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Discussion Starter #1
Hey guys, im racing the car next week, and need to get some good pads real quick! I plan on using Motul 5.1 Fluid, but I have no idea what pads to get (For the front, 4 pots). I know there is a brand named Hawk, I dont know anything about them, but here they are good. What would be the best ones for me? As in Part numbers??

Cheers
Shane
 
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My choice - performance friction 97's

I spent a day at a track this past week, and had brand new Performance Friction 97s. I thought they were freaking awesome! Check around, others think so too. AND once I got them really bedded down at the track, now on the street they are FINE! Literally almost no problem with initial bite even when cold - VERY contrary to everything else I've heard, which is that while these brakes are great at the track once they get warm, on the street they're very risky. Just has not been my experience.

Perf Friction 97's - that's my personal choice (and admittedly I have not tried others on track yet)


PS - get Superbleeders too - makes bleeding your brakes a snap! www.superbleeder.com I believe
 
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Yep, stock calipers and rotors. Getting them was easy - there's a racing parts place in Denver, 3R Racing, who's a dealer, called them, done. Tricky part is that rears are not normally made; I talked to someone at perf friction, he did some digging and discovered that they did in fact have some because they had made some for someone (who I guess ordered enough - order enough and they'll make anything!). Luckily they still had some in the warehouse; initially when I talked to 3R the guy there said there's none for the rears, I told him what Perf Friction told me, he called them and found out sure enough that he could get them.

And he did!

So just find a local dealer - if you can't find one on their website call them and they'll tell ya. Or do an internet order. Shouldnt be hard.
 

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I'd recommend the Carbotech XP10. I just ordered another set for my Supra. Many folks here have used them on track and recommended them.

Sorry, but I've never heard of anyone using Performance Friction stuff for a Supra. :dunno:
 

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quick said:
I'd recommend the Carbotech XP10. I just ordered another set for my Supra. Many folks here have used them on track and recommended them.

Sorry, but I've never heard of anyone using Performance Friction stuff for a Supra. :dunno:
I run XP9's and they are very good.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I bought EBC Red Stuff, they are great on the street, but will test them tommorow at the race track. Also put in Motul RBF600 Fluid.
 

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Bring extra pads. EBC reds can disappear in a hurry.

I run PF 97 and like how they perform
 

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I know Motul RBF600 is very good for track use, but has anyone had experience with long term street use? This suggests "don't do it".

I'll just cut & paste these comments I found a while back which suggest NOT using it on the street unless you change it often because it is very hydroscopic.



Brake Fluids
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Thanks to Dave Zeckhausen :
Lets look at what the DOT ratings mean. The table below shows the MINIMUM wet and dry boiling points for DOT 2, 3, 4, and 5 brake fluid in degrees fahrenheit.
DOT 2 DOT 3 DOT 4 DOT 5
Dry Boiling point 374 401 446 500
Wet boiling point 284 311 356


The DOT 2 spec is for drum brakes and is obsolete. If you have any DOT 2 in your garage, throw it away! DOT 5 is for silicone brake fluid. Silicone brake fluid (DOT 5) should be avoided because it is not compatible with regular brake fluid, it is hard to pour without introducing bubbles and thus results in soft pedal feel, and moisture still gets into your system and will pool in low areas like your calipers and encourage rapid corrosion. STAY AWAY!

That leaves DOT 3 and DOT 4 fluids. These fluids are compatible with each other and may be interchanged or mixed with no ill effects.

Let's look at some popular brake fluids and their boiling points:

Fluid DRY WET
Castrol LMA DOT 3/4 446 311
Ford Heavy Duty DOT 3 550 290
ATE Super Blue Racing 536 392
ATE TYP 200 536 392
Motul Racing 600 585 421
Castrol SRF 590 518
Performance Friction 550 284


Castrol LMA is very good at rejecting moisture and may be kept in your brake system for a couple years. The LMA stands for "Low Moisture Activity". This is the minimum quality stuff that I would use in my Impala. It comes in plastic containers which do not have a long shelf life. Don't buy lots of this stuff at a time because moisture can make its way through the plastic containers.

Ford Heavy Duty DOT 3 is VERY inexpensive and is popular among racers because of its excellent dry boiling point. It absorbs moisture quickly, but the racers don't care since they change their fluid frequently. Comes in metal cans so it may be stored. I would not use this in my Impala for the street.

ATE Super Blue Racing and ATE TYP 200 are the same brake fluid in two different colors (blue and amber, respectively). BMW recommends this brake fluid for their street cars because it, like Castrol LMA, absorbs moisture very slowly. The advantage over LMA is that ATE has a much better wet boiling point. You can put this stuff in your car and forget about it for a long time. An excellent choice for a weekend track car which also sees regular street duty. Comes in metal cans. This is what I use in all my street cars.

Motul Racing 600 is a very exotic and expensive synthetic fluid with high wet and dry boiling points. I use this exclusively in my race cars. Too expensive for the street and requires frequent changing due to its hygroscopic nature. Sold in plastic bottles. It is not suitable for the street because it absorbs moisture quickly.

Castrol SRF is a hyper-exotic and hyper-expensive brake fluid that is generally used by wealthy Porsche owners at track events. I've seen prices of $78 per liter for this stuff. Sold in metal cans. I can't afford this stuff!

Performance Friction High Performance DOT 3 has a good dry boiling point but a crummy wet boiling point. It comes in metal cans which is good for shelf life and sells for $7.87 per 16 ounce container. If you are even considering this fluid, I would go with the cheaper Ford Heavy Duty DOT 3. In either case, change this fluid frequently due to the poor wet boiling point.



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Thanks to Leigh Smith for the following information on the impact of moisture content in brake fluid :

The amount of moisture in brake fluid definitely affects its performance. The big problem is it is absorbs moisture quickly. Over a relatively short period of time brake fluid will absorb moisture from the air. SAE field tests have shown that the average one year old car has 2% moisture in the fluid. A random test of vehicles in the U.S. showed an average water content of 2.6% for vehicles with an average age of 8 years. And 25% of these vehicles had water content greater than 4%.

As water content in brake fluid increases over time, the boiling point decreases. Fluid with a reduced boiling point (or high water content) can create vapor by boiling in the caliper, or wheel cylinder. The result is sudden brake failure. And water in the brake fluid can contribute to corrosion of parts such as steel pistons and ABS modulators.

The end result is even though DOT 3 fluid is "rated" at greater than 401oF, in the typical 3 to 4 year old car with 3 to 4% moisture content, it could boil under 300oF. And if it has got more than 4% moisture, you may as well be running straight water!

Moral: Flush your brake fluid every year or so. But only if you would like it to work well scarcely an inch away from those toasty 500oF rotors on your SHO during a couple of hard stops! Or would you rather have a squishy pedal?

Technical data courtesy of Leica Refractometers. www.leica-ead.com.
 

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Is the general consensus Carbotech for the MK4? I figured I'd better check with some other folks that drive a similarly heavy car. I'm sure my Porterfields are done, saw some smoke coming from them and I'm assuming it's because they've been glazed beyond the point of return (deglazed with sandpaper 2 events ago)
I auto-x most of the time but will track when I can, would like something that is a good in-between, is Carbotech my best bet or should I look at Axxis/Hawk?

Thanks folks,
Brian
 

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i've used 600 in street/track cars for years. But I change fluid every couple events. 3 or 4 mos is as long as fluid ever stays in my cars...
 

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I ran Carbotech 1108s when I had the supra. Then they came out with 1109s but I had switched to my CRX track car and really liked them. Now Carbotech has dropped the 1109s and so I believe now you have the 1108s and the 1110s to chose from. I was getting the Honda's brakes hot enough under braking (swapped engine car) to thermal stress crack rotors in three hours (w/ brake ducts) but the carbotechs have never faded on me. I would recommend the 1110s for the supra. Their service is great too. I needed pads one time for an event and they were out and told me that they would cook up a set that day with extra thick backing plates considering I was maxing out the stock honda brakes (I have done a brake upgrade now and have lots bigger heat sink). That was nice service.

Recently with my 1109s that I have after two track events I was changing out a CV axle and in doing so was swinging the caliper out of the way. Well half the pad fell out. I was WTF? That had never happened. Called them, was in a hurry (another track event), took pictures and they found some 1109 material and made me a pad to replace it. No charge. Turns out the backing plate did have some bend to it so the delamination was probably caused by some object getting into my calipers just right to screw things up and bend it. In other words probably not their fault.

Good people. Great product. Great brake pads.

As to fluid I run Castrol SRF which is great stuff but $$$$. Ron at Discoveryparts.com was telling me at a track event at Barber the other weekend that someone else has come out with a brake fluid that has the same specs as the Castrol SRF but at half the price. I will be trying it when I flush again. Can't remember the damn name of it though.

Barry H.
 

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MR-PUNANNY said:
Hey guys, forgot to update. The red stuff were great around the track, no fade what so ever!
Meh - that just means you weren't driving hard enough........ :1poke: :fawk:
 

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Discussion Starter #18
VickSupra said:
Meh - that just means you weren't driving hard enough........ :1poke: :fawk:
Your right, as the Supra has a mind of its own, i had .2bar the whole day! Fucking car, then on the way home, boost was back to stock .7bar! Go figure!
 

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TAZ2696 said:
Quick question guys do you run XP10 all round or would an XP8 be better at the rear.
With ABS I would guess that it would not be much of an issue. But XP 8 have a little less initial bite and I personally like a little less aggressive pad in the rear espcically now that I have non-abs.
The 1108s can take the heat that is for sure. If it says a few bucks that is good too.
 

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MR-PUNANNY said:
Your right, as the Supra has a mind of its own, i had .2bar the whole day! Fucking car, then on the way home, boost was back to stock .7bar! Go figure!
Whoa - that sucks! You will have a lot more fun with at least .8 bar!
 
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