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MKIII
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58 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
As per the title, 1jz 2jz or stick with the 7mgte. What did you choose and why did you choose it? Not looking in a debate as to why others chose what they did I just really want to know how people feel about their choice.

Background to my question: I have a 89 7mgte recently acquired which I am lead to believe has a BHG (mysteriously vanishing coolant). As of right now with coolant being the only notable symptom it seems as everything else is still in good shape. Therefore I am posed with a couple options; 1. Drive it until it dies and swap 2j/1j. 2. Drive it until it dies and rebuild the 7m. 3. Pull the motor now before it dies deck it and mhg, ARP and call it good. 4. Why stop at the HG, the motor is out may as well get a new crank rods and pistons.

My ultimate goal is pump gas 500hp (91 octane is all that's available to me) Current turbo t04-e 60-1 boss Sr. Ideally not buying a new turbo and as far as I know that turbo would be OK ish on a 2j/1j. I simply can't decide the route to take.

A simple HG job is substantially less coat than a motor swap or even a build up, but this is most likely not the best plan to hit 500 reliably on an old motor that has likely been beat up.

As far as I am concerned a proper build on a 7m is more than reliable enough for 500.

1jz isn't really much of an upgrade (personal feeling) however came with a r154 thus being cheaper than a 2j while 500hp is still easily achievable. Not to mention I could also attain a spare r154 in the process.

2jz I feel would be the most expensive, and don't see a vast improvement over the 1j other than 0.5L


TLDR: do I prevent my motor from dying or do I blow it up and swap OR do I blow it up and rebuild all of it.

P. S: it's a toy and not my means of transportation in any way but that doesn't mean I don't want to drive it. Money is a slight concern but labour cost is mostly not involved - 85% all parts except of course machine work and shit I'm too lazy to do (ie electrical)
 

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Unlimited Time Attack A70
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But really Cuz jz is a better design and 500 is easily obtainable and way more reliable and you can Rev to the moon. Not to mention they're sleek as fuck
 

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I differ. Id prefer a brand new freshly built 7m. In the long run it'll be much cheaper. I love all 3 motors equally due to their beautiful design but I have a 7m so if it were my choice is build on that. It has lots of potential and torque levels to rip the gravel from the streets.
 

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2JZ
By the time you spend the money to build a 7M to reliably hold 500 hp you could have purchased a 2JZ and mods that handles 500 hp easily.
 

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Any JZ motor is a huge upgrade in reliability and ease of ownership. If you want to enjoy the car, put a JZ motor in it. If you want a hobby, build the 7M.
 

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Premium Member
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5,301 Posts
2JZ
By the time you spend the money to build a 7M to reliably hold 500 hp you could have purchased a 2JZ and mods that handles 500 hp easily.
Yeah I'm gonna have to go ahead and disagree with you there. My first MK3 had a JDM 7M in it with only a headgasket and ARP bolts being the modifications to the engine itself. It made well over 400rwhp for several years with not a single hiccup. Anything over 420rwhp is over 500 crank HP. Mine only gave up when I put a much bigger turbo and fuel system on it. It made 540rwhp for about 6 months before #1 piston let go. It was 100% stock internal engine and head minus the MHG and bolts.

When I bought my current car, it had no drivetrain in it. However, it did come with one of the last known 7M shortblocks to have been brought over to the US. That made my decision very easy. The previous owner had already bought thousands of dollars in other parts to get this car to over 420rwhp without issue so I again only put a MHG and bolts in it and made sure the surfaces were good and prepped.

I have absolutely zero doubt or fear about running the car like this and it will be fine for me or any future owner for a long time with proper maintenance. Admittedly I am starting with a true zero mile engine that is perfect and pristine, but my last one had 40k or so on it when I started and with proper maintenance, it did fine too. Many 7M's are of course getting way up there in age and abuse and many people are just throwing band aid's on them and then throwing fuel and turbos at them like they are perfect. Many people are too lazy to spend the extra time that an old or ailing engine needs.

I have done all the labor with the help of friends, but I have a total of just over 10k in the entire car including machine work and all the extra things I have replaced and upgraded along the way. I didn't want to swap it and probably would have rebuilt the old engine if I hadn't had a new one available. In 15 years of owning, driving, racing, and working on the 7M, the only true issues I have had were my own fault and would have happened regardless of engine (didn't seat oil dipstick, wiped out rod bearing being the biggest). I have not had the bad luck that some have had with this engine, but I don't mind taking the time and little extra money to make it right and make it as reliable as it can be.
 

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Yeah I'm gonna have to go ahead and disagree with you there. My first MK3 had a JDM 7M in it with only a headgasket and ARP bolts being the modifications to the engine itself. It made well over 400rwhp for several years with not a single hiccup. Anything over 420rwhp is over 500 crank HP. Mine only gave up when I put a much bigger turbo and fuel system on it. It made 540rwhp for about 6 months before #1 piston let go. It was 100% stock internal engine and head minus the MHG and bolts.

When I bought my current car, it had no drivetrain in it. However, it did come with one of the last known 7M shortblocks to have been brought over to the US. That made my decision very easy. The previous owner had already bought thousands of dollars in other parts to get this car to over 420rwhp without issue so I again only put a MHG and bolts in it and made sure the surfaces were good and prepped.

I have absolutely zero doubt or fear about running the car like this and it will be fine for me or any future owner for a long time with proper maintenance. Admittedly I am starting with a true zero mile engine that is perfect and pristine, but my last one had 40k or so on it when I started and with proper maintenance, it did fine too. Many 7M's are of course getting way up there in age and abuse and many people are just throwing band aid's on them and then throwing fuel and turbos at them like they are perfect. Many people are too lazy to spend the extra time that an old or ailing engine needs.

I have done all the labor with the help of friends, but I have a total of just over 10k in the entire car including machine work and all the extra things I have replaced and upgraded along the way. I didn't want to swap it and probably would have rebuilt the old engine if I hadn't had a new one available. In 15 years of owning, driving, racing, and working on the 7M, the only true issues I have had were my own fault and would have happened regardless of engine (didn't seat oil dipstick, wiped out rod bearing being the biggest). I have not had the bad luck that some have had with this engine, but I don't mind taking the time and little extra money to make it right and make it as reliable as it can be.
Unless you care to explain how you magically gained 200hp+ with only a headgasket and stud kit, I am calling bull shit on your 420 hp claim with an NA motor. Stock only came out with ~200hp crank.
Not knocking the 7M platform. Great engine for what it is. Not saying it can't be made into a reliable high output motor. Just for the same money, the 2J will go farther.

Sent from my 6045O using Tapatalk
 

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Do You Even HKS, Bro?!?
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1,493 Posts
Unless you care to explain how you magically gained 200hp+ with only a headgasket and stud kit, I am calling bull shit on your 420 hp claim with an NA motor. Stock only came out with ~200hp crank.
Please reread his post.
 

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Unlimited Time Attack A70
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Unless you care to explain how you magically gained 200hp+ with only a headgasket and stud kit, I am calling bull shit on your 420 hp claim with an NA motor. Stock only came out with ~200hp crank.
huh
 

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Premium Member
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5,301 Posts
Unless you care to explain how you magically gained 200hp+ with only a headgasket and stud kit, I am calling bull shit on your 420 hp claim with an NA motor. Stock only came out with ~200hp crank.
Not knocking the 7M platform. Great engine for what it is. Not saying it can't be made into a reliable high output motor. Just for the same money, the 2J will go farther.
Did you just not READ what I posted? I said the only thing done INTERNALLY to the motor was headgasket and bolts. Where did I say that is all the mods I have to produce 500 crank HP? And where did I say it was a N/A motor?

You can rebuild a 7M to factory spec, put a good MHG on it, rebuild the head, and do the fuel and turbo mods and make 400+ rwhp for less than a properly done swap that will make the same power. I'm sure everyone knows someone that knows someone's cousin that did it for 1,000 bucks, but when it costs upwards of 2-3k for an engine alone before doing all the seals and gaskets and before all the parts you need to swap it and before all the fuel and turbo upgrades you need, I'm not seeing how you can make 500hp for less out of a swap than you can out of a 2jz like you already said. I've worked on and worked for some of the biggest names in the Supra business and know what it costs to do that kind of stuff. I can have a 7M properly rebuilt and add supporting mods to for less than a swap.

In no way am I knocking or beating down anyone who has done or prefers the swap. More power to you and they are great engines! Many of us are quick to disregard someone who doesn't share our same opinions or beliefs on a particular subject, this one included. I prefer the engine it came with. My 2psi.
 

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Unlimited Time Attack A70
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did you just not read what i posted? I said the only thing done internally to the motor was headgasket and bolts. Where did i say that is all the mods i have to produce 500 crank hp? And where did i say it was a n/a motor?

You can rebuild a 7m to factory spec, put a good mhg on it, rebuild the head, and do the fuel and turbo mods and make 400+ rwhp for less than a properly done swap that will make the same power. I'm sure everyone knows someone that knows someone's cousin that did it for 1,000 bucks, but when it costs upwards of 2-3k for an engine alone before doing all the seals and gaskets and before all the parts you need to swap it and before all the fuel and turbo upgrades you need, i'm not seeing how you can make 500hp for less out of a swap than you can out of a 2jz like you already said. I've worked on and worked for some of the biggest names in the supra business and know what it costs to do that kind of stuff. I can have a 7m properly rebuilt and add supporting mods to for less than a swap.

In no way am i knocking or beating down anyone who has done or prefers the swap. More power to you and they are great engines! Many of us are quick to disregard someone who doesn't share our same opinions or beliefs on a particular subject, this one included. I prefer the engine it came with. My 2psi.

my 2psi lol
 

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Well I screwed the pooch and misread everything in a hurry on my phone. Apologies to Trent for totally misreading more than I should have.
 

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look, 2jz is great. 1jz is great 7m is great. They will all make that power without putting much effort into them. But here's reality. Reliable power=$$$$$ you want a 7m, 2j, or 1j to make 500 hp? Fine, I hope you have the finances to support that. People who own a 1jz or 2jz put in just as much money into their brother 7m owners. People just tend to half fast a 7m and say "whoops it blew up, stupid unreliable Toyota." If some 7m owners (I'm not talking about anyone in particular so no harsh feelings) actually took the patience and time and money to do what is needed to their 7m there would be absolutely no issues whaysoever. I mean how many people know someone whose had 180kmiles on their 7m and just decided now to put in a fresh turbo and turn the boost up? I could name a few and results were not pretty. It's an old motor, but If refurbished and rebuilt with fresh new parts I guarantee that it will withstand power levels you wouldn't believe to be possible. So in my personal preference, stick with the 7m and refresh it and build it from scratch, you'd be surprised what it can do. As for the 2j, it's fantastic, but extremely costly especially if you want to do the swap. I've thought about it and end cost ran at around 10k including the tranny, motor and specific swap parts. I said no way lol. as for 1j, I never understood the logic of putting a smaller engine in a heavy ass car. Unless you make a 7m made strictly out of carbon fiber where it only weighs 2500lbs, I just don't get it. No hate intended. Everyone's entitled to their own opinions and facts. I'm just speaking from experience. My 7m makes about 400whp now and I've only spent about 5k into the engine and transmission. It takes the power like a champ and is hungry for more. Just make sure she's full of oil at all times and she'll be fine.
 

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I'm not sure what expenses are involved with a 2JZ swap. But if you can do it fairly cheap with a low mile JDM 2JZ, that's what I would do. Mainly because of better head flow and head gasket sealing.

With that said, I made 400-511rwhp for several years with a stock rebuilt 7M on the stock ecu. And I know for a fact that it's not very expensive to build a 7M and make good power reliably.
I'm still running a built 7M today with a PT6262 turbo and a simple VPC/AFC for tuning. Oh yeah, I also rev it to 7400 rpm's
 
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