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Low Mile Supras
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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I guess I’m the rare breed that has never liked the recent rise in values of the Mkiv. Sure you all have one so why does it matter if it makes you richer one day... but as you’ve seen in the last year and 3 months life can be unpredictable, and what if a situation came about where you had to sell yours off and not be able to repurchase an identical example a few years down the road? I feel like that would hit hard to home to the true enthusiast that wouldn’t want any other car if they had a choice. What if you just want one for a neat side project? That’s becoming more and more inconvenient as well. I’m not with these price spikes because I value the car itself more than what its street value is, and the recent trend in prices seems to take away from the ease a true Supra guy once had in getting one of these special cars. Hate on the topic all you want, I just want everyone to know I never think of my car as something to make money off of. I look at it as something of value to myself that fills that automotive hole in my heart.

Discuss.
 

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Cause it’s nice to see something we value “that fills that automotive hole in [our] heart.” Appreciate in monetary value, it’s validation and oh yeah $$$ (not that it’s necessary but still nice).

You pose this question as if we have any real control over the price. It’s supply and demand, and like you said you can’t put a price on something that fills the hole in your heart. This is the whole reason prices are increasing... because people are unwilling to part with them. But fortunately for others some have a buyout price.

Not really sure what the point of your question was. As a few of your points were contradictory.
 

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My Supra I bought 3 years ago. I know I would never be able to afford a Supra in today’s market. I was lucky to be able to find a Supra at my price range just a few minutes away from where I live. Today, an example of my supra goes for almost double the price. Can’t imagine parting with my Supra for profit. Somewhat satisfying the Supra appreciated in value. When I bought the car, I only imagined at could at least make my money back in resale value. Only unforeseen circumstances might make me have to decide if selling is best.
 

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I enjoy my car for what it is...but one of the best things about the MKIV's value going up is that not any drift-hero-wannabe, zip-tie-fixing, stanced-out-retard Joe Schmoe would be able to afford it and rag it out quicker than they can get it down to the next stop light.

That goes for any car that has any legendary heritage. It deserves a different crowd of enthusiast, one with more sense and pride that can actually bring a good image to the cars name.
 

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Just a guy who loves cars
94' Turbo, Targa, 6 spd, Ren Red.
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The Supra isn't the only collectable car whose value has gone up. The ENTIRE collector car market has been on fire. I have two toys and want a air cooled 911, but, guess what, the prices are ridiculously out of bounds right. Go on haggerty or BAT and you can see this. I bought my first Supra, and the only one I still have, 16 years ago. I was a 22 y/o kid and everyone said I was dumb for buying a 94 Toyota on an uncollateralized loan with a 14% interest rate. You want a crazy car, get crazy. Take out a second mortgage and buy one.
 

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I enjoy my car for what it is...but one of the best things about the MKIV's value going up is that not any drift-hero-wannabe, zip-tie-fixing, stanced-out-retard Joe Schmoe would be able to afford it and rag it out quicker than they can get it down to the next stop light.

That goes for any car that has any legendary heritage. It deserves a different crowd of enthusiast, one with more sense and pride that can actually bring a good image to the cars name.
This.
I really don't care about the monetary value. Because like many other MKIV owners, the car is irreplaceable to us. I went through HS & College watching these things dominate the streets of Texas, drooling over them at car meets. Few years ago I was able to pick mine at a very reasonable price. Since then I've turned it into the monster of my dreams.
Sure there's other cars I want, but this one isn't going anywhere.

I'm enjoying the exclusivity & validation that comes with the spike in value. Like OP said, this car is no longer accessible to ricers & your average guy. IMO that's how it should be.
And that goes for every other legendary JDM car from the 90s (NSXs, Skylines, S15s, RX7s)
 

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The fact that you think making $100k on holding a car for 20 years makes someone rich is funny.

Maybe I'm just older, but $100k isn't a lot of money anymore, especially with our decreased buying power as of late.
To add to your point - I googled an S&P500 calculator, and if somebody invested $35k in 1994 (instead of buying a Supra brand new), it amounts to ~$450k today:

261268

I don't view my cars as investments. If I happen to sell it for more than I purchased it for, awesome - I treat that as a bonus

But I hate worrying about "decreasing the value" because of adding mileage or modifying it, etc. I like driving + modifying cars, and I bought cars so I can do that.

I never saw a car I liked and thought "I can't wait until I can have one of those cars to store in my garage one day"


With that said - I understand and appreciate there are folks out there who search for number matching, rare trim level, single owner, documented history museum pieces as collector cars - which is also great so that the next generation can see pristine examples of great cars in the future. But thats just not what I'm into currently.
 

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I guess I’m the rare breed that has never liked the recent rise in values of the Mkiv. Sure you all have one so why does it matter if it makes you richer one day... but as you’ve seen in the last year and 3 months life can be unpredictable, and what if a situation came about where you had to sell yours off and not be able to repurchase an identical example a few years down the road? I feel like that would hit hard to home to the true enthusiast that wouldn’t want any other car if they had a choice. What if you just want one for a neat side project? That’s becoming more and more inconvenient as well. I’m not with these price spikes because I value the car itself more than what it’s street value is, and the recent trend in prices seems to take away from the ease a true Supra guy once had in getting one of these special cars. Hate on the topic all you want, I just want everyone to know I never think of my car as something to make money off of. I look at it as something of value to myself that fills that automotive hole in my heart.

Discuss.

Wholeheartedly agreed.

I could rant about this for a long time, but honestly I believe social media has ruined the car scene and elevated prices are partially driven by that. Once upon a time it was about finding like minded folks with similar interests and enjoying cars as a group. Now it's all about showing off and flexing for IG. Folks with money wanting to show off and flex buy JZA80's and countless other cars just to brag about them on various social media.

Meanwhile pricing is out of reach for most of us regular folks that just want to enjoy the cars and enjoy meeting other enthusiasts.

The other side of the elevated prices, is that there are simply no other new Japanese sports cars worth a fuck anymore. I have high hopes for the 400Z, but its only competition is the sad-sack BRZ/GT86 that just got the most ho-hum boring refresh in the history of sports car refreshes, the ND Miata, a Supra in name only, and the ever fattening-and-more-boring WRX's, and the potent but bloated Civic Type R.
The NSX and GTR are both too expensive for most folks even with a decent income and good credit.

The other issue is that more and more new car purchases are driven by luxury features that are expensive, and makers are very reluctant to offer anything simple anymore.
I have no interest in 'infotainment' - I want some knobs for A/C and heat, an AUX input, and a decent gauge cluster. I can only find that sort of thing in older vehicles, or fleet model trucks and vans.
Manual transmissions are nearly extinct in new cars.

It all means that existing old used models are the only option to sate these desires, and that's a desire apparently more widespread than thought. Combine it with the IG flex kiddies and a COVID-19 powerfucked economy and we've got this existing 6ft long party sized shit sandwich.
 

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Low Mile Supras
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Discussion Starter · #10 · (Edited)
The Supra isn't the only collectable car whose value has gone up. The ENTIRE collector car market has been on fire. I have two toys and want a air cooled 911, but, guess what, the prices are ridiculously out of bounds right. Go on haggerty or BAT and you can see this. I bought my first Supra, and the only one I still have, 16 years ago. I was a 22 y/o kid and everyone said I was dumb for buying a 94 Toyota on an uncollateralized loan with a 14% interest rate. You want a crazy car, get crazy. Take out a second mortgage and buy one.
Very good point about the collector car market as a whole going up. R35 > Mkiv > NSX > 993 etc have climbed greatly. I still wished the Mkiv wasn’t part of that. I also don’t think the Supra had any less interest in public than it does now. The only difference today are the price comments you will hear about IMO. The car has always garnered interest when seen by in person.

To add to your point - I googled an S&P500 calculator, and if somebody invested $35k in 1994 (instead of buying a Supra brand new), it amounts to ~$450k today:

View attachment 261268
To contend 5-6 years ago you could get a top of the line example of Mkiv for around $50k. Now those examples are 2.5 times that price or possibly more. I personally know members that have talked about selling theirs because of what they’re going for now.
 

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Im all for the high prices, makes me feel better about dumping money into it knowing if a rainy day ever comes and I have to sell, Im not selling at a loss for all the money I spent on modifications (because you NEVER get that money back in most cases)
Thats the only way I look at it.
Its a car, I bought it with the mind set of it depreciating, cars aren't investments.
 

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I've spend so much on mine in the last 17 years I'd still lose money in the 2021 market
That's impressive lol.
I'd net like 10-20k depending on the day. Which isn't much better.
I'm a mechanical fuel system & paint correction away from not breaking even 😅
 

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To me the rising prices are bitter sweet as well. It worries me more and more that if something stupid happens like some soccer mom in her retardedly large Palisade backs into it in a parking lot because she had too many Memosas to forget how shitty her life has become then what? Fixing it is becoming more and more challenging. I don't like driving it in traffic, I don't like driving it to large car meets, and I sure as shit can't let it sit outside my peripheral for very long before I begin to worry. The struggle is real.
 

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If you like it, so does someone else. Theres rather niche collector cars that have a slim following that are seeing prices soar... so the mkiv, an iconic japanese sports car that without unapologetic hesitation will never go unnoticed and will rise to nauseating highs.

The collector car market in a nutshell says "fuck your feelings"

Matt
 

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I guess I’m the rare breed that has never liked the recent rise in values of the Mkiv. Sure you all have one so why does it matter if it makes you richer one day... but as you’ve seen in the last year and 3 months life can be unpredictable, and what if a situation came about where you had to sell yours off and not be able to repurchase an identical example a few years down the road? I feel like that would hit hard to home to the true enthusiast that wouldn’t want any other car if they had a choice. What if you just want one for a neat side project? That’s becoming more and more inconvenient as well. I’m not with these price spikes because I value the car itself more than what its street value is, and the recent trend in prices seems to take away from the ease a true Supra guy once had in getting one of these special cars. Hate on the topic all you want, I just want everyone to know I never think of my car as something to make money off of. I look at it as something of value to myself that fills that automotive hole in my heart.

Discuss.
I find the irony in your post almost too much to digest. You looked long and hard for your 17k mile black car, which has never seen the light of day to my knowledge, represented yourself as a collector of sorts and, even now, ask for referrals of low-mile black/black cars in your signature. You don't think your behavior has contributed to the appreciation of MKIV prices in some small way?

You strongly imply you are a "true enthusiast", whereas those who accept and support the increase in the MKIV's fair market value, apparently, are not "true enthusiasts" to your way of thinking. I'm not sure what your definition of a "true enthusiast" is but, for many, it does not include owning a car that is virtually never driven. There will always be a market for the MKIV even if it continues to appreciate in price. Are those that can afford the increased values not "true enthusiasts" because they have the means to purchase the cars at prices we never could have imagined?

In almost all instances, cars are a depreciating asset. When I purchased Blackie new in 1994, I never, ever contemplated that, one day, she, or cars like her, would be considered valuable collectibles under certain circumstances (clean title, all VINs, bone stock and all those types of things). So, even though I would never sell my Supras unless I was forced to, I am fully supportive of the price appreciation we've all witnessed over the last, several years. The price appreciation has prevented, though not completely, the beat to shit cars and owners that eviscerated the USDM MKIII Supras, which took some real effort given how many more MKIIIs were produced than MKIVs.

The MKIV Supra is, arguably, the greatest car ever produced in Japan. It took a while, but the market finally reflects the MKIV's lofty position. And, it's not like the Supra community didn't have a years-long opportunity to buy and sell these cars at extraordinarily reasonable prices. It's unfortunate that some in this thread, and in the community at large, missed out when Supra prices were depressed. All that said, I can't be sympathetic to your plight for the reasons noted and for free market fluctuations that caught some out of pocket. I mean, I would LOVE to have Ferrari 288 GTO. Unfortunately, I can't afford one in the general scheme of things. Maybe, one day, one of those non-enthusiast Ferrari owner will take pity on me and sell one to me at a below market price...


Ken.
 

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Low Mile Supras
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Discussion Starter · #19 · (Edited)
I find the irony in your post almost too much to digest. You looked long and hard for your 17k mile black car, which has never seen the light of day to my knowledge, represented yourself as a collector of sorts and, even now, ask for referrals of low-mile black/black cars in your signature. You don't think your behavior has contributed to the appreciation of MKIV prices in some small way?

You strongly imply you are a "true enthusiast", whereas those who accept and support the increase in the MKIV's fair market value, apparently, are not "true enthusiasts" to your way of thinking. I'm not sure what your definition of a "true enthusiast" is but, for many, it does not include owning a car that is virtually never driven. There will always be a market for the MKIV even if it continues to appreciate in price. Are those that can afford the increased values not "true enthusiasts" because they have the means to purchase the cars at prices we never could have imagined?

In almost all instances, cars are a depreciating asset. When I purchased Blackie new in 1994, I never, ever contemplated that, one day, she, or cars like her, would be considered valuable collectibles under certain circumstances (clean title, all VINs, bone stock and all those types of things). So, even though I would never sell my Supras unless I was forced to, I am fully supportive of the price appreciation we've all witnessed over the last, several years. The price appreciation has prevented, though not completely, the beat to shit cars and owners that eviscerated the USDM MKIII Supras, which took some real effort given how many more MKIIIs were produced than MKIVs.

The MKIV Supra is, arguably, the greatest car ever produced in Japan. It took a while, but the market finally reflects the MKIV's lofty position. And, it's not like the Supra community didn't have a years-long opportunity to buy and sell these cars at extraordinarily reasonable prices. It's unfortunate that some in this thread, and in the community at large, missed out when Supra prices were depressed. All that said, I can't be sympathetic to your plight for the reasons noted and for free market fluctuations that caught some out of pocket. I mean, I would LOVE to have Ferrari 288 GTO. Unfortunately, I can't afford one in the general scheme of things. Maybe, one day, one of those non-enthusiast Ferrari owner will take pity on me and sell one to me at a below market price...


Ken.

There is indeed a lot of irony in my post. I guess I just get the idea that the people that post in this forum including myself are not keen to paying some of the prices that they used to see these cars offered for since people like myself have been following listings for over 10 years. Many members have bought and sold these cars but no longer do because some are becoming larger investments. I personally know members that stopped buying them because they were turned away by the price spikes. I’m still looking for an NA as a daily and adamant on it but seeing some with 180k miles selling for higher prices really gets to me now.

The highest price paid publicly at an auction was apparently a women that was not in the Supra scene at all. She just had the money to burn and got caught up in a bidding war on something to add to a collection of cars that were not Supra related.

I personally don’t drive mine because I like the idea of preserving it due to its uniqueness and rarity, not so I can auction it off one day. It definitely sounds contradictory, I can’t lie, but let’s say they did climb to the prices of some of the classic Ferraris, now your favorite chassis is almost unobtainable in some cases. I have the mindset instilled of the cars being affordable like I always had viewed them as. Ferraris, etc have always been viewed as expensive of course but it just hurts seeing the same car you saw listed at $20,000 for now selling for $35,000 after having even more wear and tear racked onto it.

I do get your argument about being a long term owner that’s gradually invested a lot of money into it over the years and now seeing the value come back and return the favor. I don’t think you would be taking advantage of the value right now auctioning it off so I can’t help but think the spike does nothing for an enthusiast but make it harder to buy another one.
 

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A good friend of mine sold his black Supra a few years ago, heavily modded and when all is said and done he lost money selling it at $75k. Flawless modded car with something over 100k miles at the time. It was worth more but he sold it. I have had my car for just over 19 years. I bought it because I love the Supra in 2002 with 19k miles on the clock. It has over 101k on the clock so far. If someone offered me a few hundred thousand I'd probably sell it but that isn't going to happen. I didn't buy this car for selling it down the road and if I did I would probably never own another one again due to them being out of my budget. Also if I sold it I would have to get something to replace it and other replacement sports cars aren't cheap either.
 
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