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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Crower should make the crank with a 94mm stroke for the same price as any other stroke. Why is the Titan kit more?
 

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That is like asking why Carillo rods are more expensive than eagle rods. They are the same length rod and both H-beams. Part of the price tag is the name and reputation behind it. They can command a premium because people are willing to pay it. If it makes you feel any better, the HKS is more expensive than the titan kit now.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Except that the Titan kit includes the same crank, rods and pistons as the Crower kit...parts from Crower. I should also point out, that Crower pieces are pretty top notch.
 

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According to titan's website, they include carillo h-beam rods. Couldn't tell you about the rest of it as i've never compared them both in person.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
From the MVP site:

Titan Motorsports 3.4L Stroker Kit for 1993-98 Supra

In stock and shipping now!

From the builders of the NHRA Pro Rear-Wheel-Drive (RWD) tandem 2JZ-GTE cars and one of several 8 second Supras comes a kit that is designed from the ground up to unleash the ultimate power and performance combination that the 2JZ-GTE longs for.

Designed in cooperation with Crower, this billet Crower crankshaft, with an 8mm increase in stroke to 94mm, increases the supra displacement in conjunction with the CP pistons by 0.4 liter just like the HKS. Couple the stroke increase with the inclusion of big bore specific-designated CP pistons in 87mm at 8.5:1 compression (various compressions can be ordered) and Titan has created a 3.4 liter building block to unleash new levels of power, quicker turbo spooling and torque that Supra enthusiasts the world over have yearned for.

You will receive: Crower Billet Crankshaft 94mm, CP Pistons 87mm , Upgraded Wrist Pins & Rings, Crower H-Beam Connecting Rods, and SPS Carr Connecting Rod Bolts.


MSRP: $11,000.00
Your Price: $8,349.00
 

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David (NJ) said:
Except that the Titan kit includes the same crank, rods and pistons as the Crower kit...parts from Crower. I should also point out, that Crower pieces are pretty top notch.
Titan was originally working with Crower, however after waiting ages for Cranks and the kits taking forever to get delivered they had to look else where and built their own kit with the help of thier race division. These kits are different. IMO the opton to buy a completed shortblock already assembled make the Titan kit a very nice choice.
 

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Alex D said:
That is like asking why Carillo rods are more expensive than eagle rods. They are the same length rod and both H-beams. Part of the price tag is the name and reputation behind it. They can command a premium because people are willing to pay it. If it makes you feel any better, the HKS is more expensive than the titan kit now.


Carrillo rods cost more than Eagle and Crower rods because they are 10 times better. Why do you think every single quick Supra in the history of Supras uses Carrillo rods?

The HKS kit is $8,399. The Titan kit was $8,349. Titan raised their price to $8,895. So the HKS kit is still cheaper. Our website now reflects the Titan price increase.

Regards,

Dusty
 

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onelove said:
Titan was originally working with Crower, however after waiting ages for Cranks and the kits taking forever to get delivered they had to look else where and built their own kit with the help of thier race division. These kits are different. IMO the opton to buy a completed shortblock already assembled make the Titan kit a very nice choice.

We are currently offering complete shortblock and longblock assemblies featuring either the Titan or HKS stroker motors. We have not added the motors to our website yet as we are finalizing the pricing.

Regards,

Dusty
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 · (Edited)
V8 Killer said:
Carrillo rods cost more than Eagle and Crower rods because they are 10 times better. Why do you think every single quick Supra in the history of Supras uses Carrillo rods?
Eagle is not an equivalent rod. However Crower, Carillo, Lunati, Dyers are all good rods. Once upon a time Carillo was the only game in town. That was a long time ago.

Are these rods 10x better than Eagle? Well, the machining and material control is certainly better. However, many people find the Chinese Eagle, Scat, and Compstar (which is sold by Callies) adequate.

And at most that would about to a $500 difference, since you do sell both. Carrillo doesn't make their I-beam rods with the same pieces as their signature H-beam. Crower does. And the Crower RBT Maxilights may just be a better rod design.

I was expecting an answer such as they are custom CP pistons that match Titan heads (which apparently have unique valve sizes), maybe higher strength material shorter and lighter pins with casidium coating, maybe ultra flat and smooth ring grooves with ultraflat and smooth finish rings. Maybe a Total Seal gapless top ring. Maybe a Napier second ring. Maybe a special design oil ring to deal with high crankcase pressures. Maybe coated bearings (although that would only add $100 or so.)
 

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Crower rods are inferior to Carrillo's H-Beam as well. I have no personal experience with Lunati or Dyers so I can't comment. I am sure that some of Carrillo's higher price is because of their reputation. I am equally sure that some of their higher price is because of their quality. I believe Carrillo H-beam rods are $500 or even $1,000 better than the other rods I do have experience with.

If I snap a rod I also stand a good chance of ruining the rest of the motor by circulating metal. That means new head, new cams, new head components (valves, etc.), new pistons, new bearing, new shortblock, new rods, new studs, new caps, new oil pump, new gaskets, new water pump, and other small items. Not to mention the time and labor.

So for me, I easily choose Carrillo every time as I consider it cheap insurance.

Regarding the Titan stroker, it cost what it cost because that is what Titan wants me to charge. I do not set their pricing and I can not justify to you why they charge what they do. I think posting this question in their section on here would be better than the MVP section. While I do know the answers to your question, I do not feel it is my place to answer to be honest.

I'll show the link to Nero or someone at Titan and have them answer it as they see fit.

Regards,

Dusty
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 · (Edited)
I look forward to their response.

BTW, breaking a rod usually snaps the valve heads, sends sharpnel throughout the intake to the different cylinders, puts the remainder of the rod into the side of the block, twisting the crank. For practical purposes the motor is junk. I haven't seen any of the billet or Carillo forged rods break, unless they were used over their power and engine speed spec.

Have you even had or seen a broken Crower rod?
 

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Believe me I know what a snapped rod does. Seen a few dozen. :)

I have seen multiple broken Crower rods.

Regards,

Dusty
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Which Crower rods failed? How did they fail?
 

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The simple answer is there are all top of the line parts all derived from the race program. Little simple things that can break are tested and the top notch parts like SPS-Carr bolts purchased, these bolts are 100 times the cost of a cheap bolt that's used in many other rods, 1 simple bolt failure and you have a 20k motor that's junk. Dusty's thoughts are right you can damage all that and even more, if your lucky when you break a rod or a piston is damaged all you do is break those parts. We've seen a rod kick out and hit a header, it just as likely could hit an intake manifold, nitrous rails below the manifold and even start a car fire. What's more likely when an engine explodes is also an oil down which can get under the rear tires and wreck the vehicle. The top of the line parts for high HP should be tested. Our parts are available (you can't buy what you can't get) and our parts are tested by almost every Supra race program and people who race on this forum. Those parts cost significantly more and the R&D cost's a lot as well.

I hope this clears things up.

PS: The Titan Stroker will accomodate a full Titan Race head and can be built to your custom spec's for your specific use.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Nero,

Thanks for the input. Agree with the damage, including the car. I understand asking a premium--$1800 in this case--for researching, testing, and assembling the parts.

However the Crower's also come with top bolts, AMS5844. Dusty seems to be saying that the Crower parts are inferior. Inferior to the point of causing an engine failure with all the nasty related results. Is that correct?

Are there any special parts or configuratiuon that are the result of that testing and development?

Thanks,

David
 

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David (NJ) you seem to know your stuff! Comparing SRS-carr bolts to some other bolt. I had no idea...

I learned something valuable from this thread. Actually a few very valuable things. Thank you for your discussion.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Rod bolts are pretty important in a 10,000 rpm 200hp/cylinder engine.

I should point out that Titan has done a lot of homework and sells some pretty good stuff. This thread has actually gone in a direction I didn't expect...discussing connecting rod failure. I was expecting a discussion more centered on pistons, pins, rings, and maybe a rod bolt upgrade. I didn't think connecting rod failure was an issue with either Crower, Carillo, HKS, Jun, etc.
 

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The SPS-Carr bolt seems to be the standard in rod bolts for a steel rod, now how much better/different I can't say because I don't want to risk a catastrophe. Some manufactures of stroker kits rate them at 7500rpm and ours are 9500 there is a big difference here. Also the power level they are tested and rated to are substantially different. If your looking to make 700-800rwhp reliably then I'm sure you'll be fine with the Crower, if your looking to have the capability to race/win and have an efficient high HP combo I'd suggest the extra $ for the Titan kit.

I can't say what the Crower kit will hold as I won't test anything but the best, wrecking our cars in an effort to test is not worth it when you know what the best is. Then there is also actually getting a kit which may not be possible as well without a 8-10 month wait. That's if they actually put your order in.

David (NJ) said:
Nero,

Thanks for the input. Agree with the damage, including the car. I understand asking a premium--$1800 in this case--for researching, testing, and assembling the parts.

However the Crower's also come with top bolts, AMS5844. Dusty seems to be saying that the Crower parts are inferior. Inferior to the point of causing an engine failure with all the nasty related results. Is that correct?

Are there any special parts or configuratiuon that are the result of that testing and development?

Thanks,

David
 
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V8 Killer said:
Carrillo rods cost more than Eagle and Crower rods because they are 10 times better. Why do you think every single quick Supra in the history of Supras uses Carrillo rods?

The HKS kit is $8,399. The Titan kit was $8,349. Titan raised their price to $8,895. So the HKS kit is still cheaper. Our website now reflects the Titan price increase.

Regards,

Dusty
sp auto supra uses crowers rods if im correct ?
 
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