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supra7
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Zupra is still sitting on used car lot...rotors are rusting up now from all the sitting. It will go to auction soon due to no interest in it
 

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Hardcore Night Warrior
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I think in time it probably will be appreciated later on. But it will always have the sTigma.
I disagree. Appreciated for what? The latter obfuscates the former. I think the roots of the Zupra stigmatize current and future appreciation.
 

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Moderator
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Is Anyone Actually Buying The New Toyota Supra?



In the comments section I wrote...

It has two main problems.

#1 The Dealers - $15k-$20k markups are common. I’ve watched a few sit on the lot because of that. They treat it like it’s some limited production Pagani. They won’t let you sit in it, had to unlock the car and baby sit you while you poke around it. I knew more about the car than the idiot dealership dude and let them know I’ve driven rarer and more powerful cars (LFA for example) yet I can’t sit in their freakin BMW parts bin special? They had the nerve to say (probably joking I guess) so are you going to trade in yours (‘97 Supra Turbo). I turned that one around and said how much above the free Supra are you going to give me if I trade it in. (I won’t). I told them where they can stick the markup and the attitude.

#2 It’s Not A Supra! - Nothing Toyota about it besides “the tuning”. So it’s a BMW “Tuned By Toyota”. Fake scoops that do nothing. Fake stories from Tada to justify the fakery. Watching Toyota “Yes Men” gush over what is essentially a competitors car in drag. Knowing that Toyota could have done it in-house but chose not to. The attitude sent back by Toyota belittling the actual Supra owners and actual would-be future Supra owners on their opinions about what the car should be. When the BMW rumors popped up we were quick to say don’t do it, don’t build it or at the very least don’t call it a Supra, call it something else. They flat out ignored us because they “know better”. I do not see my next car as a Toyota and quite possibly a Lexus either. They have hurt the loyalty to the brand with the enthusiasts. May the new Supra’s rot in the dealer lots they are sitting in. Between the stealership attitudes and Toyota’s I have no excitement for their brands.
 

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Also, If you look on eBay for sold cars from 2019. Supra sold as many as Ford Mustang did on eBay in October. Way more than Z4s, Nissan GT-Rs, BMW M3, Porsche Cayman, BMW M2, Kia Stinger, Mazda Miata, and etc.

It does not mean much, but it all adds up in the right direction.

My dealer in New Jersey sells 1 or 2 per month, because that's how many he has. He would sell more if he had more, or if he lowered the mark up. There are 1,200 Toyota dealers in USA. 1 per month per dealer is a lot of cars.
 

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iSPOOL
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Has anyone found an actual target number Toyota anticipates to sell for its first year offering?
The only number I have seen from spokespersons is they wish to sell all 1,500 Launch Edition models before the end of 2019. Personally I don't know if they want to project a target number for multiple reasons.
 

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Also, If you look on eBay for sold cars from 2019. Supra sold as many as Ford Mustang did on eBay in October. Way more than Z4s, Nissan GT-Rs, BMW M3, Porsche Cayman, BMW M2, Kia Stinger, Mazda Miata, and etc.

It does not mean much, but it all adds up in the right direction.
I debunked your last article now you're talking about eBay? Now you're just trolling. You'll have to explain that one for me.

That tells me one of two things:

1. People are looking to unload a purchase they regret.
2. Dealerships cant unload the vehicles in their dealership so they're using alternative means.

My dealer in New Jersey sells 1 or 2 per month, because that's how many he has. He would sell more if he had more, or if he lowered the mark up. There are 1,200 Toyota dealers in USA. 1 per month per dealer is a lot of cars.
You know your dealer can work a deal with a seperate dealership right? Especially if they have the buyers. Why isnt the Supra sold out if thats the case? They're trying to create the illusion of scarcity. Even then, plenty of people here can source a MSRP Supra from plenty of dealers...
 

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I debunked your last article
You did not debunk anything. Those are official sale numbers from Toyota for USA (as I posted in the link):

July 320
August 643
September 514

In case you don't agree with those numbers, you can always file a complain with FBI for manipulation, or report them to BBB, and see if they help you debunk that.

If we include October, we could be up to 2,000 cars. That's on pace to triple MKIV sales. Time will tell if it keeps going.

And to the math genius who says we have 2 billion people more now than in 1993. Maybe we do, but percentage wise it's not a smart statement to make if you prorate the sale and people numbers.

And in case you are wondering, those 2 billion people "more" is in undeveloped countries where there will never be a Supra.
 

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iSPOOL
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You did not debunk anything. Those are official sale numbers from Toyota for USA (as I posted in the link):

July 320
August 643
September 514

In case you don't agree with those numbers, you can always file a complain with FBI for manipulation, or report them to BBB, and see if they help you debunk that.

If we include October, we could be up to 2,000 cars. That's on pace to triple MKIV sales. Time will tell if it keeps going.

And to the math genius who says we have 2 billion people more now than in 1993. Maybe we do, but percentage wise it's not a smart statement to make if you prorate the sale and people numbers.

And in case you are wondering, those 2 billion people "more" is in undeveloped countries where there will never be a Supra.
While it's attractive to compare the Supra 1993 vs 2020 simply due to the name, we should also take into account a few more scenarios:
A.) 1993 vs 2020 with no other factors.

B.) Inflation cost of sticker price $33,900-$50,000 in 1993 Vs $49,990-$55,250 in 2019.

C.) Since 1993 wasn't a revival or name split year, would 1986 vs 2020 be more accurate since that was the year the Supra dropped the Celica name.

D.) Compare the 2020 version to the 2006 Porsche Cayman sales numbers (initial year of release). The benchmark vehicle to the 2020 Zupra.
____
A.) If we are just comparing the nameplates at face value, the 2020 versions sales (roughly estimated pace to 6,000 units sold) are exceeding that of the 1993 Supra (less than 2,900 sold).

B.) If we add inflation the 1993 Supra the prices would range from $60,000-$88,000 in 2019. Far above the $49,990-55,290 of 2019 version. I'm sure a math wizard could run calculation to reflect the potential increase/decrease in sales if they were priced similarly.

C.) 1986 Supra retail was $19,000-$23,000 which roughly translates to buying power of $44,000-$54,000 in 2019(this is the closest comparison in price). It sold over 33,000 models, in this comparison the 2020 version won't come close. Not sure how many were turbo model but again different time in American consumerism where cars ruled the road and not SUVS, pickups, and crossovers.

D.) 2006 Porsche Cayman US sales eclipsed 7,000+units sold. 2020 Zupra sales are too early to truly tell but based on the 3 months sales above could fall between 5,500-7,500 units sold. The Porsche Cayman initial year starting price of $58,900 in 2006 (roughly $75,000 in 2019) also exceeds the 2020 Zupra price so another adjustment would be warranted.

US Population increased from 260 million to 329 million (I feel a Bill Burr rant brewing looking at this number lmao😂). But that number doesn't reflect those of buying age in the middle to upper class.

For me the first year US sales of the 2020 Zupra would need to exceed 8,000 in 12 months to be deemed successful. We don't know what Toyota's sales goals are except they want the Launch Editions sold by December 2019.

Those are the numbers I look at that appear fair. It may be different for other but that's my thought process for an apples to apples comparison.
 

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Super Moderator
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Has anyone found an actual target number Toyota anticipates to sell for its first year offering?
The only number I have seen from spokespersons is they wish to sell all 1,500 Launch Edition models before the end of 2019. Personally I don't know if they want to project a target number for multiple reasons.
Shady,

I previously posted that Toyota's first year sales goal for the MKV was 12,000 cars. That number, as I recall, came from an official source. I read it on SF in one of the innumerable MKV threads regarding this car.

At the time, I took note of it because I thought to myself, "Toyota is proposing to sell as many MKVs in its first year as it sold MKIVs in five years". That, to me, signified that the marketing budget for the MKV would be several orders of magnitude greater than that of the MKIV even accounting for inflation.

The only thing I do not recall definitively is whether or not the sales goal was for the USDM only or for all of North America.


Ken.
 

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Discussion Starter #131
In my normal Craigslist snooping for Supra parts, I had seen this particular Zupr4 listed for quite a while. All with the typical "one of a kind, new Supra, collectors item, fast and furious" bullshit.
This is a partial quote of mine ..?
 

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iSPOOL
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It's not an auction, but at the Canadian International Auto Show there's going to be a raffle for charity where someone is going to win 2 GR Supras.

 

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...pop the hood!
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^ so you get one zupr4 and a parts car with it?
 

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^ so you get one zupr4 and a parts car with it?
They've finally figured out how to make the car reliable, you need two of them to last as long as a regular car.
 

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I think the sales could be lower for November. Nothing is selling lately across the retail sector.
 
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