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Discussion Starter #1
I have no idea if these brakes are worth a damn, but the weight reduction is simply jaw dropping amazing. Check them out here:

http://www.zmibrakes.com/home.html

They have a MKIV kit available (not cheap, but very high tech). I'd love to hear from anyone that has experience with these or knows more about them. Thanks.
 
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Steve,

I value my life a little bit too much to be using that POS.

Those brakes (if you can call it that) looks to be solid (no cooling vanes) and the swept area looks be be very limited.

Save your money (and your life) by staying clear of it.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Who passed judgment?

Do you have anything to say about these brakes? If so, please speak up. It's not like anyone is going to spend $3800 without hearing an awful lot about the product (and I wrote the company with some specific questions already).

Steve T.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
This product does seem like a case of "if it seems too good to be true, it probably is", but I must know more about it. :)

Steve T.
 
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BXR SUPRA said:
Exactly what information did they give you? Seems like people are a little to quick to pass judgement.
Your statement seems to defend the product. I would like to hear what you'd have to say about this product (I'm still not going to call it brakes :)).
 

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I am not going to defend the "brakes" or POS (for you BrianJ) because I have never used them. On the other hand, I don't want to dismiss the brakes untill they have been tested.

*********From ZMI***********
ZMI uses aerospace titanium for the rotor because of its strength, heat dispersion properties and lightweight. In order to build the ultimate rotor we didn't stop there. A patented design is then water-jetted into the titanium creating a slotted blade rotor. This design allows the titanium to expand in such a way that it turbulates the air creating an "active cooling" effect to speed up heat dissipation and prevent brake fade. Also, after the rotor is cut, a patented "chemical etching" process takes place which hardens the titanium and helps increase titanium's coefficient of friction to the other materials i.e. your brake pads to ensure maximum stopping power.



Rotors are only part of the equation; we then turned our engineering focus on creating a better performing caliper. Using a blade rotor, there is less area to bridge, which makes for less material to be used. Not only does this make the caliper lighter but also stronger and stiffer than other calipers having to bridge over conventional rotors. Also, all ZMI calipers have internal porting for brake fluid transfer. No exterior steel lines that go from side to side. These lines can be damaged from wheel changes or road debris causing decreased caliper performance. Using internal porting, you will have worry free performance stop after stop.



With weight reductions of both the rotor and the caliper, we can greatly reduce the amount of un-sprung weight on your vehicle. When you reduce the amount of un-sprung your vehicle will respond quicker and handle better. There is less weight for your suspension to move up and down, less weight = faster reaction times.




 

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Discussion Starter #10
Yeah, ZMI definitely makes this thing sound good...but we need to hear from those who have actually tried it. The way I see it, any manufacturer is going to do one hell of a job to market/sell their product. The weight reduction is so exceptional on this product that I'm really hoping that it delivers the goods. :)

Steve T.
 
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BXR SUPRA said:
I am not going to defend the "brakes" or POS (for you BrianJ) because I have never used them. On the other hand, I don't want to dismiss the brakes untill they have been tested.

*********From ZMI***********
ZMI uses aerospace titanium for the rotor because of its strength, heat dispersion properties and lightweight. In order to build the ultimate rotor we didn't stop there. A patented design is then water-jetted into the titanium creating a slotted blade rotor. This design allows the titanium to expand in such a way that it turbulates the air creating an "active cooling" effect to speed up heat dissipation and prevent brake fade. Also, after the rotor is cut, a patented "chemical etching" process takes place which hardens the titanium and helps increase titanium's coefficient of friction to the other materials i.e. your brake pads to ensure maximum stopping power.



Rotors are only part of the equation; we then turned our engineering focus on creating a better performing caliper. Using a blade rotor, there is less area to bridge, which makes for less material to be used. Not only does this make the caliper lighter but also stronger and stiffer than other calipers having to bridge over conventional rotors. Also, all ZMI calipers have internal porting for brake fluid transfer. No exterior steel lines that go from side to side. These lines can be damaged from wheel changes or road debris causing decreased caliper performance. Using internal porting, you will have worry free performance stop after stop.



With weight reductions of both the rotor and the caliper, we can greatly reduce the amount of un-sprung weight on your vehicle. When you reduce the amount of un-sprung your vehicle will respond quicker and handle better. There is less weight for your suspension to move up and down, less weight = faster reaction times.




Whoever believes that mumbo jumbo, need to be slapped upside the head. Ways to stop faster are to have much swept area as possible with effiecient cooling (among many things).

I'm done trying to save people money and most importantly their lives (& lives of others on the road), just to have someone state that we shouldn't dismiss something so obvious.

BTW, BXR SUPRA, did you know that titanium dust is flammable? Also, maybe you should read upon that site to see what purpose the slots serve where the brake pads don't contact the rotor.

PS. Make sure you buy some parachutes, if you plan on buying this product (I'm still not calling it brakes :)).
 

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Hey guys I am NOT buying the brakes (pos) or all the theory. I am very aware of the marketing aspect of any product. I just want to see these tested.

Whats wrong with thinking outside the box?
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I'd still like to know how well these brakes actually work. I know of at least one person that is buying them (not for a Supra), but they're not a friend or anything. Very curious to see what they experience though.

Steve T.
 

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Steve,

I am not a brake expert by any means, but I have significant doubts about this product. I stipulate that it MAY be lighter, but I don't know how you get more braking power with less swept area and a rotor that is significantly thinner than OEM (two reasons why it should be lighter). My guess is that you MIGHT reduce unsprung weight (no way to know for sure without a direct comparison to the OEM system) but I'm guessing that you will give up a lot of braking and that fade will be an issue.

I'm all for fresh ideas, but in an area so important, someone is going to have to prove to me beyond a shadow of a doubt that Brembo, AP, Alcon, StopTech and Baer, to name a few, have it all wrong and these guys just came up with a break-through system that puts the other guys in the oblsolete tank. You know I'm a big auto racing fan and I always pay attention to the brake systems the various cars have. Even though different manufacturers have different approaches to the same issues, the brake design principles (I'm excluding the latest brake by wire systems Mercedes has installed on some AMG models) don't vary much. Brembo has significant market share in the high-performance passenger vehicle market and is the dominant manufacturer in the highest levels of various forms of racing (IRL, Champ, NASCAR Winston Cup, ALMS and, of course, F-1). In a money-no-object case like F-1, you'd think an idea like this would have taken root if it had merit.

As cars get heavier and heavier, braking distances get shorter and shorter. We now have mini-vans stopping as well (one or two 60-0 stops) as full-blown sports cars from the late 80s/very early 90s. The OEM suppliers and aftermarket guys pretty much have this area licked, especially if the OEM bean counters don't have as much impact as in the past. I'd make sure these guys had independent test data to back up their claims. Since you wrote to them already, ask them if they can match this:

1997 Car and Driver "10 Best" issue (Best Brakes 70-0) Supra Turbo Automatic: 149 feet. Or this:

Motor Trend "Top Gun" Issue (Naming the Supra as its new Top Gun) 60-0 Stopping Distance: 109 feet.

Let me know what you find out.

Ken (Man of Few Words) Henderson
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Ken,

Another well thought out reply...I don't think we could ever expect anything else from you! ;)

Anyway, point well taken about the existing brake technology and applications of it in both racing and the aftermarket. One thing that has me interested about stuff like this ZMI kit is that occasionally new technology will "trickle down" to the market that was derived in either racing or very exotic technology. A case of this is the ceramic brake rotors that Porsche currently makes for their 911 GT2 car, and make available as options for the 911 Turbo.

However, that being said...I've NEVER heard of titanium rotors, and have only seen these types of blade style rotors on motorcycles. I do have a lot of skepticism about this product, but would love to know more on the off chance that it is actually the real deal. The unsprung weight savings are phenomenal, but you're absolutely correct to point out that braking upgrades are a mod that requires extreme caution and careful selection. I'll let everyone know what I find out regarding this...if anything (they have yet to respond to my inquiry so far). :)

Steve T.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
One of the ZMI reps has replied to me, and confirmed all the weights of the system. Now I'm trying to shift the conversation over to the performance side, and have even provided him with a link to this thread so he could reply for himself. I offered to post anything on his behalf too, if that is something he'd like to do. Stay tuned for more information guys. :)

Steve T.
 
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Hey Guys
I found them locally about 1 month ago, they are about 20 minutes from me. I have been to busy with my current car to get by there. I email them to find what is are needed for wholesale. Hopefully I will be able to get by there and check them out in person as the warranties are great, just the pricing is high.
Jason
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Thanks Jason...hopefully there is more that you can learn about them and their products. :)

Steve T.
 
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