a 10 year old 4 banger with a 19 year old driver was priceless.
I HUNT V8

:cool:
 
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