What Is Going On!!!!!!

1143 Views 15 Replies 3 Participants Last post by traxon, Dec 4, 2001

G

Discussion Starter · Nov 14, 2001

Ok, first of all, I had an rps 6-puck clutch (w/light flywheel and sprung disc) in my car and it exploded while I was driving a few weeks ago. So I replaced it with an AZ clutch and a new stock flywheel. Two weeks later it stopped working. I kept having to bring the clutch pedal out further and further for it to engage, and finally it stopped engaging completely. Everything sounded/smelled/felt normal otherwise. I figured either it was just out of adjustment somehow, or else one of my cylinders was screwed up. Well I just had the dealership that installed it take a look at it. They said the disc is completely worn down to nothing, almost to the rivots. That's why it wasn't engaging, it was just too thin. The clutch seemed perfect friday afternoon and by friday evening it was completely destroyed, within only a few hours of driving. I can't even imagine what could have happened. All I know is that I just spent 2 grand for a whole new clutch setup that only lasted 2 weeks, and I'm not too happy. I've been very easy on the clutch since I got it; most of the time I was just breaking it in. So WTF happened?? Everyone is saying the clutch disc is obviously at fault, but I don't believe that. There's gotta be something else that's putting way too much pressure on it somehow. I've gone through 5 or 6 clutches so far, mostly in the last year, and I rarely race or turn up the boost. The only clutches that have worked correctly in my car were stock. I would do anything to have an automatic right now.. my 6spd is just nothing but problems.

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RSA Supra

· #2 · Nov 14, 2001

traxon said:
I would do anything to have an automatic right now.. my 6spd is just nothing but problems.

Man, that sucks I'm sorry to hear that. Have you been using the same pressure plate the whole time? Its hard to believe that you would wear out a clutch in 2 weeks of normal driving. I too rarely turn up my boost or race.

If it makes you feel any better, had both my stock auto and a Level 10 tranny blow up w/ in the last year and a half. Cost: ~$10k. Had I known that that was going to happen, I might have switched to 6-speed.

Whoever you bought the clutch from ought to stand behind their product and replace it for you. And you should have the slave cylider and pressure plate inspected/replaced, and them make sure that the free travel in the clutch pedal is correctly adjusted. I know that when we first installed an RPS pressure plate w/ a stock flywheel and clutch disk in my buddy's car, it was very hard to engage and would almost not go into reverse. Once we adjusted the pedal correctly in engaged very nicely.

If the dealership has been adjusting the pedal, I wonder if it is possible that they didn't properly tighten the adjustment bolt and the adjustment slowly got out of whack. It still can't see how the clutch disk wore away so fast.

Good Luck!

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G

Discussion Starter · #3 · Nov 14, 2001

They screwed up the install. I have a AZ disc and it certainly isn't doing that for me. Mine is broken in now, and I really love it. Are you using a RPS Pressure Plate with it?

They ever do a high-performance clutch install on a MKIV before? The guy who did mine had done it so many times he could practically do it with his eyes closed.

Any clutch gurus can speak to what screw up on install can do this?

G

Discussion Starter · #4 · Nov 14, 2001

I've been using the same type of pressure plate most of the time, the rps turbo claw. I really don't know where to put the blame.. the pressure plate, disc, install, or maybe something else. It seems as if the pedal is still adjusted correctly. I know there's supposed be a tiny bit of movement in the pedal before it does anything, which is still there. I'm stumped. My best guess is that it wasn't installed correctly. Maybe they even realized that and don't want to admit it. I don't think the mechanic had much experience with any aftermarket parts. There's really nobody that works on supras around here, so I don't know where else to take my car.

Silver Orchid SP60

· #5 · Nov 14, 2001

Did you replace the flywheel or have it resurfaced? I have used Ryans clutch, it's incredible. I cant see it failing like that although anything is possible. Did you put at least 500 miles of stop and go driving on the clutch? I cant imagine you did if it failed in 2 wks. When I break in my clutches I keep the revs under 4k and very little boost for the first 500 miles. I am not talking highway miles either, it makes a major difference. If the clutch is not broken im properly it will fail.

supra6spd

· #6 · Nov 14, 2001

"Ok, first of all, I had an rps 6-puck clutch (w/light flywheel and sprung disc) in my car and it exploded while I was driving a few weeks ago. "

"Exploded"?????, what the hell is the big God Damn mystery with the supra and its aftermarket clutch setups.
I haven't been able to drive mine in over two months.

I had the RPS stage 3 (w/light flywhell and sprung disc) installed and it's been nothing but trouble. No one wants to take the blame i.e., RPS, place that installed it, or the place I bought it from.

Also, I ended up having to buy a new short block, etc (it's being installed as we speak) and the guys doing the install are saying that it looks like the clutch may have caused the rod damage from the crank being pulled/pushed an improper distance??
Not sure how accurate of a description that was...but, they said my motor damage could have been clutch related.

G

Discussion Starter · #7 · Nov 14, 2001

AZ clutch

Traxon,
I installed my AZ clutch, RPS stage 3 PP, New Flywheel and have not had any problems. A little bit of chatter...thats it. I wonder if they installed the clutch backwards....very easy to do. If not then they sure as hell did not adjust the pp tension and it was slipping like a MOFO. Sorry about your luck.
If you want to feel what the clutch typicaly feels like and compare with what yours felt like then send me a email. Im in Southfield and happen to have my car with me.

Don

G

Discussion Starter · #8 · Nov 14, 2001

Hmmm......you should try and figure out what caused the first clutch to explode, and then go from there. Clutch cannop push or pull the crank, it just rides on it, and if the disc is constantly in contact with the flywheel you can feel it, and you can't pop it in neutral.

My guess is the shop installed the disk the wrong way, with threaded center extension pointing back......or skipped a step and excluded one or several washers/wave washer or cone washer.

G

Discussion Starter · #9 · Nov 14, 2001

Yep, I replaced the flywheel, pressure plate, disc, bearings, etc. Yes my last disc pretty much exploded. I had the rps 6 puck disc. And the springs broke apart and fell out and jammed up everything.

supra6spd, my original shortblock got destroyed as a result of a faulty clutch install. They adjusted my master cylinder for unknown reasons and it caused hydrolic pressure to remain in the system, pushing on the crankshatt constantly, which eventually ruined all my main bearings in the motor. It finally died when one of the thrust bearings disintigrated and fell out, causing the crank to move back and forth so far that the rods got jammed up.

Thanks for the info, everyone. I'm thinking the disc must be in backwards. The mechanic at the shop did mention to me that he put the disc in backwards but then realized it and flipped it around. So maybe he had it right the first time... I don't know why he even mentioned that to me; that's not exactly the sort of thing you should be telling your customers, lol. I hope that's the prob, in which case I might be able to get them to cover the damage. I plan on going down there with my friend so we can witness them take it apart. I don't trust them. I bet if they notice it was in backwards they'll flip it around and say that's how it was, then I'll be screwed.

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supra6spd

· #10 · Nov 14, 2001

Traxon,
Man you hit the nail on the head. That is exactly what happened to me!!!!!!!!!!
You are the first person to describe( to a "T" ) what went wrong. The guys at Toyota keep telling me I was running to much boost

with the stock twins

and thats why the motor "went".
Could you please tell me how to MAKE SURE THIS DOES NOT HAPPEN again with my brand new short block.
Everything is going in TODAY. How do I know if this "master cylinder" is adjusted properly?
I can not afford to go through this-- new motor/clutch every couple of months.

I'd love to have Toyota pay for all this(seeing how it isn't every day 2JZ-GTE's w/ 64k miles on them) need replaced.

G

Discussion Starter · #11 · Nov 14, 2001

The pushing on the crank followed by thrust bearing failure then total destruction is exactly what happens when the crank is subjected to constant pushing from the rear. This can also happen on automatic cars. Lots of Grand Nationals have this problem, when a torque converter fails and "balloons" or grows outward from pressure, thereby pushing on the flywheel/crank.

When you think about it, the engagement has to be perfect. Too little and it never "grabs" fully, and can slip all the time, burning the clutch up quickly. This is what happened to Traxon I bet. As it wore down the level of engagement he was getting when letting off the clutch pedal got less until it was finally gone. On the other hand, too much and it ends up pressing on the crank and wiping a shortblock out.

My only advise is try your hardest to find a place that has done this before. Talk to the guy who is going to do the work, make sure he has done performance clutches on a MKIV before, and that they didn't have any install related problems.

The sheer number of terror stories I have heard in both this and the Turbo Buick community from sloppy work is frightening. Before you leave your car with anyone, do yourself a big favor and make sure they know what they are doing, and have done it before.

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G

Discussion Starter · #12 · Nov 14, 2001

AnArKey, I still wouldn't expect my disc to wear down THAT fast. Literally it seemed perfect, then 3 hours later it was completely dead. Even while it was dying it still seemed to be grabbing extremely hard. But who knows, maybe it was slipping badly all the time and I just couldn't tell. Man.. I never realized how crucial a clutch install was, or how many ways it was possible to screw up the install.

supra6spd, yeah dude, that majorly sucks. I have no idea how to guarantee it won't happen again. I do know that there is supposed to be a tiny bit of play in the clutch pedal before it starts pulling on anything. If you push on it almost as light as you can you should be able to feel it move freely for maybe 1/4 of a inch. Then from that point there should be more resistance. It took a long time to figure out what had happened to my motor. All the mechanics around here were certain that the pressure plate was just too strong and was bound to destroy the crank. Eventually they determined that the pressure plate worked backwards from most, and it wasn't even possible for it to cause damage to the thrust surface of the crank, which ruled that out.

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G

Discussion Starter · #13 · Dec 4, 2001

Well I FINALLY got the dealership to take my tranny out, after almost 2 1/2 weeks. They kept making up excuses, I think because they were trying to get me to take it somewhere else so they couldn't be held responsible. I dunno. I didn't get a chance to look at everything yet, but I probably will later today. They said the flywheel, clutch, and disc are all completely smoked. I was just wondering if I should get yet another rps pressure plate and AZ disc, or if I should get something completely different this time. So far, I've had nothing but catestrophic problems with setups using the rps pressure plate and 6 puck discs, although I think that's just a coincidence... or installation probs. If there's anyone that could hook me up with some good prices on a new clutch, flywheel, and disc I'd really really appreciate it, in case I can't get the dealership to cover it (assuming it's their fault). I Really don't have the money to fix it anymore, so I dunno what I'm going to do.

G

Discussion Starter · #14 · Dec 4, 2001 (Edited)

I forgot to ask.. does anyone know the clutch setup in supras well? (Recall that I have a stock flywheel, rps pressure plate, and AZ 6 puck disc). Are there any washers or anything that could have been left out? From what I heard, it's basically just the flywheel, throwout bearing, disc, pressure plate, and pilot bearing, and that's it. And supposedly the master cylinder is 100% self-adjusting right? To me it sounds like there IS no way they could have installed it wrong, unless they put the disc backwards.

supra6spd

· #15 · Dec 4, 2001

traxon said:
I forgot to ask.. does anyone know the clutch setup in supras well? (Recall that I have a stock flywheel, rps pressure plate, and AZ 6 puck disc). Are there any washers or anything that could have been left out? From what I heard, it's basically just the flywheel, throwout bearing, disc, pressure plate, and pilot bearing, and that's it. And supposedly the master cylinder is 100% self-adjusting right? To me it sounds like there IS no way they could have installed it wrong, unless they put the disc backwards.

I've got an idea. How about for the $2,000.00 we spend on these clutches we get a simple diagram showing EXACTLY which way these clutches go togeter(washers, bearings, clutch plate,etc). I'd even be willing to pick up the $.05 cost that it would take to photo copy and include this diagram with each clutch purchas for all MKIV supras.

I've gone through this nightmare of having to have the clutch installed 3 times before it works(finally found a MKIV expert) & having to replace the short block...blah, blah, blah
and I wouldn't wish that on anybody, well almost nobody.
Traxon, good luck with everything.

G

Discussion Starter · #16 · Dec 4, 2001

Yeah, for real. This is insanity. I'm tempted to either sell my car or rip out my 6spd and put in an auto tranny just so I don't have any more clutch problems. I can't take it anymore.

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