[King_Rob]

The head that I have has an almost complete valvetrain. However, I am unsure of what it is missing on the top. I need to know what to order from Toyota, so I can complete this head. I have posted pictures below of the topmost piece on it now. So if someone can tell me what that piece is and what all will need to go on top of it to complete the head - that would be great.

Thanks guys,
Rob

 

[JSS829]

at least some shim buckets and shims, cams, intake manifold gasket, exhaust manifold gasket

 

[SJ]

shims and buckets

 

[Ryan23]

Buckets...shims...cam caps (I hope you have those!). Brace yourself for the price on new buckets and shims though... they are not cheap. Your best bet is find someone who has a set off of an extra head that they want to part with. Either peruse the classifieds or put up a wanted ad.

Ryan

 

[theman]

It's not exactly as easy as "order some shims and buckets"

If you want us to be exact and this picture shows all that you actually have then... You'll need shims, buckets, cams, cam caps, cam cap bolts.
BUT the important part isthat you should get everything except shims to start.
Shims come in various sizes so that you get correct valve clearance... so get everything else on there and determine the measurements for the proper shim thickness, then you can order those.
Not to mention if you really do need cam caps, then those would be bolted on first and if they don't match up perfectly to that particular head casting then you'll have to have it line honed to get the bores exact for the cams to fit properly.

Never had to order cam caps separately so I'm not sure how good another set would match up...

 

[Ryan23]

It's not exactly as easy as "order some shims and buckets"

If you want us to be exact and this picture shows all that you actually have then... You'll need shims, buckets, cams, cam caps, cam cap bolts.
BUT the important part isthat you should get everything except shims to start.
Shims come in various sizes so that you get correct valve clearance... so get everything else on there and determine the measurements for the proper shim thickness, then you can order those.
Not to mention if you really do need cam caps, then those would be bolted on first and if they don't match up perfectly to that particular head casting then you'll have to have it line honed to get the bores exact for the cams to fit properly.

Never had to order cam caps separately so I'm not sure how good another set would match up...

And, pray tell, how is he going to determine the correct valve clearance without any shims to start with? You are correct though, swapping cam caps is a no-no for those reasons. If he purchased the head new, it came with cam caps. They are numbered and indicated with an "e" or "I" to tell you where the go.

Ryan

 

[WEST]

I think cam caps can ONLY be bought with the head.

 

[King_Rob]

First off, thanks for all the help. I do have the cams and gaskets (not pictured), but the head did not come with caps when I bought it and I did not realize that you could not buy them separately until I contacted Jeff Watson. I posted about the caps a while back. A guy saw my post and offered me some caps and cap bolts off a junked head he had - said it would be worth a shot. They should be here Monday of next week. Here's the pic of them:

Hopefully they will work. Any idea on the price of shims/buckets? Shims have to be specially made for each head? How do I go about checking valve clearance? How will I know if these cam caps work or not?

This head is turning into a horrible buy. I wish I hadn't purchased it last summer and waited until I knew more. Anyway, thanks again guys.

 

[brian94ht]

Rob,

You can buy shim buckets seperate from the head, LMK if you need some Rob, I have a brand new set I would sell you cheaper than any of our suppliers. Should have sent them with the caps!

 

[King_Rob]

Brian - you're a lifesaver man. I was just thinking about e-mailing you to see if you had some before I came back to check the post. Lets work something out so I can finish this god forsaken thing.


-Rob

 

[theman]

Well Ryan I guess that's the catch 22 isn't it? Buy a whole set of shims and hope that you only need to buy a few more to swap in for the correct clearances... Or if he was anywhere nearby someone like myself, as you are, I would gladly let him borrow a spare set of shims so that he could get his specs figured out before purchasing the exact set he needs.
That's the cool thing about a forum and the community, that this might be a possiblity when the info is posted, since most of us are here to help.

Anyway, I've never had the misfortune of getting a head w/out caps, and I believe WEST is right, a new head casting comes with matching caps from Toyota since they are honed together, and they probably aren't available separately. But if he could happen across a set from another source then the line-honing them to match still applies regardless.

 

[brian94ht]

Didnt i read somewhere that a member found some bearings that will fit our cams, line bored the cam journals and now has 2JZ cams with bearings? this might be a very last resort.

Rob if you need those buckets PM me!

 

[theman]

Actually line-honing the head with the caps is not too bad... Costs about $260 including shipping, but there aren't a lot of machine shops that can still do that on the longer inline 6 cylinder head.

I'll see if I can dig up the info on the place my machine shop used in NY for doing a head a while back when the cam journals were found to be all chewed up on a teardown and I had everything redone...

 

[King_Rob]

Maybe I'm stupid, but I don't see how some Toyota assembly-line-made factory parts will not work more universally. I find it very hard to believe that there is some Toyota gnome personally hand-line-honing every head to match every little cap. It seems to me that it cannot be that difficult to get caps to match my head - they have to be mass produced in a factory - it's not like Toyota gets an order for a new head and spends 3 months hand making a head, calculating every little nut and bolt that goes into it with advanced calculus.


-Rob

 

[mkivbren]

Maybe I'm stupid, but I don't see how some Toyota assembly-line-made factory parts will not work more universally. I find it very hard to believe that there is some Toyota gnome personally hand-line-honing every head to match every little cap. It seems to me that it cannot be that difficult to get caps to match my head - they have to be mass produced in a factory - it's not like Toyota gets an order for a new head and spends 3 months hand making a head, calculating every little nut and bolt that goes into it with advanced calculus.


-Rob

test that theory of yours, take her up to 8 grand and report back with your findings. Or save yourself now and take the advice that has been graciously given.

 

[King_Rob]

I'm not getting angry or unappreciative - I'm just curious. You don't have to fly in and treat me like a fool over it. I just like to know more than "NO". Sometimes I enjoy a reasonable explanation for things, thats all. Everyone treats it like it's so impossible and it's discouraging.

-Rob

 

[mkivbren]

I know, I see that your new. It's just that your kind of questioning facts, given to you by a few of the most respected and trusted members on the forum. Your already in a bit over your head, I would hate it to get worse for you.

 

[Ryan23]

Anyway, I've never had the misfortune of getting a head w/out caps, and I believe WEST is right, a new head casting comes with matching caps from Toyota since they are honed together, and they probably aren't available separately. But if he could happen across a set from another source then the line-honing them to match still applies regardless.

Yepper...get it line honed. One thing I would stress though is check your clearance. Plastigage from Autozone will "work" for this. Off the top of my head, I believe the clearance is .002 but look it up to be sure. I personally wouldn't swap cam caps but that's me. It looks like you're backed into a corner though. For the poster wondering why they are not swappable, it's because Toyota line hones them from the factory as a matched set. That's why they don't offer them separately. Certain parts are "meant" to be kept as a matched set...cam caps, main caps, rod caps, ETC. The clearances are tight enough with the cam caps that torquing in the wrong sequence or with the cam in the wrong position leads to a snapped cam. Not good....especially if you just dropped $800 on a set of "unwarrantee-able" cams.

Ryan

 

[theman]

And to add to Ryan's excellent explanation... with you acquiring a used head and a separate used cap set there are forces that have been working on these pieces in different cars under different variables. Which means the original shapes of these items may have also shifted with their originally paired pieces.

I should have the info on the place I used out here later today... but you may want to consider checking with a machine shop out on the west coast, you may have someone much closer with facilities to handle this kind of thing so it may cost you less than the $260 I had to spend.