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Still stand by what I said, having a machine shop do the head start to finish is way smarter than fucking with shims or any of that. Injector pumps go to the injector pump specialist, turbos to the turbo guy cylinder heads to the cylinder head man etc. you see that other guy that blew the head gasket and bolted that shit back together rusted solid? Imagine him installing valve locks , or measuring lash for that matter
You're comparing our OP here, who whipped up an excel spreadsheet to do the math on his valve lash, to a dude who slapped a head on top of rusty cylinder walls with zero cleanup. There's no comparison here. Yes, some folks just need to take it to someone who knows what they're doing.
Other folks can do as good or better as a hobbyist than many professionals do. Are those guys outnumbered by dumbasses? You bet.
Are there still a lot of those really skilled & motivated hobbyists that will do a surprisingly good job simply because they're emotionally invested in THAT project, e.g. THEY GIVE A FUCK? Also yes.


Lapping is only done after the seats are cut and the valves ground, and the last kwik-way valve grinding machine I saw was 10k, and the Serdi valve seat machine is 10x more than that so your garage is either sick, or your end result is a lot shittier than you think cuzzo
The guy you're talking down to is a retired powertrain R&D engineer and project manager that worked at at least two different major automakers. I promise he knows what he's talking about, and I promise that whatever experience or knowledge you've gained by working in a machine shop pales in comparison to his collective experience with exactly these sorts of things.

Another fun fact - regular earf people with a ~$750 Chinese benchtop lathe with a decent set of carbine turning bits can do a surprisingly decent 3-angle or even 5-angle valve jobs with undercuts and the whole nine yards. It just takes a lot longer and some patience since you're carefully measuring each cut and doing them all one at a time.

Yet more fun facts - Hand-lapping valves with valve compound inside the head itself cleans up both the valve face and the valve seat. Don't even need a lathe for that, it just works. Since doing that does remove material that changes valve lash, doing that first before setting valve lash or changing shims etc is well advised.
Will a head with valves and valve seats done by hand like that flow the same as a top-shelf 5 angle job with an undercut? Nope. Will they hold compression and be very equal across all cylinders and run just fine? You bet.

Sophomoric tendencies when you're genuinely trying to help is just fine, and we welcome that. Just be willing to accept correction and understand that you're far from the only person on SF that knows what they're talking about. I am sure there's knowledge you can share that's 100% in your wheelhouse that would benefit a lot of folks on SF. But please make some effort to understand the difference between what you know, and what you think you know.
I was young and sharp and convinced I knew everything once - so I understand where you're coming from a bit more keenly than you might believe. Better to be humble than too proud.
 

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i have been in the MKIII supra game since 94. I can count on one hand and STILL have fingers left overs of how many times a 7M-GTE head had work done with ZERO issues. That count is even less for basic things (at least in the american muscle car world) such as replacing valve seats. On a RARE occasion I have heard (but not seen) of someone doing a 3 angle much less a 5 angle valve job.

honestly, I vaguely recall of only ONE person to have the valve guides replaced successfully (i think it was Adjuster of Bugwugger)

No one wants to do that work but more importantly, no one wants to PAY to have it done right which falls right in line with Wreckless statement of "people being cheap".
 

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Dunno about that. It seems like here on forums as many shops mess up valve jobs as I've seen them come out beautiful. I did my own, including lapping the valves and got a perfectly sealing head with the valve lash set perfectly on all 24. Would a machine shop have done it as well? Dunno. But mine is as perfect as it gets and I have the measurements to prove it, so I sleep well at night... Plus I saved half a grand, at least. And I will never let anybody mess with my valve locks.
i actually appreciated your thread on that with all the pics and the old valve lapping paste was GOLD! :)
 
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btw, i also meant to add.

Toda racing up to this day has limited quantities of the inner shim kits for the 7M head. They include
springs (it is around 50lbs springs instead of 60lbs for the BC, 67lbs for Supertech dual springs or 70lbs for the Ferrea dual springs. I recall George/Sixpack disliked the kit on the springs alone).
Spring seat locators
Spring retainers
inner shimmed buckets
and inner shims.

Font Rectangle Parallel Screenshot Circle


best guess is that they are not produced and just new old stock they still have inventory on.
 
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Figgie - yeah the 100 year old paste was sure the icing on that project - heh. I'm not sure who got more of a kick out of it - me for using it, or my 85 year old buddy who showed up on my front porch with it one morning with a grin on his face. Every time I see him, he gets a twinkle in his eye at the heritage of engine building we shared with that one simple act. Priceless!! That green can of Clover grinding paste still sits proudly on my cluttered work bench and will until I age-out of the game. Probably about 30 years yet and another 10 cars.... Good stuff one and all. So, did we help the OP out here?
 

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Discussion Starter · #26 ·
Guys...I just wanted to know where to buy shims 😂

I actually searched all day online the day after someone suggested something about looking at older japapanese motorcycle shops and found the perfect sizes I need on Ebay of all places. The really tough thing was finding the sizes in variations of 5thou that I needed to nail down the small size variations I found.

The reasoning for the large gaps and inconsistencies was due to me telling my maching shop to sand smooth my cam lobes. Before anyone freaks out, this shop had FANTASTIC reviews (honestly no negatives, just 1 or 2 spam reviews with no reasoning) and this guy has been doing this for 30+ years and has done many 7Ms. He didn't talk me out of doing that to them and leaving the little bit of scoring even though i was trying to be way more thourough reconditioning the engine than i realistically needed to be if i wasn't completely rebuilding the head for much higher horsepower. I was just worried the little scoring on the cams from age was going to ruin my engine. I now know that this was not needed because they werent even all that bad to begin with. My fault here for asking him to do this because I most likely would be replacing 1 shim instead of playing musical shims with many and ordering about 10 new ones.

I appreciate everyone's input nonetheless.
 

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Guys...I just wanted to know where to buy shims 😂

I actually searched all day online the day after someone suggested something about looking at older japapanese motorcycle shops and found the perfect sizes I need on Ebay of all places. The really tough thing was finding the sizes in variations of 5thou that I needed to nail down the small size variations I found.
Just be aware that there is a weight delta between the shim under vs shimless buckets.

Shimless are lighter but you need to know the thickness that you need (micrometer on the current shim on bucket+bucket will get you there unless they are out of spec).
 
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