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Arlington's Highway King
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Discussion Starter #1
hey guys im about to put a T88 on my car and im wondering if i should upgrade the intake manifold to go with this new turbo.

if i do should i go with like Virtual Works or Veilside or what?

All your help is appreciated thanks guys.
 

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well it is up to you
the you can use the stock manifold but it is always better to upgrade, about the veilside and the virtual works manifold , well they say that the VW manifold flows better than the Veilside , but then again more peopel have and are happy with there Veilside manifolds i guess it is up to the person and what you are looking for
 

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I have a VW intake and love it. You have to relocate the usual P/S and Battery, but this is the case with most manifolds.

Most of the big guns @ TX where running the VW so I would say that it is the manifold of choice right now.
 

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you could also go with the Q45 throttle body. its a slightly easier mod since you dont have to move everything and costs less. up to you though. the vs manifold does look insane.
 

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there have been no real world testing that put the VS against the VW, because more air flows through the VW doesn't mean it's better than VS. At this point of tuning there is no clear answer, it really depends on your needs and your plan.
 

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finalflash said:
VS if u have money and like to ohh ahh factor
VW if u r more into performance as it is shown to flow better than the VS
That test was invalid. The intake manifold should be mounted to the head to obtain reliable results. As Swifty noted, there have been no back to back tests of any aftermarket manifold to show which one is superior. In discussions of the VS versus the VW, the velocity stacks in the VS have been considered by the ill-informed as a hindrance to air flow when, in fact, the opposite is true.

For those that don't believe this, ask yourself why aspirated racing engines have velocity stacks. And, if you remain an unbeliever, I would refer you to page 26 of the May 2005 edition of Sport Compact Car magazine. You'll see a pic of the intake manifold for the Cosworth XFE Champ car motor (Dave Coleman's monthly Technobabble article is all about this motor). Take a look at the eight velocity stacks. This is for a 2.65L DOHC 72-degree turbocharged V8 that makes a conservative 800 hp at only 6 psi! I recommend reading the entire article. It's educational on several different levels.

Ken.
 
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First off the t88 is a HUGE turbo (exhaust housing wise) and takes years to spool up... Second if you replace the intake mani it will be even more of a slug. Thrid save some money cause the t88 doesnt produce the power to justify a new intake mani so bu a nicer newer turbo and simply bore out the intake mani hell thats what many people have done and works just as well.
 

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EchoDeDupra
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ok... ill make anyone a deal....

if you send me a manifold... I will personally dyno the car with the stock one... change it out on the dyno... then dyno it again.... :)
 

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T-Power
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Supradedupra said:
ok... ill make anyone a deal....

if you send me a manifold... I will personally dyno the car with the stock one... change it out on the dyno... then dyno it again.... :)
It's not that easy.
 

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KenHenderson said:
That test was invalid. The intake manifold should be mounted to the head to obtain reliable results. As Swifty noted, there have been no back to back tests of any aftermarket manifold to show which one is superior. In discussions of the VS versus the VW, the velocity stacks in the VS have been considered by the ill-informed as a hindrance to air flow when, in fact, the opposite is true.

For those that don't believe this, ask yourself why aspirated racing engines have velocity stacks. And, if you remain an unbeliever, I would refer you to page 26 of the May 2005 edition of Sport Compact Car magazine. You'll see a pic of the intake manifold for the Cosworth XFE Champ car motor (Dave Coleman's monthly Technobabble article is all about this motor). Take a look at the eight velocity stacks. This is for a 2.65L DOHC 72-degree turbocharged V8 that makes a conservative 800 hp at only 6 psi! I recommend reading the entire article. It's educational on several different levels.

Ken.
valid point ken..
i know Veilside would not make an inferior product by any means and i know that you run this intake yes?
but whether the performance difference is justifiable for the price is another matter..
but the VS is all quality and in the end that is why u pay the big bucks
 

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Bad Karma Supra
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hardtopsilver said:
First off the t88 is a HUGE turbo (exhaust housing wise) and takes years to spool up... Second if you replace the intake mani it will be even more of a slug. Thrid save some money cause the t88 doesnt produce the power to justify a new intake mani so bu a nicer newer turbo and simply bore out the intake mani hell thats what many people have done and works just as well.
Yet another statement from a bench racer. Please, unless you've ran all of these turbos PERSONALLY - keep quiet.

I will put my T88H car up against yours or anyones, anyday.

See review of 88H that takes "years" to spool: http://www.supraforums.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=175756

There are plenty of new / good turbos out there, but for what the old school T88's go for these days - you cannot beat the power/price ratio.
 

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finalflash said:
valid point ken..
i know Veilside would not make an inferior product by any means and i know that you run this intake yes?
but whether the performance difference is justifiable for the price is another matter..
but the VS is all quality and in the end that is why u pay the big bucks
final,

Yes, I have the VS manifold. I personally think it's the best available, but I have no way to prove it as yet. The VW is also an excellent piece and would be my choice if I didn't have the VS. My proposed intake manifold shootout died for lack of participants and sponsorship, although VS was the first manufacturer to step up to the proposed competition.

In terms of price, most do not conduct an apples to apples comparison when comparing the VS with the competition. With the VS, you get the surgetank with six internal velocity stacks, a 100 mm throttlebody, a lower intake manifold that replaces the OEM piece and a billet high performance fuel rail. With a number of competitors, you must purchase the fuel rail and throttlebody separately and some use the OEM lower intake manifold. With the VS, all you need to do is purchase a throttle cable (there is a Toyota part number for this) and install.

On SF, there is a tendency for some (not saying you are in this group) to repeat what they believe to be the conventional wisdom regarding a certain issue, a real group-think mentality that, often-times, will drown out objective data emanating from other sources. The whole velocity stack discussion has been like this.

Philly Single addresses this in his response to the T88h lag comments made by others and his point, IMO, is very well taken. I've seen some of the results he's posted in the links and, as I've said many times before, it's all about the tuning.....and he clearly has a well-tuned motor. As a matter of fact, for different reasons, he with the T88h and I with respect to big twin-turbo upgrades, have been attempting to correct some of the misinformation put out by so many related to our respective set-ups.......pretty much like pushing a boulder up a mountain, I tell ya.

Ken.
 

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KenHenderson said:
final,

Yes, I have the VS manifold. I personally think it's the best available, but I have no way to prove it as yet. The VW is also an excellent piece and would be my choice if I didn't have the VS. My proposed intake manifold shootout died for lack of participants and sponsorship, although VS was the first manufacturer to step up to the proposed competition.

In terms of price, most do not conduct an apples to apples comparison when comparing the VS with the competition. With the VS, you get the surgetank with six internal velocity stacks, a 100 mm throttlebody, a lower intake manifold that replaces the OEM piece and a billet high performance fuel rail. With a number of competitors, you must purchase the fuel rail and throttlebody separately and some use the OEM lower intake manifold. With the VS, all you need to do is purchase a throttle cable (there is a Toyota part number for this) and install.

On SF, there is a tendency for some (not saying you are in this group) to repeat what they believe to be the conventional wisdom regarding a certain issue, a real group-think mentality that, often-times, will drown out subjective data emanating from other sources. The whole velocity stack discussion has been like this.

Philly Single addresses this in his response to the T88h lag comments made by others and his point, IMO, is very well taken. I've seen some of the results he's posted in the links and, as I've said many times before, it's all about the tuning.....and he clearly has a well-tuned motor. As a matter of fact, for different reasons, he with the T88h and I with respect to big twin-turbo upgrades, have been attempting to correct some of the misinformation put out by so many related to our respective set-ups.......pretty much like pushing a boulder up a mountain, I tell ya.

Ken.

wise words Ken..

and i know what mean when you talk about perceptions about issues on SF and how everyone seems to want to jump on the bandwagon.
i personally would of loved to see a comparison shootout with the VS and VW but i think the best thing to do in the absence of a comparative test is to take the words and view of the people who actually HAVE and RUN the product rather than reading speculation and heresay..
 

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EDIT: I meant "objective" data rather than "subjective". Corrected it.

Ken.
 

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Philly Single said:
Yet another statement from a bench racer. Please, unless you've ran all of these turbos PERSONALLY - keep quiet.

I will put my T88H car up against yours or anyones, anyday.

See review of 88H that takes "years" to spool: http://www.supraforums.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=175756

There are plenty of new / good turbos out there, but for what the old school T88's go for these days - you cannot beat the power/price ratio.

:bigthumb: :bigok:
 

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SUPRAS FOR LIFE
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i myself have a t78 in my supra..n i hate when people say..that old school........old school or new school...it works n works very well....that all that matters...n t88 i think is a good turbo...great for amazing top end power.....n as far as intake manifold goes..i think sound performance's gen2 is the bang for the buck....take a look at peter blach's car.....vw n veilside are about 21/2 times more expensive and they do the same shyt........look into the sp's gen2 man...worth every penny!!
 
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I would upgrade the intake manifold after I port the head. This is how I would do it because I dont think the stock intake manifold poss that big of a restriction with a stock head. But thats just me.

I have a t78 also. Its a good turbo. On pump it pulls ok. Doesnt really feel fast for me. Need race gas, DRs, and a wide open road for some fun. Used to drive a t88h 6spd. Although it pulled hard when in boost, the rest of the time sucked. Lag was pretty bad for me driving around town. Most of the time if I floor it in at say, 1st at 2500rpm, it will take a few seconds at least to get going. I dont like to brake boost all the time when I'm just driving around town. And the car drives really slow in stop and go traffic and loud too, stock cars had more lowend and will easily pull away from me after the light greens. So yeah, the t88h was too big of a turbo for me. The auto guys get much less lag from running a high stall but they no lowend either.
 

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A T-88 would be better suited to receive a Q45 TB rather than an intake manifold change. A ported stoock manifold will get you around 900rwhp with the stock TB still attached. With a Q45, who knows what it would be.

Ken, I'll be looking for that article when I go pick up the SCC this week. I'm interested in another view of the velocity stack arguement since my JUN manifold has them installed.

Eric
 
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